New computer not booting anymore [concluded]

[Beace]

Edit: The post ended up long. The very short version, which probably won't be very useful: Motherboard sitting outside of computer case, won't POST, CPU LED shining red.


So, I built myself a new Sandy Bridge machine. These are the parts I feel could in any way be related to my problem

Asus P8P67 Pro
Core i7-2600k
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus
Cooler Master HAF X
In addition I'm using a Corsair TX 650 which I've moved over from my previous rig, I've been using it for about a year.

Now, I got it delivered yesterday, and have spent a lot of hours putting everything together. I was almost surprised when I pressed the power button the first time, and the computer actually booted (well, I got into BIOS, since no HD with OS to boot).

I looked around the bios for some 10-15 minutes, getting familiar. Then I upgraded the firmware to the latest version (1053 I believe), since a lot of people have been having memory problems with earlier versions. This is something I had planned ahead for days, I flashed it through the BIOS and a USB stick. The progress bar finished and the flash was complete, according to the computer. It rebooted itself, which as far as I know is supposed to happen.

Now I don't recall exactly what I did next. Either I turned it off before it could properly restart, to reset the BIOS (also planned ahead) through removing the battery and moving the jumper from pin 1-2 to 2-3. OR, the reboot went through fully, but my screen remained black, and that's when I remembered I was supposed to reset the BIOS.

Either way, the BIOS firmware got upgraded to the last version (successfully according to the computer when I did it), and then the BIOS was reset.

What happens next is that when I powered up the computer, the fans would start, but my monitor remained black. After some manual reading, looking around and testing, I see that the CPU LED is shining a bright red, no blinking just shining.

Here's where I am now. The motherboard is sitting outside the case, connected only to the 24 and 8 pin power connectors and the power wire from my case (so I can power up the mother board). I've removed and reseated the CPU cooler twice. This is what happens when I power the board up: CPU LED immediately starts to shine red, fans are spinning, and after ~10 seconds it reboots once. Same thing happens again, except the reboot only happens once, after that it just sits there. If I power it down manually, it'll start over (reboots after 10 seconds, then sits there fans spinning).

I am a bit worried about the pins in the CPU socket. To me they look to be kinda tilting, but after having googled some pictures it seems that might be normal? It's kinda hard to tell both in the pictures and in the socket exactly what angles the pins are at. I'll see if I can get some pictures up tomorrow, can't connect my camera to the old laptop I'm writing from atm.

Hope you guys have some ideas what it can be. While writing this, a few idea have popped into my head:

1) The metal plate on the back of the motherboard that the cpu cooler screws into is still there, one of few things I haven't removed.

2) The PSU is still located and screwed into the case, with the power cables running directly out to the motherboard that's sitting next to it. Maybe worth to take it out?

3) For the short period I had the computer running, the BIOS reported CPU temperature at 30C, which I'm taking as proof that the cooler was at least working.

4) What really puzzles me is that the computer was running perfect for 10-15 minutes, and then after a supposed successful BIOS firmware upgrade the computer completely fails on me like this.

5) If I remove the 8pin power connector from the motherboard, the computer appears to act exactly the same. Could it be broken? If I don't get any better ideas I could move the PSU back into my old computer and see if it's working correctly. Why would it suddenly break after BIOS firmware upgrade though?

6) If it's the socket pins that somehow are broken, would it show this way?

 

[Beace]

Update:

I have removed the CPU Cooler backplate from the motherboard. I have also tried the PSU in my old computer, it works fine (while still within my new case).

My main suspicion now would be either that the CPU socket pins are somehow broken, or that some electricity lines around that area have broken. I have inspected the motherboard closely, and I at least can't see anything weird looking. I also don't think there's anything wrong with the actual CPU chip really, at least I can't see anything on it.

But, it's also clear that the problem first arose either after a BIOS flash, or a BIOS reset. Could something have happend when I removed the battery? Anything in that area I could have accidently touched and broken? Or could the CMOS pins have something to do with it?

If it indeed was the CPU socket pins or some electricity lines in the area, why would the computer run just fine for some 10-15 minutes, and then stop?

 

[stargazr]

Did you try to re-flash the BIOS after you removed and re-installed the battery? If you initially got the board to POST and got into BIOS, probably the update flash failed. And then when you removed the battery it cleared the BIOS. I doubt the board is bad. If you installed the processor wrong I doubt it would have even turned on. Did you use thermal compound between the CPU and cooler (it might have been pre-applied by the manufacturer on the cooler)? It would have to be re-applied when re-assembling.

 

[Beace]

Hi,

I'm afraid I don't anywhere near far enough to try to re-flash the BIOS as things are right now. Unless there's some trick to it. I don't think the Asus P8P67 Pro have dual BIOS's, sadly.

I did use thermal paste on the cooler yeah, and as mentioned the CPU was running at 30C when I got into the BIOS at start. I have not kept reapplying paste while reassembling, since I feel I don't get far enough for it to matter. Currently I have the motherboard sitting on a cardbord outside the case, and every time I try to boot I simply place the heatsink on the CPU, no screws or anything. I must have removed and reinserted the CPU 6-8 times by now, and it's never felt warm.

A thought. If I place a finger directly on the CPU with no heatsink installed (I know you're not supposed to, but I'm getting desperate here) and power the board up. If the CPU remains cold with no temperature difference at all, could that conclude anything specific? 'Cause I'm pretty sure it would remain cold, it doesn't seem like there's any power going into it. Would it be a good idea to test this?


Another thought: Can a CPU be "half" dead? Or is it black and white, either it works or it doesn't? A few times I've tried to power the motherboard up without the CPU installed, and nothing happens (No fans, no LEDs lightning up). Soon as I insert the CPU I get back to the situation previously described (CPU LED shining red full time, with fans moving). Can I conclude that the CPU is working fine from this?

 

[stargazr]

Get a hold of yourself and stop randomly re-assembling everything and you MAY be able to salvage your CPU and board. First of all, don't EVER power up a computer with no thermal paste, if it is getting power like it's supposed to it will fry very quickly. Also do not power on your motherboard without a CPU.

When you originally flashed your BIOS, did you have any interruption(accidental power off etc)?

When installing your CPU, did you properly orient the mark as shown in the instructions? If so, the CPU should not be the problem. I never heard of a bad CPU from the factory. What condition it's in now is anyone's guess.

As to the CPU seemingly not heating up, that doesn't make sense. Again, is the CPU mounted correctly?

 

[Beace]

There is thermal paste both on the CPU and the heatsink, I just haven't kept washing it off and reapplying every time I've removed things. I realize that's not optimal, but certainly it must be fine for very short idle times. If I ever get things working I plan on redoing it properly.

When I flashed the BIOS, there was no problem (apparent anyway). The BIOS claimed the flashing completed successfully, and a few seconds later it automatically rebooted (which is when I powered it off to reset the BIOS).

I can't imagine that I managed to install the CPU incorrectly. I've done it several times in the past (though with older sockets). I removed the plastic thingy, and then inserted the CPU the only way it could be inserted (mark to mark, and with the holes on the CPU aligning with plastic on the socket). One thing though. The first time, the arm lever went down very easy, while I've read that it's supposed to be quite resistant. It only went this easy the first time, the times I've had it up since then it feels like there's more resistance when I move the arm lever down to lock the CPU in place.

I can't really say for sure if the CPU is heating up or not, but I haven't observed or felt any heat whatsoever for the short times I've had the motherboard powered up.

 

[stargazr]

Now I don't recall exactly what I did next. Either I turned it off before it could properly restart, to reset the BIOS (also planned ahead) through removing the battery and moving the jumper from pin 1-2 to 2-3. OR, the reboot went through fully, but my screen remained black, and that's when I remembered I was supposed to reset the BIOS. Either way, the BIOS firmware got upgraded to the last version (successfully according to the computer when I did it), and then the BIOS was reset.

So initially you flashed the latest BIOS version (which one?), then rebooted and took out the battery? Why? When I first read this I thought you reset the BIOS because your update failed.

 

[stargazr]

I think you did fine up until removing the battery. The CPU was probably installed properly for it to run for 15 min. And by your own admission the temp was fine, so you didn't need to take anything apart. However if your observation was correct that the CPU seemed harder to install the last few times you may have damaged the pins.

 

[Beace]

I had been reading up a lot on the board before I got it delivered. It was very clear that the best bet to avoid problems with memory and other stuff, you should update the BIOS. Additionally, many people have had problems when they did NOT reset the BIOS after the update. This is something I've also seen in other places now the last few days when I've googled around for solutions to my current problem. Far as I can tell it's the common practice to reset the BIOS after a flash upgrade. Is that not the case?

The upgrade in question was to "P8P67 Pro 1053 Beta BIOS" from fifth January. I know it says Beta in there, but this is the BIOS people have been upgrading to and running successfully.

I have been very worried about the pins, and maybe that is where the problem is, I made a post about it though: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2137361. The consensus seems to be that the pins look fine. There should apparently be two blocks of pins with different angels, which is what I've observed in my socket.

 

[mlc]

if the red cpu light is on... then it would seem to indicate one of 3 things...
1) Bad CPU
2) Bad Board
3) faulty bios

Honestly.. I would try reflashing the BIOS..

If you can no longer get any post.. Pull the cord then the battery... and reset the jumpers.. and pull the case out of the board. to ensure no type of short is coming in play etc.. and then retry

 

[BoomerD]

From ASUS:

Updating BIOS is serious business!
Every precaution should therefore be taken to prevent that anything goes wrong. Avoid ASUS UPDATE!
There are a couple a DOS alternatives, AFUDOS and BUPDATER (newer motherboards), that also are good and safe to use.

Note: AFUDOS (floppy drive) can only be used for BIOS files up to a size of 1 MB due to the limited storage capacity.

EZ Flash 2 is a built-in function of BIOS. It is the safest way to update BIOS, because one is not dependent on the operating system, any application, internet connection, firewall settings, antivirus or anything else that can put the vital BIOS update at risk.

On a new build, BIOS can be updated to the latest version before installation of the OS, which may possibly make the installation go smoother and safer.

Note: All what's said below about loading BIOS defaults also applies to the other BIOS update methods (ASUS Update, AFUDOS and BUPDATER)!

The PC should not be overclocked during the BIOS update! Always load and save BIOS defaults before and after a BIOS update (press <F5>). By loading and saving BIOS defaults before the update, CPU frequency, memory frequency and voltages are set to default (Auto).
Memory timings are set to SPD values which ensure that a PC with high performance memory that need a higher voltage than 1.8V for DDR2 or 1.5V for DDR3 is able to boot on the standard Memory Voltage. Save the default settings (press <F10>) before starting the update.

Preparation:

1. Document all your preferred BIOS settings (i.e. the settings you have changed from the default setting).
2. Download the BIOS file, which normally is compressed (zipped).
3. Extract (unzip) the BIOS file to a FAT/FAT32 formatted USB Flash Disk with only one partition (or to a Floppy Disk or a CD-ROM). If the unzipped BIOS file is named like e.g. 'P5B-ASUS-Deluxe-1101.ROM', you can rename it to 'P5BD1101.ROM'. Otherwise a truncated name will appear as 'P5B-AS~1.ROM' due to a limitation to max 8 characters in the filename (8.3).

Update:

1. Reboot.
2. Press (tap) <DEL> during POST (Power-On Self Test) to enter BIOS Setup.
3. Load BIOS Defaults (press <F5>).
4. Insert the USB Flash Disk containing the BIOS file P5BDxxxx.ROM. (Note that the USB Flash Disk has to be inserted before boot to enter BIOS, otherwise it won't be detected).
5. Save and Exit <F10>. (BIOS will now restart).
6. During BIOS restart, press <DEL> to enter BIOS Setup again.
7. Under Tools menu, select ASUS EZ Flash 2. It may take 20 seconds for the drives to show up. Select a drive in the left pane <Tab>. Use <Up> and <Down> arrows and <Enter> to select a drive. If you don't see the BIOS file in the right pane, check the other drives. Note that the drive letters may not be the same here as in Windows.
8. Select the BIOS file (e.g. P5BD1101.ROM) and press <Enter> to start flashing. Supervise the update, which includes the following stages: Erasing - Flashing (writing) - Verification. BIOS will automatically restart when the update is ready.
9. Disconnect the USB Flash Disk before/during the restart.
10. Perform a C.P.R. (CPU Parameter Recall) which resets the chipset. Power down, remove power cord from the PSU for 2 minutes and then power up.
11. Enter BIOS and load BIOS Defaults <F5> again.
12. Reenter your preferred BIOS settings - if you are using AHCI or RAID mode, don't forget to set the SATA mode to [AHCI / RAID]. Also remember the settings for other controllers, Audio and Memory Voltage. Check also that the Boot Device Priority is correct.
13. Save and Exit <F10> (automatic restart).
14. Press <DEL> to enter BIOS Setup and make a final check that all BIOS settings are ok. Save any changes.

 

[C1]

Yes, firmware updates involve some risk. IMO these are to be done only if determined to be absolutely necessary or as a last resort as there is always a chance that the hardware will become permanently "hosed".

I never build a computer from scratch for the reasons being experienced. An assembled & tested MB is what I buy as that is the computer.

However, I understand the desire to do this (like taking on a mountain climb challenge).
So when building from scratch, the plan is to try to eliminate as many variables as possible & to get a core (ie, as few parts as possible) machine operating and checked out. DONT GO INTRODUCING COMPLICATIONS LIKE FLASHING BIOSes UNTIL YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE BASIC MACHINE (MB) WORKS OR HOW WELL IT WORKS! Now you dont know if it is a bad component (eg, CPU, MB) or some procedure that was done inappropriately/incorrectly.

Probably all you can do is begin at the bottom and keep working the problem in slightly different combinations until a solution becomes within range. Alternatively you may have to "bite the bullet" and have a properly equipped shop assemble & test the MB. If you've hosed the MB, then you may have to lie and send it back as defective, but the MB manufacturer will know that a flash update was attempted.

 

[Beace]

Thanks for the answers.

Honestly.. I would try reflashing the BIOS..

If you can no longer get any post.. Pull the cord then the battery... and reset the jumpers.. and pull the case out of the board. to ensure no type of short is coming in play etc.. and then retry

I already have the board outside the case, and I've more or less done what you describe a number of times by now. I've used the power switch on the PSU though. I think over the night I'll pull the cord, remove the battery and leave the jumper on reset CMOS. I doubt it'll change anything, but worth a try.

From ASUS:

EZ Flash 2 is a built-in function of BIOS. It is the safest way to update BIOS, because one is not dependent on the operating system, any application, internet connection, firewall settings, antivirus or anything else that can put the vital BIOS update at risk.

10. Perform a C.P.R. (CPU Parameter Recall) which resets the chipset. Power down, remove power cord from the PSU for 2 minutes and then power up.

EZ Flash 2 was the method used, and as mentioned it claimed the flashing was successful before rebooting. But who knows. Step 10 is basically the only thing I can say to have done different. Instead of what's described above I hit the off-switch on the PSU, removed the battery, and moved the CMOS jumper. I honestly can't see how resetting the BIOS this way can have damaged anything, I've done it lots of times on older computers.

I never build a computer from scratch for the reasons being experienced. An assembled & tested MB is what I buy as that is the computer.

However, I understand the desire to do this (like taking on a mountain climb challenge).
So when building from scratch, the plan is to try to eliminate as many variables as possible & to get a core (ie, as few parts as possible) machine operating and checked out. DONT GO INTRODUCING COMPLICATIONS LIKE FLASHING BIOSes UNTIL YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE BASIC MACHINE (MB) WORKS OR HOW WELL IT WORKS! Now you dont know if it is a bad component (eg, CPU, MB) or some procedure that was done inappropriately/incorrectly.

Probably all you can do is begin at the bottom and keep working the problem in slightly different combinations until a solution becomes within range. Alternatively you may have to "bite the bullet" and have a properly equipped shop assemble & test the MB. If you've hosed the MB, then you may have to lie and send it back as defective, but the MB manufacturer will know that a flash update was attempted.

I think you have a very good point. I felt the 15 minutes I spent in the BIOS was enough to feel secure enough to do a flash upgrade. And as mentioned above, the BIOS did claim the upgrade was successful. In the future I'm certainly gonna be more careful though.

I pretty much feel I have tried everything I can, except testing the CPU or motherboard in another computer, don't really have the means to do that (noone I know have a computer that supports the new Sandy Bridge). I think I'll end up trying to get a replacement board, or worst case simply buy a new one.

 

[BoomerD]

Can you get into the bios at all now?

If so, you might be able to re-flash the bios.

 

[Beace]

Nope, I have no access to the BIOS. All that happens on powerup is that fans start to move and the CPU LED goes red. If I connect my graphics card, it powers up and its fan starts to spin as well, but I get no video showing up on my monitor. Nor does it seem to reply to any keyboard commands (hard to tell since I can't see anything, but I'm pretty certain).

It feels like the problem occurs extremely early during the POST, before the BIOS even comes into play. I could be mistaken on that though.

 

[C1]

Yes, that was never clear (ie, whether or not you can still get into the BIOS). If you can, then the MB most likely is OK (or at least not hosed because of the re-flash), but you should put on your list of things to try (at some point of desperation) is to RESTORE THE BIOS TO ORIGINAL.

If you are unable to enter the BIOS, then in all probability the MB is "hosed".

Also, study your MB documentation carefully as sometimes there are misprints. You may not be connecting the correct pins or properly resetting the BIOS.

NEVER CONNECT/DISCONNECT THINGS (PARTICULARLY ON THE MB) WHEN POWER IS BEING APPLIED/OR IS ACTIVE (or you can easily damage/take out a chip).

 

[Beace]

Is it bad practice to simply use the power switch at the back of the PSU? That's how I've always done it over the years, and until now I've never managed to break anything (if I indeed have now). Is it necessary to physically remove the cord to be "safe"? (In addition to grounding yourself of course)

 

[C1]

Because of the number of times you are going to be plugging/unplugging things, just to be safe, pull the plug from back of the case, make your changes then reinsert the plug and enable to the PSU to resume testing. In this way, you will be more sure not make a power issue mistake.

 

[mlc]

... using the power switch on the back of the cpu is fine.. When you try cold booting.. try holding the power switch for a few extra seconds.....

.. with the board outside the case.. did you disconnect all of the the peripherals? You only want the cpu, graphics card, and 1 stick of memory connected. nothing else... Disconnect all drives.. and any usb connectors on the board to rule out some sort of short....

these boards have a rep of being very picky with RAM.. what RAM are you using, and how many sticks? do you have any other ram you can try?

when you reattached the cpu backplate.. are you 100% certain you assembled it correctly? if something from that plate is shorting out against the board.. that would cause a problem...

try the graphics card in another slot...

 

[T101]

You need to RMA that board, because you bricked the Bios update. Never ever reset bios, or cut power, before it has fully posted after a bios update. I have not checked if the bios chip on these motherboards are socketed or not, but if it is, a bios saviour would be a good investment (since they lack dual bios feature).

 

[Beace]

... using the power switch on the back of the cpu is fine.. When you try cold booting.. try holding the power switch for a few extra seconds.....

.. with the board outside the case.. did you disconnect all of the the peripherals? You only want the cpu, graphics card, and 1 stick of memory connected. nothing else... Disconnect all drives.. and any usb connectors on the board to rule out some sort of short....

these boards have a rep of being very picky with RAM.. what RAM are you using, and how many sticks? do you have any other ram you can try?

when you reattached the cpu backplate.. are you 100&#37; certain you assembled it correctly? if something from that plate is shorting out against the board.. that would cause a problem...

try the graphics card in another slot...

I don't have anything other than the absolute minimum connected, not even any memory or video card. It doesn't make any difference what I put in or take out, I get the same error. I've also removed the CPU backplate, and have not reinstalled it.

You need to RMA that board, because you bricked the Bios update. Never ever reset bios, or cut power, before it has fully posted after a bios update. I have not checked if the bios chip on these motherboards are socketed or not, but if it is, a bios saviour would be a good investment (since they lack dual bios feature).

If it is as you say, that might just be it. I could very well have turned off the power before POST just after the BIOS update, I can't recall for certain how fast I was. I started the RMA process this morning, I can only hope it goes through properly and that a new board will indeed solve my problems.

Funny thing is, if I hadn't read as much about the board as I have, and hadn't planned everything ahead, chances are I'd have taken things slower and more careful, and things might have been fine.

 

[mlc]

i'm confused.. How do you expect to see if your posting without the graphics card and monitor attached ?

Minimally you must install the CPU, PSU, Graphics Card and a stick of RAM, otherwise the POST will fail....

.. and how can you power up without the cpu backer plate attached to your board ?

 

[Beace]

I can tell because the CPU LED remains red. I've also doublechecked by temporarily putting in a graphics card and monitor. This is also why I'm thinking it fails during the POST, before the BIOS comes into play.

I've simply applied the big heatsink to the CPU when I've tried booting up, no need for the backplate. There hasn't been any heating issues.

 

[mlc]

to be clear.. you're most current issue is that you can not post into bios.. correct?

.. if that's the case, you need the ram and graphics card installed..

Forget the LED's and what you think they mean..and forget what you think about overheating, etc.. and put the backplate back on, with the hsf mounted properly ..

 

[C1]

What mlc says is true.

If you look in the MB manual, it will show the necessary assembly steps & instructions.

Follow them!