- Oct 9, 1999
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http://www.ocworkbench.com/index.stm
What is up with manufacturers screwing us over with the position of the floppy?
What is up with manufacturers screwing us over with the position of the floppy?
New ECS K7S6A mainboard shot
- Thread starter NFS4
- Start date
I kind of wish we would get rid of that floppy connector altogether. The floppy cable always gets in my way. I wish I could find a floppy cable that doesn't have connectors for 2 floppies -- no one uses 2 floppies anymore. I just want a floppy cable that has 1 connector.
I wish they would replace the floppy connector with either another IDE connector or an internal USB connector -- and we would switch to using a USB or IDE based floppy drive.
I wish they would replace the floppy connector with either another IDE connector or an internal USB connector -- and we would switch to using a USB or IDE based floppy drive.
Adul
Elite Member
it is still an ecs. Proceed wth caution.
has for the floppy cable, just clip the uneeded portion off.
has for the floppy cable, just clip the uneeded portion off.
Adul
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
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<< And if it's anything like K7S5A, it will be money WELL spent. >>
Yeah right
It's NOT money well spent when it screws up on you. Here is my EXACT issue IN FULL that I had with the motherboard. And it wasn't just me. It's A LOT OF PEOPLE! Do you think that I am going to solder my motherboard to get it stable? HELL NO:| That is worse than ANY VIA board.
K7S5A-based system instability
<< A few weeks ago I began getting a new system ready for "live" daily use as my main system. Unfortunately, I'm running into some trouble with an ECS K7S5A motherboard, 1.4GHz Athlon, and 256 MB of Crucial DDR. I detailed some of this in our last main newsletter. My Windows XP install was unstable and producing all kinds of error messages and more than daily hard crashes (random reboots/Blue-Screens of Death). I tried a variety of things, including shutting off the on-board sound and networking. I even re-installed Windows XP from scratch on a new hard drive. Still, my system is unstable and crashing. I just lost half of a news item I was writing today due to a random blue-screen. I got a friendly note from JLBryant that I should check out OCWorkbench, as they have been looking hard at a similar issue plaguing many people. There's even a FAQ online that tells you how to detect the problem and what you can do about it. If you are so inclined after testing and verifying that your ECS K7S5A board has the issue, you can even try to repair it yourself, but the soldering skills and steady hands required to do this may be beyond my frustration level. The "problem" appears to occur on some K7S5A motherboards with 1.4GHz Athlons and results in data corruption/crashes due to the way the motherboards talk to certain AMD CPUs. The good news (for some) is that Athlon MP and XP processors seem to be free of the communications issue, possibly due to changes to the board specifically to accept Athlon MP/XP processors. Also, if you use SDRAM you could have a more stable system (K7S5As have DDR and SDRAM slots). I'm not 100% sure I have the identified problem, but trying to find out has cost me about three days worth of work this week and a lot of frustration. I will be running Memtest86 to see if I have this issue. My memory is set to "Normal" in the BIOS where I have the option of Safe, Normal, Fast and Ultra, or something to that extent. I'll report more on my issues with this motherboard as I get more information, but as we have been big fans of the $65, speedy SiS735-based Socket A ECS K7S5A, I thought I should mention this potential pitfall. So far, ECS does not seem to have a public response to the problem, other than an early denial where their testing failed to display the issue. I expect to see more from them on this and have e-mailed their support for a response. If you have good or bad results with a K7S5A, we'd be interested in hearing them. I should note that I built a system for my parents with another K7S5A running Windows 2000, using the built-in networking and sound and it has been running nicely. Update: As requested by Zi(wi)^9, the FAQ states this about the problem:
Q: What exactly is wrong with the "bad" motherboards?
A: The exact problem is not known, but currently two things appear to be issues:
1) 99% of the problem: The "ZP issue" (Driver Impedance). Testing has found that "bad" motherboards do not work correctly because of the way they "program" ZP, the AMD bus driver impedance for the CPU. These "bad" boards program the CPU to approximately 56 Ohms. Changing the motherboard's ZP resistance to a value closer to 40 Ohms is thought to make the signals stronger and has fixed the problem in several dozen confirmed cases and in several dozen additional reported cases.
and further...
It appears that boards with 0, 1, or 2 (maybe also 3) on the sticker by the PCI slots usually have 40 Ohm ZP and ZN resistors on the board. Boards with 4+ usually have 40 Ohms for ZN and 56 Ohms for ZP. This change seems to approximately coincide with the approval for Athlon XP processors. Although the reasons are not known, an AMD document has been circulating that states motherboards designed for XP processors should use 56 Ohms for ZP as a starting resistance. >>
No offense, but I think it depends a little on who builds it.
I assembled my ECS with an XP 1600+ and 512 MB DDR, and this thing is solid as a rock. Heavy loads, running for extended times, nothing can hurt this baby. And although the BIOS on there left much to be desired, with a quick flash it ran beautifully. I admit, though, that I run 98SE and 2000, not Windoze XP.
The only "bad" thing is that it is not an overclocker, but I did not want to do that anyway, I went the XP retail route, since I got a good deal for that.
I assembled my ECS with an XP 1600+ and 512 MB DDR, and this thing is solid as a rock. Heavy loads, running for extended times, nothing can hurt this baby. And although the BIOS on there left much to be desired, with a quick flash it ran beautifully. I admit, though, that I run 98SE and 2000, not Windoze XP.
The only "bad" thing is that it is not an overclocker, but I did not want to do that anyway, I went the XP retail route, since I got a good deal for that.
- Oct 9, 1999
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<< No offense, but I think it depends a little on who builds it.
I assembled my ECS with an XP 1600+ and 512 MB DDR, and this thing is solid as a rock. Heavy loads, running for extended times, nothing can hurt this baby. And although the BIOS on there left much to be desired, with a quick flash it ran beautifully. I admit, though, that I run 98SE and 2000, not Windoze XP.
The only "bad" thing is that it is not an overclocker, but I did not want to do that anyway, I went the XP retail route, since I got a good deal for that. >>
If you read the article I posted, you will see that Athlon XP's don't have this issue.
And I know how to build systems and troubleshoot and the ECS was the worst (personal system) experience I ever had (even topping my troublesome KT7A-RAID, which ended up fine after I ditched the friggin' SB Live!). I've built hundreds of systems for work and many for my own use since I was 16 (ranging from 486's to Pentiums to Pentium II's, to Athlons, to PIII's, etc.).
The main reason why the ECS K7S5A MB appeals to so many consumers is because of the p/p ratio...
Prooven results and great price have made the board a popular choice for Athlon and XP users...
Prooven results and great price have made the board a popular choice for Athlon and XP users...
<< If you read the article I posted, you will see that Athlon XP's don't have this issue. >>
Ooops, I should have read that before. My apologies.
NFS4 wrote:
"It's NOT money well spent when it screws up on you. Here is my EXACT issue IN FULL that I had with the motherboard. And it wasn't just me. It's A LOT OF PEOPLE! Do you think that I am going to solder my motherboard to get it stable? HELL NO That is worse than ANY VIA board."
LOL Like I said, I know you have had a bad experience with a K7S5A, as have many others. However, that's no reason to classify the board (nor the company, as some people like to do) as "crap". There are literally hundreds of thousands of these boards running without a hitch. For example, I'm using two for personal use right now -- an original and a Rev 4. Both work perfectly well with both Thunderbird and AthlonMP/XP processors. I've had none of the issues others have reported. The performance is incredible, and they're rock solid. I'm even overclocking them.
Why on earth would you mess around resoldering? If you get a bad one, like any other board, RMA it. Try a new one.
I've had nothing but trouble with every single KT266A board I've tried -- but even I realize that there are people running rock solid. I've just been stuck with incredibly bad luck. That's the way it goes sometimes.
K7S6A looks great. You get that 3rd DIMM (since so many people complain about the 2 on K7S5A, although I don't see why), SiS 745 with native PC2700 support and a superior memory controller, and, like usual, you avoid VIA like the plague. It also sports a 3rd fan header (since so many people gripe about the 2 featured on K7S5A). And it certainly appears to have adjustments for the multiplier, vcore, and FSB. And best of all, I don't see it being much (if any) more expensive than K7S5A, at least after a couple weeks when the gougers are out of luck
"It's NOT money well spent when it screws up on you. Here is my EXACT issue IN FULL that I had with the motherboard. And it wasn't just me. It's A LOT OF PEOPLE! Do you think that I am going to solder my motherboard to get it stable? HELL NO That is worse than ANY VIA board."
LOL
Like I said, I know you have had a bad experience with a K7S5A, as have many others. However, that's no reason to classify the board (nor the company, as some people like to do) as "crap". There are literally hundreds of thousands of these boards running without a hitch. For example, I'm using two for personal use right now -- an original and a Rev 4. Both work perfectly well with both Thunderbird and AthlonMP/XP processors. I've had none of the issues others have reported. The performance is incredible, and they're rock solid. I'm even overclocking them. Why on earth would you mess around resoldering? If you get a bad one, like any other board, RMA it. Try a new one.
I've had nothing but trouble with every single KT266A board I've tried -- but even I realize that there are people running rock solid. I've just been stuck with incredibly bad luck. That's the way it goes sometimes.
K7S6A looks great. You get that 3rd DIMM (since so many people complain about the 2 on K7S5A, although I don't see why), SiS 745 with native PC2700 support and a superior memory controller, and, like usual, you avoid VIA like the plague. It also sports a 3rd fan header (since so many people gripe about the 2 featured on K7S5A). And it certainly appears to have adjustments for the multiplier, vcore, and FSB. And best of all, I don't see it being much (if any) more expensive than K7S5A, at least after a couple weeks when the gougers are out of luck
i'm gonna have to go w/ pabster on this one, because of checked the objective truth of the situation and he's right.
anyway, floppy connector placement quibble is moot.
and i would certainly take SIS 745 chipset based board over a VIA one anyday...in fact, it's hard to believe that VIA's gotten away w/ so much BS and yet people still buy their product.
anyway, floppy connector placement quibble is moot.
and i would certainly take SIS 745 chipset based board over a VIA one anyday...in fact, it's hard to believe that VIA's gotten away w/ so much BS and yet people still buy their product.
nortexoid wrote:
"and i would certainly take SIS 745 chipset based board over a VIA one anyday...in fact, it's hard to believe that VIA's gotten away w/ so much BS and yet people still buy their product."
Do I hear an echo?
I'm amazed at it myself. I think the reason is simple: overclocking. Even though it's pretty easy to push K7S5A over default (I have a 1.4 Birdie running nicely at 1650) people seem to like the voltage adjustments and multiplier adjustments that the big name boards offer. It appears as though ECS may have answered the call with K7S6A.
The big names are also afraid to produce SiS-based boards because VIA applies pressure, threatening to increase chipset prices if they do. It's really mind boggling that board manufacturers' are being bullied around by a third-rate taiwanese chip maker. To this day, I assert AMD's market share would be much higher if VIA-based boards were not in existence. People are downright turned off by the headaches and frustration VIA-based boards always seem to throw at them.
"and i would certainly take SIS 745 chipset based board over a VIA one anyday...in fact, it's hard to believe that VIA's gotten away w/ so much BS and yet people still buy their product."
Do I hear an echo?
I'm amazed at it myself. I think the reason is simple: overclocking. Even though it's pretty easy to push K7S5A over default (I have a 1.4 Birdie running nicely at 1650) people seem to like the voltage adjustments and multiplier adjustments that the big name boards offer. It appears as though ECS may have answered the call with K7S6A.
The big names are also afraid to produce SiS-based boards because VIA applies pressure, threatening to increase chipset prices if they do. It's really mind boggling that board manufacturers' are being bullied around by a third-rate taiwanese chip maker. To this day, I assert AMD's market share would be much higher if VIA-based boards were not in existence. People are downright turned off by the headaches and frustration VIA-based boards always seem to throw at them.
My ECS K7S5a has been running like a champ,it was a bit unstable in winXP but turning ACPI OFF fixed all my problems.
My board also has a small XP sticker right beside the cpu socket,i hear that makes a difference with 1.4ghz + Athlons. Nfs4 did yours have that XP sticker on the board?
My board also has a small XP sticker right beside the cpu socket,i hear that makes a difference with 1.4ghz + Athlons. Nfs4 did yours have that XP sticker on the board?
I have assembled 3 pc's with this board. Each of them is running perfectly, not one complaint. And now with fsb and vcore adjustments, it will be a great upgrade.
/me is holding out for multiplier adjustments
I would ideally like to spend 100 CND on a board and be able to run my 900 bird at 133 x 7.5 or 8 (it can do 1070 on my A7V) .. I want DDR too
I would ideally like to spend 100 CND on a board and be able to run my 900 bird at 133 x 7.5 or 8 (it can do 1070 on my A7V) .. I want DDR too
I've got a Rev 4 KS75A working perfectly but only after going through a lot of troubleshooting. So far this is the only mobo I've flashed the bios the most. After going through pages and pages of the OC ECS Forum, I've finally come to the conclusion that ECS '5A mobo are very popular but at the same time have a lot of inherent problems. Of course, all mobo makers have problems with their products but usually it only comes down to about two or maybe three inherent problems which can be fixed without RMA. But ECS's problems are way more than what an average experience builder can handle. This is probably the only board also that came out with revisions which are more than the number of months from the time it came to the market. It seems the revisions comes out like 2 times in a month. There's obviously a Quality Control problem from the manufacturer of the board. The design works well but the components installed are either of poor quality or downgraded specs. Buying this mobo is like a hit or miss kinda of thing. I've built three of these babies and the first two work great but this last one was a PITA but eventually worked. If you miss the good ones, the best resort is to RMA and then try again. I've read in the forum wherein after three RMA's the poor guy still can't make the darn thing works.
NFS4 - All I've got say is I'm with you...the ECS was nothing but trouble for me. I've never had a motherboard give me problems like this one...all you saying that it depends on the builder, etc...that's bull. It depends on luck. If you're lucky you got a fully-functioning ECS board. If you're not so lucky, as a lot of us haven't been, you got one with defects. My board's second IDE controller didn't work at all, and I had nasty reboot/restart issues...when trying to flash to the newest bios, the board just went out. No unsuccessful flash message, no signs of anything being wrong with the flash...used the proper utility and bios. Upon restart, nothing, and nothing I did could revive it.
This is just a theory, but I thought perhaps ECS wasn't expecting this board to take off like it did, so when it did they had to bump up production and let quality control slide....just a theory. All I can say is I shoulda known better...what's the point of saving $40 on a motherboard when it's not up to par with, say, the Epox 8kha+ and you have to spend so much of your time and effort gettin' the damn thing stable. Screw it, I'm not gonna change anyone's mind anyway...just try not to assume the builder is at fault because it's not always the case...especially with NFS4. I mean, if you've been around this forum it should be pretty obvious to anyone he knows his stuff...
This is just a theory, but I thought perhaps ECS wasn't expecting this board to take off like it did, so when it did they had to bump up production and let quality control slide....just a theory. All I can say is I shoulda known better...what's the point of saving $40 on a motherboard when it's not up to par with, say, the Epox 8kha+ and you have to spend so much of your time and effort gettin' the damn thing stable. Screw it, I'm not gonna change anyone's mind anyway...just try not to assume the builder is at fault because it's not always the case...especially with NFS4. I mean, if you've been around this forum it should be pretty obvious to anyone he knows his stuff...
- Oct 9, 1999
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<< NFS4 - All I've got say is I'm with you...the ECS was nothing but trouble for me. I've never had a motherboard give me problems like this one...all you saying that it depends on the builder, etc...that's bull. It depends on luck. If you're lucky you got a fully-functioning ECS board. If you're not so lucky, as a lot of us haven't been, you got one with defects. My board's second IDE controller didn't work at all, and I had nasty reboot/restart issues...when trying to flash to the newest bios, the board just went out. No unsuccessful flash message, no signs of anything being wrong with the flash...used the proper utility and bios. Upon restart, nothing, and nothing I did could revive it.
This is just a theory, but I thought perhaps ECS wasn't expecting this board to take off like it did, so when it did they had to bump up production and let quality control slide....just a theory. All I can say is I shoulda known better...what's the point of saving $40 on a motherboard when it's not up to par with, say, the Epox 8kha+ and you have to spend so much of your time and effort gettin' the damn thing stable. Screw it, I'm not gonna change anyone's mind anyway...just try not to assume the builder is at fault because it's not always the case...especially with NFS4. I mean, if you've been around this forum it should be pretty obvious to anyone he knows his stuff... >>
I know exactly what you mean. When I was having these problems with this board, people kept telling me (I think that it was mainly Buzz2B, the ECS guru) that I shouldn't be complaining b/c it's only a $65 board and that I should be WILLING to tinker to get it to work properly. Like hell, if I spend $$$, i want something that WORKS. Disabling ACPI (I should NOT have to do that), updating BIOS's regularly, using hacked BIOS's from OCworkbench, and having to go through an extensive FAQ from OCworkbench to chart out my problems is not exactly my idea of a fun with a new motherboard. I thought that the ECS K7S5A would be different, but years of being dogged by the computer users still wins out now in my eyes after actually dealing with them.
I pop in my Shuttle board, install the VIA 4-in-1's and it has been stable ever since with no reboots or blue screens. As for motherboards I have installed in MY systems that I have built over the years:
Iwill P55XB2 + Pentium 233MX @ 262MHz - first system that I put together for myself. Had it up and running in 25 mins.
ABIT BH6 + Celeron 300A @ 450MHz - great system and rock solid through it's lifespan
AMD Fester + Athlon 600 @ 750MHz - stable with no problems (in fact, I'm typing on this system right now, it's now my dad's)
ABIT KA7 + Athlon 600 @ 750MHz - stable with no problems (used same CPU as above, just wanted more optioned mobo)
ABIT KT7A-RAID + Duron 800 @ 950MHz - had issue with IDE controllers and lockups. Turned out to be the SB Live! Ditched it and got a Santa Cruz. Stable ever since.
Reference SiS735 + 1.4GHz T-Bird - random reboots, blue screens, IRQ not equals errors, random lockups. I tried a 300W AND 350W power supply to no avail
ECS K7S5A + 1.4GHz T-Bird - same as above
A reference board and a production board with the same problems...
And for Budman, no, it did NOT have an XP sticker on it.
I just don't get it... I don't have ANY problems AT ALL on mine. And I'm overclocking the snot out of my CPU with it to as you can see in my sig. AND I'm running WinXP Home Edition (full install, retail box) and its running even better than it was with WinMe. Why can't some of you admit that its NOT the model or the chipset. But maybe you just got a bad board?
Thats because ECS is more of a quantity producer than quality
I think you've hit the nail on the head. The boards that make it out of the factory built to spec run like champs, but the shotty ones that get through the Q/C program ECS is implementing give the company a bad name. This may explain the differences of opinion and experience.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. The boards that make it out of the factory built to spec run like champs, but the shotty ones that get through the Q/C program ECS is implementing give the company a bad name. This may explain the differences of opinion and experience.
<< Thats because ECS is more of a quantity producer than quality
I think you've hit the nail on the head. The boards that make it out of the factory built to spec run like champs, but the shotty ones that get through the Q/C program ECS is implementing give the company a bad name. This may explain the differences of opinion and experience. >>
Definitely.
I don't see what all the fuss is about, personally.
What you have with the ECS K7S5A is a typical mass-market, OEM-targeted Tier 3 motherboard by a Tier 3 motherboard company.
ECS ain't no ASUS and their product sure as hell aint no BX6 Rev 2.0 either. On the flip side of the coin, you could buy 3 or 4 ECS mobo's for the price of one solid "Tier 1" ASUS.
Is ECS going to improve their Q/C program? With their current profit margins, I don't think so. ECS target audience was never really the type of person who visits Anandtech's Motherboard forum on a daily basis; it just so happened that the SiS 735 chipset was "more than they bargained for" and attracted the attention of the hardware enthusiast community. Obviously, since the most popular SiS735 board was the ECS, many enthusiasts jumped on it.
But really, what were you expecting for US$50 from a company who competes with the likes of PCChips, Houston Tech and QDI?
And comparing SiS chipsets to VIA chipsets is incredibly ridiculous. It's so ridiculous, I won't even go there.
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