new CRT monitor

[Slugbait]

Just for the sake of jumping in, I also prefer my 21" FD Trinitron over an LCD.

But let's get back to solutions...

I bought that FD monitor used for $100 (originally $1600 six years earlier). I go garage sailing every once in awhile, and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a CRT sitting on somebody's lawn. A neighbor down the street last year had a 21" Dell monitor (rebadged Sony) he was trying to sell for $40...it was still sitting there at the end of the day with a marked down price of $25. I almost considered buying it, except I already have a spare 21" sitting in my garage (next to my spare SB Live, spare PSU, spare etc) that somebody gave to me for free.

Put a few bucks in your wallet and get outside, go garage sailing, meet your neighbors, etc...and be picky about which replacement CRT you buy for cheap. If you don't like the asking price, talk 'em down A LOT...you'd be surprised how willing they are to take less just to get those tanks out of their house.

 

[v8envy]

24" CRT... *drool*

I keep wanting to get a flat panel, but I'm very sensitive to grey blacks, ghosting and all the other joys which come with an LCD (or even plasma). I tolerate LCDs on a laptop, but I just can't bear to downgrade from my 21" Nokia. I went to look at several 22 to 24" LCDs at various times and just came away going 'yuck.' Got a 22" Viewsonic for my parents, but I can't bear using it.

I think when it finally gives up the ghost I may just get a 50" DLP projection set and figure out the logistics of gaming on that.

 

[v8envy]

As a followup: I wonder how many of you LCD lovers have glasses? I noticed my wife (20/300 vision) doesn't even notice picture quality issues that drive me insane. I have 20/20 uncorrected. My daughter has 20/15 or 20/10 (must be part eagle or something). The two of us are far more picky about visuals.

I'm guessing a few tens of years with smudges on lenses or the like could train the brain to compensate for lots of shortcomings.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: v8envy
As a followup: I wonder how many of you LCD lovers have glasses? I noticed my wife (20/300 vision) doesn't even notice picture quality issues that drive me insane. I have 20/20 uncorrected. My daughter has 20/15 or 20/10 (must be part eagle or something). The two of us are far more picky about visuals.

I'm guessing a few tens of years with smudges on lenses or the like could train the brain to compensate for lots of shortcomings.

You don't need eyes like an eagle to notice glaring flaws in display technologies. You just need to know how to interpret what you see. It sounds like you've seen mainly TN displays, which is for the most part all you see at the stores. A good H-IPS doesn't have any of the viewing angle problems and probably very few problems with color reproduction. I think they would be considerably more pleasing to you, but response time and lag can still be an issue depending on how much you're willing to deal with.

A lot of us feel like justifying spending $500+ on an LCD but to be fair, the CRTs out there today don't really serve as alternatives.

On LCDs, response time/lag, black level (contrast), resolution switching, sometimes color saturation fall behind CRTs. Although the color gamut of LCDs has long since exceeded the best CRT (which was just about 93% or 97% NTSC, compared to 120%+). This knocks out most of the saturation advantage. With darker colors, LCDs still sometimes have trouble with saturation though because of black level.

Today it is a lot easier to get a photo editing LCD than a photo editing CRT. Many of the high-end LCDs today offer great color accuracy, sometimes better than the best CRTs.

If you expect to get an IPS panel though (which is the best choice for CRT-likeness), plan on spending at least $350 (if you're lucky and win the panel lottery) or over $500. The DoubleSight DS-263N at $700 offers advantages of arguably one of the best LCDs in existence (H-IPS LCD2690WUXi). That's probably the best value you can get right now if you want a decent LCD. Otherwise, plan on dealing with viewing angle problems and off colors with the VA and TN panels, especially with TN.

 

[Modelworks]

Another common issue people neglect when using a crt is the refresh rate.
Of course you are going to think an lcd looks better than a 60hz crt display

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: xtknight


You don't need eyes like an eagle to notice glaring flaws in display technologies. You just need to know how to interpret what you see.

That's my point! People with good eyesight may have less developed brains incapable of compensating for display imperfections. People with bad eyesight will have exercised the visual centers of their brains far more, and can thus adapt better.

Edit: btw, thanks for the LCD resources thread. I'll definitely try to find the DoubleSight monitor somewhere. $700, meh. I spent about that much for a 17" trinitron in the 90s. It's not the price that bugs me -- it's the input lag, ghosting, black levels. I could even deal with inaccurate colors I think, but not with the weird 6 bit panel color flicker.

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: v8envy

Originally posted by: xtknight


You don't need eyes like an eagle to notice glaring flaws in display technologies. You just need to know how to interpret what you see.

That's my point! People with good eyesight may have less developed brains incapable of compensating for display imperfections. People with bad eyesight will have exercised the visual centers of their brains far more, and can thus adapt better.

Edit: btw, thanks for the LCD resources thread. I'll definitely try to find the DoubleSight monitor somewhere. $700, meh. I spent about that much for a 17" trinitron in the 90s. It's not the price that bugs me -- it's the input lag, ghosting, black levels. I could even deal with inaccurate colors I think, but not with the weird 6 bit panel color flicker.

The DoubleSight DS-263N at $700 offers advantages of arguably one of the best LCDs in existence (H-IPS LCD2690WUXi). That's probably the best value you can get right now if you want a decent LCD.

incidentally, I happened to be contemplating on that upgrade from my lowly soyo, once I get to sell it to someone around me. should be a quite a bit of improvement in colors, I hope

 

[Assimilator1]

Originally posted by: MIDIman

There's a great sticky LCD thread on the Graphics forum if you haven't browset it yet.

Cool ,I'll check it out:thumbsup:

Originally posted by: v8envy
As a followup: I wonder how many of you LCD lovers have glasses? I noticed my wife (20/300 vision) doesn't even notice picture quality issues that drive me insane. I have 20/20 uncorrected. My daughter has 20/15 or 20/10 (must be part eagle or something). The two of us are far more picky about visuals.

I'm guessing a few tens of years with smudges on lenses or the like could train the brain to compensate for lots of shortcomings.

Yea I was wondering the same, my vision is still damn good (as tested by yearly eye tests) despite my diabetes(T1).

 

[CreasianDevaili]

I myself had to decide between CRT and LCD. So I just drove to accurateit and got myself a HP FW9012, aka FW900, in grade A condition. I see maybe 1 or two small scratches on the entire case, and its not even noticeable and the front bezel and screen is in perfect condition.

It was 599, but 6 months warrenty was good. Plus i got to pick my monitor out since I went there in person. They treated me awsome, calibrated it for me and did the restore after the monitor was on for 30 minutes, hooked it up to their pc to show me pictures on the screen, and even gave me a BNC-VGA Thick cable. So I left with the almost perfect monitor, 6 months warranty, a free 25 dollar BNC high grade cable, and the normal VGA/Plugs.

Been playing games and watching DVDs on it all day to test it out and its so friggin nice. So impressed with the quality, and the thing can be really bright. I got the brightness turned all the way down to 38 1 notch, with contrast at 100 at 1920x1200 85Hz and I still think its alittle too bright so might turn the brightness down more. So glad I didnt get one of the monitors that has a issue retaining brightness. Got it on "easy" 6500k in the color option window.

Even at that high of resolutions and hz, black text on a totally white background is really focused and not blurry at all. In game the thing truely shines, or when I got alot of vibrant colors flying around like in my plasma pong 1.2 or Oblivion.

There might be some very nice LCD's out there, but I gotta say this CRT is surpassing my expectations and has been worth every penny. Maybe i lucked out with a good refurb A, but I dont think i could trade it for any of the LCD's at bestbuy. I went and looked at them all the day before I got this, and they were looking pretty crisp and colorful, and 1 day after i went back and they dont look as "good".

I am aware that Bestbuy only carries TN panels these days. So I had also taken the trip to my local microcenter and while there was a better selection.. they still didnt give me buyers regret in the least. However to each his own and all things equal.

 

[batmang]

Who the hell would want a CRT nowadays?!?!? Get a 24" LCD at least and call it a day. They are thinner, use less power, produce less heat, and have pretty damn good image quality. LCD FTW!

 

[batmang]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: NinjaJedi

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: TitusTroy
[/b]

Dead. Let's get with the times

+1

IMO the crapiest LCD monitor is probably going to have much better image quality then CRT.

You would be dead wrong.
I have an ibm P260 that is really a sony 21".
I have yet to see any lcd monitor that can even come close to its color, black depth.
Not to mention not being stuck with a native resolution.

Yeah, BUT......

My 3007 WFP-HC has pretty good color, and I can tell you for a fact that 30" of 25X16 blows away 20" of 4:3, even if it has nicer black.

The days of the CRT are over.

I thought like you guys for a while, loved gaming on my FE2111-SB. Never looked back when I got my 2405FPW.

Pretty good color doesn't cut it when working with graphics.
You need accurate color and true blacks for that.
LCD don't come close.

Apple's LCD's are pretty damn good, I'm sure those would suffice.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: batmang


Apple's LCD's are pretty damn good, I'm sure those would suffice.

hrm, pay upwards of 500.00 for a lcd, or spend under 100.00 for a top notch crt with true blacks.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: v8envy
That's my point! People with good eyesight may have less developed brains incapable of compensating for display imperfections. People with bad eyesight will have exercised the visual centers of their brains far more, and can thus adapt better.

Edit: btw, thanks for the LCD resources thread. I'll definitely try to find the DoubleSight monitor somewhere. $700, meh. I spent about that much for a 17" trinitron in the 90s. It's not the price that bugs me -- it's the input lag, ghosting, black levels. I could even deal with inaccurate colors I think, but not with the weird 6 bit panel color flicker.

I'm pretty sensitive to any irregularities related to motion, like blurring/ghosting, low framerates, tearing or stuttering. This is one big reason I prefer CRTs and also why I don't like certain game engines with fixed ticrates that most people have no problem with (anything Doom 3 based, NFS:MW, maybe Oblivion). My eyesight is actually very poor by itself, but I wear glasses at all times and am used to them.

As for the black levels, one reason I'm picky about them is that I often play games at night, in a pitch dark room. I haven't seen any LCD that produces a decent black in such an environment. Many LCDs have good contrast in a well lit room, especially the ones with the glossy coating, but can't output anything close to black in a dark room.

And yeah, price is not the issue for me. I would gladly splurge on an LCD if it did everything my CRT can do, on a bigger screen.

 

[QueBert]

I found a guy on Craigslist selling CRT's, I bought FIVE 4 21's and 1 22 Trintron. I know they're used so I stocked up as I don't know if I'll be able to find them. I will run CRT until LCD 100% matches - not close, not "almost" not "maybe better in a few categories" I don't see that happening any time soon. Or I'll upgrade if somehow Widescreen because mandatory. But, if the 2nd happens I can find a 23" WS CRT. please nobody tell me an LCD is as good, they're not bad but for pure IQ you won't touch my CRT, which cost me all of 20 bucks. This might change in 3-4 years but as it stands all I care about is quality and accurate colors, not size, not WS not brightness.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: surfsatwerk
Image quality aside, I would rather play solitaire the rest of my life rather than game on a non-widescreen monitor.

I would rather be playing games AT ALL instead of obsessing over whether I'm using a CRT or LCD, or whether I'm at a 3/4, 5/4 or 16/10 aspect ratio.

As for LCDs, they take less space, produce less heat, use less power and are easier to transport (I used to go to LAN parties once a week). Any real or perceived inferiority of the LCD picture, I can live with for the bonuses.

 

[toadeater]

I have a CRT and an LCD.

 

[Assimilator1]

Yea for LAN parties I'd bring my 2nd PCs LCD along & live with the poorer picture

Originally posted by: batmang
Who the hell would want a CRT nowadays?!?!? Get a 24" LCD at least and call it a day. They are thinner, use less power, produce less heat, and have pretty damn good image quality. LCD FTW!

I guess you didn't bother to read any of the thread then!

 

[CP5670]

As for LCDs, they take less space, produce less heat, use less power and are easier to transport (I used to go to LAN parties once a week). Any real or perceived inferiority of the LCD picture, I can live with for the bonuses.

This is true for small LCDs but the power demands increase very sharply beyond the 22" size. The 24" LCDs use the same amount of power as 21/22" CRTs (usually between 90W and 120W, which is twice as much as most 22" LCDs) and the 30" ones are rated at 150-170W.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: CP5670

As for LCDs, they take less space, produce less heat, use less power and are easier to transport (I used to go to LAN parties once a week). Any real or perceived inferiority of the LCD picture, I can live with for the bonuses.

This is true for small LCDs but the power demands increase very sharply beyond the 22" size. The 24" LCDs use the same amount of power as 21/22" CRTs (usually between 90W and 120W, which is twice as much as most 22" LCDs) and the 30" ones are rated at 150-170W.

My 20WMGX2 puts out slightly less heat than my old 17" CRT. But it still puts out alot

 

[heyheybooboo]

I knew this thread would become a CRT / LCD field full of land mines

I like running a bunch of different resolutions and high refresh rates. I may have 1600x1200 on one monitor and 800x600 on a second monitor. Instead of zooming in and out of a drawing or graphic I have the window dragged across both screens. I just 'slide' the view over to the next monitor and I'm "zoomed'. Did that make sense?

If anyone remembers the old diamond ""InControl Tools"" you'll know what I'm talking about. Having a zoomed viewport you can move around in comes in very handy.

I'll pay someone if they can find me some similar tools these days to the old Diamond's - lol