New car prices are so low ...

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,846
351
136
Today I agreed to go with a co-worker who was looking to replace their aging Mercury Mystique with a smaller import econobox.

We arrive at the dealership and I'm upfront with the sales guy showing him a copy of The Oregonian's loss leader ad, we're here for the Civic loss leaders. They had 4 but sold 2, and 2 were left. One was green and one was red, she opted for the eco-friendly green color. So we test drive and that takes 30 minutes, he let us drive wherever we wanted to which was pretty cool. He answered all of her questions (which I could have answered but I figure he's gotta work for his $). We get back to the dealership and here's the part I regret ... sitting down and "let's talk numbers", I'm like what numbers? We're going to pay >THIS< price not a penny above it, he says let me talk to my manager. After 5 agonizing minutes he returns and says ok but they'll do the deal only if we get the $1400 extended warranty _AND_ $795 NorthWest Protection Package, then I lost my cool and went off on him saying a lot of not so nice things (no swear words). So he says he's gotta talk to his manager again, by now my co-worker thinks I'm a maniac but I tell her relax I've got it under control. Then they come back claiming the car that we test drove was NOT the loss leader and has already been sold that we have to pay the MSRP "Sticker" price, so I march outside comparing the VIN number in the loss leader ad against the VIN on the car we test drove, 100% match, it is 1 of the 4 loss leader ad cars. So I march back in, go off on him again, this time it works and he caves in. The whole application / approval / signing process takes about 30 minutes so we wasted about 40 minutes in negotiations.

But she walked away paying the price in the ad which I think was around $13,244 for a 2002 Honda Civic LX automatic then we proceeded to Car Toys and got a Clifford Matrix 2 car alarm installed with trunk pin for $369.

Aside from seeing K-19: The Widowmaker and eating at Denny's that was the highlight of my day.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
I'm gonna be honest I have no clue what a loss leader is lol...but you sure better get the advertised price lol
 

Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
15,488
5
81
Tis a good thing to take RossMAN car shopping with you.

Little did he know he was fooling with the king of the Ferengi ;)
 

N8Magic

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
11,624
1
81
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

You can't let those slimeball car dealers rip you off. You did the right thing by keeping your cool... if you get rude/insulting it just makes things more difficult.

I love being an educated consumer and schooling salespeople who think they're sooooo smooth. When I bought my car, I made the guy an offer and he says "Hmm. Let me look up our price on the car...", and I say "Here's the dealer price on the car. I'm willing to offer you this much, take it or leave it. If you don't give me that price, i'll find a dealer who will."

Needless to say, "negotiations" took all of 10 minutes. :D
 

N8Magic

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
11,624
1
81
Originally posted by: Deeko
I'm gonna be honest I have no clue what a loss leader is lol...but you sure better get the advertised price lol

Loss leader = legalized bait & switch scam

Dealers advertise a car in the newspaper at a ridiculously low price saying "ONE ONLY!" or something like that. Once you GET to the dealer, the car is either "sold" or comes in a crappy color. Then they try to sell you on another model that isn't quite so discounted, and get quite pushy about it.
 

PsychoAndy

Lifer
Dec 31, 2000
10,735
0
0
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Tis a good thing to take RossMAN car shopping with you.

Little did he know he was fooling with the king of the Ferengi ;)

HEY!!!!!!!
PsychoAndy's first rule of "Hot Deal" New Car buying:

ITS NOT A HOT DEAL UNLESS YOUR PARENTS LAUNCH INTO CURSING OUT THE SALESMAN IN CANTONESE!
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Holy god, you're an animal! Wish you were around Toronto when I negotiated a measly $900 CDN off the sticker price of a Nissan Sentra GXE. :eek: Wasn't a loss leader though.

It's really paining me to read car ads these days after our purchase. There's a deal for a Mazda Protege5 loaded with 0.9% financing up to 36 months that particularly made me wince...
 

N8Magic

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
11,624
1
81
Holy god, you're an animal! Wish you were around Toronto when I negotiated a measly $900 CDN off the sticker price of a Nissan Sentra GXE.

You could have called the president of the Canadian chapter you know. :p

In all actuality though, $900.00 off a Sentra GXE is pretty good. Lower priced cars have very small margins compared to the luxury yacht type cars.
 

PsychoAndy

Lifer
Dec 31, 2000
10,735
0
0
Originally posted by: N8Magic
Holy god, you're an animal! Wish you were around Toronto when I negotiated a measly $900 CDN off the sticker price of a Nissan Sentra GXE.

You could have called the president of the Canadian chapter you know. :p

That reminds me....we still need to have a formal discussion as to appoint the regional ferengi leaders.

N8- Chief Ferengi, Canadian Division
baffled2-Excellent Canidate for New England
Ross- Undisputed Chief of the Pacific Northwest
Me- Chief Ferengi of Florida

Theres so much we still need to do.....

 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,846
351
136
I prefer the title Grand Nagus or Ferengi Czar for the Peoples.

I came equipped with Edmunds.com print outs, etc. but I didn't have to whip out that ammo.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: N8Magic
You could have called the president of the Canadian chapter you know. :p

In all actuality though, $900.00 off a Sentra GXE is pretty good. Lower priced cars have very small margins compared to the luxury yacht type cars.
hehe, I know. :) Decided to be a smart@ss and do it on my own. Only really had two days to do it in anyway, and I justified it to myself with the smaller margins bit as well. :p
Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
baffled2-Excellent Canidate for New England
I didn't know baff was part of the Ferengi Empire. What's she done to establish herself in the Great Hierachy?
 

PsychoAndy

Lifer
Dec 31, 2000
10,735
0
0
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: N8Magic
You could have called the president of the Canadian chapter you know. :p

In all actuality though, $900.00 off a Sentra GXE is pretty good. Lower priced cars have very small margins compared to the luxury yacht type cars.
hehe, I know. :) Decided to be a smart@ss and do it on my own. Only really had two days to do it in anyway, and I justified it to myself with the smaller margins bit as well. :p
Originally posted by: PsychoAndy
baffled2-Excellent Canidate for New England
I didn't know baff was part of the Ferengi Empire. What's she done to establish herself in the Great Hierachy?

i've found out via aim that our wonderful trout wielding baff is a fairly active trader and mad coupon user

we dont have many people in boston that are active members of the ferengis
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,092
591
126
That's cool. My dad managed to buy a loss leader last year. He picked up an '01 Camry CE for $14K. 6 months later, blue book was higher then what he paid.
 

Tangerine

Senior member
Jul 25, 2001
555
0
0
WTG Rossman! Auto negotiation isn't for the faint of heart!

And I love the "let me go talk to my manager" line! Really they rarely go talk to their managers, they just want you to think you going over their heads.

Dealers have gotten into a lot of trouble around here for false advertising, so if you stand up to them on it, they start to sweat a little :D
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,374
8,498
126
you should have a phone with the attorney general's office number programmed into it and start ringing it when they try that BS.

i went into a ford dealer with an xplan in hand and guy told me so much BS it was incredible. first he told me that the rate was better than the rebate, which was against everything i had seen (my calculator spreadsheet from carbuyingtips.com, ford's own calculator on their website, etc.) and i told him so, and he said that my figures (and ford's own website) didn't matter because it was his computer that they did the stuff on. i should have walked out right then. ah well. i didn't sign anything. i should go run my credit and see if the bastards ran it. that would be a nice fine right there.
 

jamautosound

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2000
6,754
0
76
RossMAN good job on the forced negotiation.

I remember you mentioning something about a loss leader website in the works. How's that coming along?

Also, do they have loss leader sales on SUV's? I'm looking to get either a Expedition or a Pilot.

T.I.A.:)
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,846
351
136
NutBucket - Your Dad really lucked out, first of all he got a great deal on a Camry CE and the blue book was higher than he paid? LOL I'd love to be in that situation. Holy sh!t I just went to Kelley Blue Book online selected 2002, Honda, Accord SE, automatic, miles 796, zip 97206, added the power seat, excellent condition and it estimates my car's value at $22,115 that's insane I only paid $17,244 for it. How can it be $5,000 higher than I originally paid? What about all this "depreciation" talk I keep hearing about?

Tangerine - Yeah I don't think they actually go and talk to a manager it's just one of the many tricks they have up their sleeves.

ElFenix - Before buying my new car last month and helping my friend out this weekend I requested brochures from the Oregon State Attorney General's office, I also had BBB phone numbers with me, Honda headquarters CEO's name, etc. the works.

jamautosound - I haven't really looked for SUV's but I'll see what I can find when I go home, definitely no loss leaders on the hot new Honda Pilot, you're gonna pay whatever they want you to pay the same goes for the CR-V and Odyssey.
 

Booster

Diamond Member
May 4, 2002
4,380
0
0
This success story makes me feel low and worthless. I never, never negotiate! I got ripped off. They just tell me 'take it at our price or leave' aaarhhhggg....
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
6,369
0
71
Originally posted by: Adul
someone care to explain to me what loss leader is, wher to find it, etc

A loss leader technically is a product sold at a loss just to entice the client into the store. Grocery stores are notorious for it: it is usually milk or another common staple. They make it a staple because they know most if not all people use it and they know that if you go to their store you will likely pick up other items while you are there.

I have never heard about loss leaders for products like a car because clients will hardly ever buy anything else while in the store/dealership. The only way to make this profitable is to severly limit the quantity (like 1 or 2) and/or employ bait and switch tatics.

Rossman,

How do you find the car loss leaders? Are they in newspapers? websites? Thanks.

 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,846
351
136
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Rossman,

How do you find the car loss leaders? Are they in newspapers? websites? Thanks.

Local Saturday and Sunday newspaper, turn to the classifieds section which should be plastered with new car ads ... it's not like it's a huge secret or anything, I'm surprised that more people don't know about them.
 

Thegonagle

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2000
9,773
0
71
Originally posted by: Tangerine
WTG Rossman! Auto negotiation isn't for the faint of heart!

And I love the "let me go talk to my manager" line! Really they rarely go talk to their managers, they just want you to think you going over their heads.

No, they do talk to the manager. The manager is like the God of the car lot. He controls each and every sale in the place, and nothing, I mean nothing happens to the price of the car without him knowing. The salesman has no power to change a price. The salesman hardly even has the authority to sell at full sticker.
 

jamautosound

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2000
6,754
0
76
Originally posted by: RossMAN
jamautosound - I haven't really looked for SUV's but I'll see what I can find when I go home, definitely no loss leaders on the hot new Honda Pilot.

Thanks RossMAN, and that's what I figured about the Honda. We went to one dealership just to see if I fit in the thing, (6'7", 285#) and they wanted $6,000 over MSRP + their markup, added value bull$#!+.

Although, I did fit in the Pilot, and I would like it quite a bit more than the Ford, if anything, for the gas mileage.