New DOD:S cinematic effects

[TraumaRN]

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2005/12/09/source_film_effects/1.html

Seems like valve wants a make it optional to have a more in depth 40's type feel to DOD:S

Some of it seems nifty, or at the least fun to play around with....I know it's ripping off COD2 a bit but oh well I own both games and they both have strengths and weaknesses.

Discuss. And play nice.

 

[VIAN]

Valve is retarded. First HDR doesn't even work properly. Second, isn't the point of gaming supposed to imitate real life, not a movie. Sure, you can make it cinematic to a point, but adding all these post filters to create a film like image. God, WTH are they thinking.

Valve is almost as bad as EA. Valve codes better, meaning stuff doesn't crash like EA, but some of their ideas are just as bad as having bad code, making the game difficult to play ex. flash bangs in CS:S.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: VIAN
Valve is retarded. First HDR doesn't even work properly. Second, isn't the point of gaming supposed to imitate real life, not a movie. Sure, you can make it cinematic to a point, but adding all these post filters to create a film like image. God, WTH are they thinking.

Valve is almost as bad as EA. Valve codes better, meaning stuff doesn't crash like EA, but some of their ideas are just as bad as having bad code, making the game difficult to play ex. flash bangs in CS:S.

Well just a thought but it's probably going to be optional to turn on/off, besides the videos make it look better....have you ever watched Band of Brothers? it's like that kind of effect...

They are probably thinking for 'coolness' factor....there has to be something to separate it from other games?? It's partly marketing, partly 'look what we can do'

 

[Eureka]

Already seen it... but DoD is always better than CoD. CoD was supposed to be an action movie game... DoD is for some serious fun. But now they're trying to put too much into it... and plus my 6600GT doesn't need anymore stress than it has.

However, if they added this to DoDS gameplay and made it a singleplayer mod, then it might be worthwhile. Otherwise, I'd rather play my DoD without all the special effects. Considering they fubared the classes enough with DoDS... 1.3 was fine enough as it was.

Norm

 

[otispunkmeyer]

its a neat effect but come on, yes 40's film may look like that, but do you think the soldiers view the world like that 😕 LOL!

if i wanted to make a movie in DoD this would be great....but i dont.

 

[VIAN]

Originally posted by: cevilgenius
Already seen it... but DoD is always better than CoD. CoD was supposed to be an action movie game... DoD is for some serious fun. But now they're trying to put too much into it... and plus my 6600GT doesn't need anymore stress than it has.

However, if they added this to DoDS gameplay and made it a singleplayer mod, then it might be worthwhile. Otherwise, I'd rather play my DoD without all the special effects. Considering they fubared the classes enough with DoDS... 1.3 was fine enough as it was.

Norm

I say DOD was argueably better than COD, until it went Source. Then came the "grenade launcher" crap, with those grenade blast effect, that seems to sort of flash you. These annoyances are just unacceptable. Valve ruins every game they touch.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Originally posted by: VIAN
Valve is retarded. First HDR doesn't even work properly. Second, isn't the point of gaming supposed to imitate real life, not a movie. Sure, you can make it cinematic to a point, but adding all these post filters to create a film like image. God, WTH are they thinking.

Valve is almost as bad as EA. Valve codes better, meaning stuff doesn't crash like EA, but some of their ideas are just as bad as having bad code, making the game difficult to play ex. flash bangs in CS:S.

Flash bangs in CS don't make it hard to play...they don't last long enough sure, but they do confuse the enemy...they should.

HDR does work, it just isn't as drastic as that in Far Cry....maybe your hardware doesn't work! I played DE-Nuke which has HDR in it, and it runs fine, looks good...and doesn't affect my framerate much at all. Plus, I get HDR + AA/AF....don't see games like Far Cry doing that.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Originally posted by: VIAN

Originally posted by: cevilgenius
Already seen it... but DoD is always better than CoD. CoD was supposed to be an action movie game... DoD is for some serious fun. But now they're trying to put too much into it... and plus my 6600GT doesn't need anymore stress than it has.

However, if they added this to DoDS gameplay and made it a singleplayer mod, then it might be worthwhile. Otherwise, I'd rather play my DoD without all the special effects. Considering they fubared the classes enough with DoDS... 1.3 was fine enough as it was.

Norm

I say DOD was argueably better than COD, until it went Source. Then came the "grenade launcher" crap, with those grenade blast effect, that seems to sort of flash you. These annoyances are just unacceptable. Valve ruins every game they touch.

Well, don't even respond to my other post then, you seem to be so damned biased that any discussion isn't worth it.

Every ga,e has its flaws, sure. But to say valve destroys everything they touch is extreme...Considering they created games like CS, and you say it got destroyed...well, that means it was good at one point right? Well, Valve wrote it...which means you don't think so poorly of them....you just like to contradict yourself.

If their stuff is that bad, fine. Don't buy it, don't play it, don't whine, don't troll.

 

[VIAN]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Flash bangs in CS don't make it hard to play...they don't last long enough sure, but they do confuse the enemy...they should.

HDR does work, it just isn't as drastic as that in Far Cry....maybe your hardware doesn't work! I played DE-Nuke which has HDR in it, and it runs fine, looks good...and doesn't affect my framerate much at all. Plus, I get HDR + AA/AF....don't see games like Far Cry doing that.

The flash band in CS, first of all, can last up to 5 seconds before you get to get unconfused. They really hurt my eyes. If I turn around, I still get flashed to the point of blinding. Sometimes, around a corner, I get flashed. Plus, something like that should have a counter. For instance, I would be nice to be able to cover my eyes or close them at least, instead of just having that happen to you. Instead of, if you are within a range, you get flashed no matter what. You can't do anything about it. The game is realistic enough, were it gets annoying that you can't counter a flash with another realistic move.

HDR doesn't work properly because, if I look at the sun, my eyes get used to it. What kind of crap is that. When was the last time that happened when you looked at the sun. Can you even look at the sun, it's so bright. A flashlight that shows blinding light on the walls, but doesn't blind people. It's so stupid.

And they can't even fukn fix the sleeve of the CTs. Their arm is supposed to be covered, not exposed.

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
Well, don't even respond to my other post then, you seem to be so damned biased that any discussion isn't worth it.

Every ga,e has its flaws, sure. But to say valve destroys everything they touch is extreme...Considering they created games like CS, and you say it got destroyed...well, that means it was good at one point right? Well, Valve wrote it...which means you don't think so poorly of them....you just like to contradict yourself.

If their stuff is that bad, fine. Don't buy it, don't play it, don't whine, don't troll.

Not obvious, gameplay interferring flaws. Considering someone else created CS, considering it is a mod, and Valve adopted it and messed it up.

 

[RampantAndroid]

If flashbangs hurt your eyes, as in physically, don't sit 3 inches in front of the moniter....turn down the brightness...its easy to fix.

They don't hurt my eyes. If it is something that cannot be fixed, then don't play.

Yes, you still do get confused if you turn around...as the name suggests, it is a FLASH BANG. THere is a flash, created using phosphurous. Light reflects off of objects, and even if you turn around you get flashed.

And even if you were to somehow isolate your eyes from the flash, then there is the bang. That's enough to give you a good ringing in your head for quite a while...the flashbang effects in CS are underdone...

Go play games like BHD or Americas Army...the flashbang effects work the same, but more extreme. Ask anyone who is in the military and uses flashbangs....when they are used in confined spaces, there is no way to escape being blinded...look it up online...you'll find the same info there.

And looking it up on wikipedia, I seem to find that CS was done by Valve....maybe its missing something, but from what I'm reading, CS is valve's doing.

If their stuff is that bad, fine. Don't buy it, don't play it, don't whine, don't troll.

 

[VIAN]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroid
If flashbangs hurt your eyes, as in physically, don't sit 3 inches in front of the moniter....turn down the brightness...its easy to fix.

They don't hurt my eyes. If it is something that cannot be fixed, then don't play.

Yes, you still do get confused if you turn around...as the name suggests, it is a FLASH BANG. THere is a flash, created using phosphurous. Light reflects off of objects, and even if you turn around you get flashed.

And even if you were to somehow isolate your eyes from the flash, then there is the bang. That's enough to give you a good ringing in your head for quite a while...the flashbang effects in CS are underdone...

Go play games like BHD or Americas Army...the flashbang effects work the same, but more extreme. Ask anyone who is in the military and uses flashbangs....when they are used in confined spaces, there is no way to escape being blinded...look it up online...you'll find the same info there.

And looking it up on wikipedia, I seem to find that CS was done by Valve....maybe its missing something, but from what I'm reading, CS is valve's doing.

According to Wikipedia:

"The Counter-Strike team was formed by Minh Le ("Gooseman") and Jess Cliffe ("Cliffe") in 1999. Counter-Strike Beta 1.0 was released in June that same year, followed by a relatively quick succession of the beta releases (by the end of 1999, beta 5.0 had been released). CS gained in popularity just as rapidly. The Counter-Strike team was acquired by Valve to turn the fan-created mod into an official mod for Half-Life."

"Stun grenades, also known as flashbangs, were originally designed for the British Special Air Service. Stun grenades are used to confuse, disorient, or momentarily distract a potential threat for up to five to six seconds. A "flashbang" can seriously degrade the combat effectiveness of affected personnel for up to a minute. The best known is the M84 Stun Grenade, commonly known as the "Flashbang", so called because it produces a blinding (1 million Candela) flash and deafening (170-180 decibel) blast. This grenade can be used to incapacitate people, generally without causing serious injury.

The physiological processes though which this is made possible is quite simple. The flash of light momentarily activates all sensory pigment in the retina, making vision impossible for approximately five seconds until the eye restores the pigment. Subjects affected by flashbangs describe seeing a single frame for the five seconds (as if their vision was "paused") until it fades and normal sight returns. This is because the sensory pigments which have been activated continue sending the same information to the brain until they are restored to their resting state, and the brain translates this continuous information into the same image. The incredibly loud blast emitted from the grenade contributes to its incapacitative properties by disturbing the fluid in the semicircular canals of the ear. The semicircular canals consist of three half circles of tubing, each oriented in one of the three planes of motion, that are filled with a saline water solution. The walls of the tubes are lined with hair cells which use their small, hairlike cilia to detect the motion of the water. This establishes a person's sense of balance and movement through space. When a flashbang detonates, the water in the semicircular canals is disturbed, and with it the subject's sense of balance. The phenomenon is similar to spinning rapidly in one direction, and suddenly stopping. The sensation that the room is moving comes from the movement of the water in the inner ear."

It's pretty acurrate, Valve gives it it the least annoying features of the flash bang. Not bad. Even if you covered your eyes, you would lose your balance, so instead of having you lose your balance, you just can't cover you eyes. Interesting. Fine. You win the arguement. The brigtness isn't what hurts my eyes, it's the entire effect with the frozen frame.

 

[ITPaladin]

Originally posted by: VIAN
Second, isn't the point of gaming supposed to imitate real life, not a movie.

I didn't get the memo on this.

When I first finished playing HL1, I thought...wow!...That felt like a movie!

 

[jtvang125]

I haven't played CS:S much so I can't comment on the flashbang effects. I have played Rainbow Six: Raven Shield, which uses flashbangs as well. They're almost a necessity because you'll be doing a lot of room clearing. The flashbang effects are realistic yet not over done. You get a blinding flash for about 3-4 seconds followed by about 4 seconds of vision blur. You also get a ringing sensation.

They have never bothered me if I got caught within range when one goes off. If you can simply close your eyes to counter the effects then there's really no need for flashbangs at all.

 

[raystorm]

I would love to see those effects in a new Resident Evil or Silent Hill game. Not sure how useful those effects would be in a fast paced fps.

 

[Eureka]

Originally posted by: RampantAndroidConsidering they created games like CS, and you say it got destroyed...well, that means it was good at one point right? Well, Valve wrote it...which means you don't think so poorly of them....you just like to contradict yourself.

If their stuff is that bad, fine. Don't buy it, don't play it, don't whine, don't troll.

Valve didn't create CS, nor DoD. Play a pre-Valve game of CS and DoD, and then a post-Valve game of CS and DoD. Big difference there.

Norm

 

[Polish3d]

I don't like them.. to me it looks like an effort to cover up graphical fallacies by invoking a couple photo-shop style filters to blur things out.. no go for me

 

[sainthoodx]

Did you all notice the focussing affects? Depending on what you're looking at, other things go a tad out of focus. Very realistic and cool but will suck for competitive play. I will probably not use the movie style FX but will use the focussing affects.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: VIAN
Valve is retarded. First HDR doesn't even work properly.

Well, their HDR works the way it is designed to; it's just limited to a certain extent. One of your complaints is that the sun is not 'blinding' enough -- but if you made the sun much, much brighter, it would also make the rest of the scene really, really bright (to the point of it being extremely overexposed). You could probably tweak it to look better than it does now; I'm sure Valve would be the first to admit it's still a work in progress.

Second, isn't the point of gaming supposed to imitate real life, not a movie.

In case you hadn't noticed, 'real life' has depth-of-field and motion blur. 😛 Movie-quality CGI has been using similar effects for a long time.

Sure, you can make it cinematic to a point, but adding all these post filters to create a film like image. God, WTH are they thinking.

I agree that the 'film grain' effect is probably not something I would want during gameplay. It's an interesting sort of thing to be able to do with the engine, though.

Similar 'color correction' effects were used in Max Payne 2 when you go into 'bullet time' -- everything takes on sort of a sepia-toned hue that gets more pronounced as you kill more enemies (which also slows down the rest of the world further). So I've seen it used before in a non-sucky way.

Valve is almost as bad as EA. Valve codes better, meaning stuff doesn't crash like EA, but some of their ideas are just as bad as having bad code, making the game difficult to play ex. flash bangs in CS:S.

Um, flashbangs are *supposed* to make it hard for you to see/aim. IMO, they were underpowered in earlier versions of CS.

I'm sure if someone set off a concussion grenade a few yards away from you, you would have a hard time doing anything useful for at least 5-10 seconds. 😛

 

[Kaeishiwaza]

It's almost as if everyone's missing the point here on purpose.

The point isn't so much that they're making a game with these effects, or even adding them to DoD:S. It's a technology demo, and a damned cool one at that. Motion blur, depth of field, color filters, etc are just tools which a programmer can use in their application. I personally give kudos to Valve for showing this off. The point is there's more to a 3d POV than cramming more polygons into shapes and more bits into textures. I think Valve has shown some real innovation here. I don't know any other company that has these effects in their toolboxes.

 

[VIAN]

Originally posted by: Matthias99
Well, their HDR works the way it is designed to; it's just limited to a certain extent. One of your complaints is that the sun is not 'blinding' enough -- but if you made the sun much, much brighter, it would also make the rest of the scene really, really bright (to the point of it being extremely overexposed). You could probably tweak it to look better than it does now; I'm sure Valve would be the first to admit it's still a work in progress.

In case you hadn't noticed, 'real life' has depth-of-field and motion blur. 😛 Movie-quality CGI has been using similar effects for a long time.

My complaint about HDR was not that the sun isn't blinding enough, but that if you look at the sun, it's like walking into a light area from a dark area, it's bright, but then your eyes adjust. That's not supposed to happen when looking at the sun or look directly at light, unless it's very weak. Only when you go from dark areas to light areas.

My complaints about the movie idea were more towards the grainy effect. I have doubts of depth of field, but we'll see how that goes. Proper motion blur is welcom.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: VIAN

Originally posted by: Matthias99
Well, their HDR works the way it is designed to; it's just limited to a certain extent. One of your complaints is that the sun is not 'blinding' enough -- but if you made the sun much, much brighter, it would also make the rest of the scene really, really bright (to the point of it being extremely overexposed). You could probably tweak it to look better than it does now; I'm sure Valve would be the first to admit it's still a work in progress.

My complaint about HDR was not that the sun isn't blinding enough, but that if you look at the sun, it's like walking into a light area from a dark area, it's bright, but then your eyes adjust. That's not supposed to happen when looking at the sun or look directly at light, unless it's very weak. Only when you go from dark areas to light areas.

I don't know about you, but if *I* look directly at a bright light, my pupils contract and my vision attempts to adjust for it. 😛 It doesn't have to be much brighter than the environment to have an effect on your vision, especially if it is dark to begin with (for instance, if you are outside at night, just pointing a bright flashlight at nearby objects will impact your vision significantly).

The problem you seem to be having is that in-game, the HDR actually 'adjusts' enough that you can see even if you're looking directly at a very bright light source (whereas in reality, you would be blinded). Fixing that is just a matter of setting up the relative brightness values correctly and clipping how much they can adjust the 'exposure' to more accurately reflect human vision. But there are some technical issues around making one light source (like the in-game sun) millions of times brighter than everything else, because even with HDR, your dynamic range is not infinite.

 

[EvilRage]

Originally posted by: VIAN
isn't the point of gaming supposed to imitate real life, not a movie.

Um, no. The point of gaming is to create a fun and/or memorable experience for the player. Some games can accomplish that by creating a realistic experience, while some can do it by creating something totally crazy and non-realistic (think Katamari, or maybe something in the Twisted Metal series... fun, but not realisitc.) and still other fun can be had playing movie-realistic type games. If you think the only place gaming should go is where reality is, then you're extremely short-sighted.

Originally posted by: VIAN
Valve is almost as bad as EA. Valve codes better, meaning stuff doesn't crash like EA, but some of their ideas are just as bad as having bad code, making the game difficult to play ex. flash bangs in CS:S.

Again... what? Flash bangs are SUPPOSED to make the game difficult to play... I'm not even gonna bother, all of this was covered in earlier posts. And flash bangs weren't introduced by Valve in CS, they were created by the original developers, and kept when Valve took over the game because they're an integral part of game strategy. You must be one of those guys who I flash twice and then pop in the head, all the damn time.


Anyhow, in response to the OP... I think the technology is innovative and fun, and I'm glad someone is doing something original with the WWII FPS sub-genre. I haven't taken a look at the movies yet, but I'll be downloading them to see exactly how this looks in action. If anything, this'll create more replay value for the game (and since I got the game for free when I purchased HL2, maybe I'll actually start playing it at some point).

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The film grain is way overdone, and looks like some messed up version of Doom at 320x240. However, the color correction is awesome. If you've ever played Hitman 3, you'd see how much a simple sepia tint to an office or a blue tint to a mansion can really help with atmosphere.