New Build, Several Questions

[SingleUseUser]

Hello. For your reading convenience I have separated and spoilered the separate sections of my post. I can edit it out if you find it annoying.

Basic Info
Usage: Gaming, Video watching, General "Internets"ing
Budget: Undecided, but somewhere in the 1.5k to 3k range
Place of purchase: Canada, Probably newegg
Brand Preference: None
Using any current Parts:Yes, Keyboard,mouse,speakers/headphones,A SSD, and possibly the OS
Overclocking: Yes, But mildly
Resolution:1080,1200 or 1440
When: Depends on Ivy bridge/Kepler but before the end of may

I game quite a bit, and watch quite a bit of Youtube/Netflix/Tv Content, but nothing too Demanding. While my current computer has served me decently for 6 years, the fact that it has slowly been appearing below the recommended requirements for more and more games and never really been good has spurred me to get a new system. I'm looking to get at least 5 ,possibly as many as 10, years of good fluid(Not maxed) service out of this new computer.

Also Note that I have basically spent the last 3 years watching the market and lurking in forums like this, so I do know enough to understand the important things, its more the specifics that I'm unsure on.

CPU
Considering: Ivybridge 3570k/3770k

I have chosen one of these two to be my cpu, mainly still deciding on my budget to chose between them. I still do have a question though.

This question assumes that ivy behaves the same way as sandy.
What is the functional difference between base freq(not BLK)and turbo freq overclocking? (i.e. Whats the difference between a 2500 at 4.1turbo on single core and a 2500K at 4.1 base/no turbo assuming 1 thread) Is there even any difference? Do the idle states change anything in this scenario?


GPU/Display
Considering: (GPU)7850,7870,7950 or Kepler competitors (Display) Dell U2412, Alienware AW231, U2711

How much I eventually end up spending and the resolution will mainly determine my GPU, but the display is where im having problems.
My most notable problem with my current display has been harsh vertical viewing angles as I use a couch instead of a chair and like to lie down to watch videos. This leads me to an IPS display, however because I game alot, I'm not sure if I would be better served going for a 120hz display. Further complicating things Is whether or not to go up in resolution to 1440p for better looks and that I don't really care about fps over 60 for the 120hz.
Considering this, what would you recommend I go for?


Dell monitors were only chosen as from what I've been able to find they're good quality and I'm willing to wait for their good/frequent sales to buy one (not going to pay full price for any of the dells)

Also, does what input I use matter at all or should I just use hdmi?

Storage
I'm more looking for a straight recommendation here. I currently have an OCZ agility 2 60gb and a 150gb hard drive and I'm not entirely sure as to what I should get as far as storage is concerned. I don't usually have too much besides games and a few other programs but I am also considering getting a Tv Tuner and I have no idea how much space ill need to record stuff(more on that later).

I would like to: A) Get another, bigger SSD(around 120gb) In addition to my current one. B) Get a 750gb-1.5tb drive and put around 100gb from the old one on it. C) Have some form of backup for all the drives(Not that I have anything really important but It would be nice to have).
How should I have my storage arranged?

What Im mostly considering is to have Something like this:
Drive 1:120ish SSD of some variety with OS and games. Drive 2: Current SSD with games when drive 1 gets full. Drive 3:750-1.5 HDD All non game programs/files + the 100G from the old one. Drive 4: 1tb+ using just plain windows backup for all the others: Drive 5: The old HDD.

SSD brands is something im looking at, with mainly Intel/Plextor/Crucial in my main sights. A bit wary about getting a cheaper one as my current SSD was gotten by RMAing a friends dead one.
Any recommendations here are really appreciated as I'm really not sure what to do.

Also 8gb or 16gb of ram. Have seen conflicting opinions as to how well the OS handles unused ram for caching. But with how cheap it is...

Case/Cooling
Considering: (Case) Antec 300v2 (Cpu cooler) Hyper 212+
I don't care at all about looks or noise, so I haven't looked too hard at these categories. I'm mainly just looking to get good cooling value and maybe some dust filters on the case.
These two seem to be regarded as solid choices, but I'm open to suggestions if you think something would suit me better.

OS
Considering: Win7, Win8
I've been stuck on this for awhile. 7 seems great and I have no qualms about getting the upgrade edition from my current xp(then transferring the OS over to one of the SSD). However, 8 seems like 7+ and then metro. Since I spend less then 1% of my time actually navigating the OS or using the start menu, 8's under the hood improvements seem like they should be more then enough to make me not care about metro. I would have to use the consumer preview as my main OS till the real one came out, then reinstall, which may not be the best for drivers/stability/Convenience.
Should I go with win7 for stable drivers, or use win8 consumer till the real thing comes out?


I also would not change OS's after I bought one.
The Rest(PSU, Mobo, TV Tuner)
Considering: (PSU) Seasonic X650 (mobo) z77/z75 ATX/mATX
Psu is a highly recommended one, and cant really decide on a mobo till they actually come out.

Tv Tuner cards are something of a mystery to me however. From what little I know, I would like a dual tuner (so I can watch and record at the same time). However i'm unclear on Brands, formats, storage usage of recorded content, whether to use companies programs or media center. Any enlightenment in this area would be appreciated.

Thank you for your responses and please tell me if I missed anything that could be important to my new build.

 

[Ken g6]

I'm looking to get at least 5 ,possibly as many as 10, years of good fluid(Not maxed) service out of this new computer.

"The best way to future-proof is to save money and spend it on future products." - me, in Zap's sig. I therefore suggest you spend about $1000 now, up to $500 in 2-3 years for a new GPU, $1000 in 3-5 years on a new system, and so on. To find a $1000 system when Ivy/Kepler come out, follow [thread=2192841]Mfenn's thread[/thread].

It's hard to comment on hardware that isn't even out and reviewed yet. As for TV tuner cards, if you're not using two all the time, I suggest that one should be USB. Beyond that...are you getting Over The Air or cable signals? I presume Canada uses ATSC just like us (US ) for OTA. I have no idea if there are different cable standards up there.

 

[SingleUseUser]

"The best way to future-proof is to save money and spend it on future products." - me, in Zap's sig. I therefore suggest you spend about $1000 now, up to $500 in 2-3 years for a new GPU, $1000 in 3-5 years on a new system, and so on. To find a $1000 system when Ivy/Kepler come out, follow [thread=2192841]Mfenn's thread[/thread].

I'm well aware of that, but I'm lazy, and don't really need top of the line performance. I want to get a good computer now, so I dont have to get 5 more along the line. I would get more performance for cheaper, but it honestly doesn't bug me. I'm fine if I have to run games on med settings in 6 years, as long as they play smoothly. And who knows, I may end up getting more anyways.

It's hard to comment on hardware that isn't even out and reviewed yet.

I realize that, but If anyone has heard anything that I haven't (piledriver comes out in 2 weeks with a higher IPC and clock then Ivy) then feel free to share. The majority of my questions involve stuff thats already out anyways.

As for TV tuner cards, if you're not using two all the time, I suggest that one should be USB. Beyond that...are you getting Over The Air or cable signals? I presume Canada uses ATSC just like us (US ) for OTA. I have no idea if there are different cable standards up there.

Now you just confused me. I was under the impression that a single card(a dual tuner) could do both, but you're making it seem like I need 2 cards, and one of them should be usb.
As for signals, no Idea, I was just planning on hooking up my cable and mainly using it instead of my tv + PVR capabilities

 

[DSF]

I'm well aware of that, but I'm lazy, and don't really need top of the line performance. I want to get a good computer now, so I dont have to get 5 more along the line. I would get more performance for cheaper, but it honestly doesn't bug me. I'm fine if I have to run games on med settings in 6 years, as long as they play smoothly. And who knows, I may end up getting more anyways.

I think what you'll find though, is that there's no guarantee of ANY home computer built today running games smoothly on medium in 6 years. In the world of computers there is a very definite point of diminishing returns. The best tech right now is half as powerful as the mid-range in a couple years, while also being twice as expensive.

Your strawman of needing to build five computers along the way is silly.

You build now, drop in a graphics card in 2 years. (Which takes what, 20 minutes at the most?) Then you rebuild in 4-5 years, which takes a couple hours if you're out of practice. So for the amount of money you're going to spend on this, and the amount of time you'll spend playing - let's be conservative and say 2000 hours over 8 years - you can't take four hours to maintain it AND get a longer-lasting machine than you would by spending all your money now?

 

[Zap]

I realize that, but If anyone has heard anything that I haven't (piledriver comes out in 2 weeks with a higher IPC and clock then Ivy) then feel free to share.

Nothing besides the new Intel CPUs and new Nvidia cards. Since you were thinking along those lines anyways, may as well plan for the new system around the release of those parts. Thus, I would recommend you come back AFTER reviews are out for both the new CPUs and GPUs. That way we know where they stand in the relative scheme of performance and pricing.

I think what you'll find though, is that there's no guarantee of ANY home computer built today running games smoothly on medium in 6 years.

This is also what I think. Think of the latest and most demanding games out right now, such as Battlefield 3. What computer built 6 years ago without any subsequent upgrade can play this game?

 

[T_Yamamoto]

can you please get rid of that spoiler thing? its extremely annoying

 

[Charlie98]

can you please get rid of that spoiler thing? its extremely annoying

:thumbsup:

 

[SingleUseUser]

I think what you'll find though, is that there's no guarantee of ANY home computer built today running games smoothly on medium in 6 years. In the world of computers there is a very definite point of diminishing returns. The best tech right now is half as powerful as the mid-range in a couple years, while also being twice as expensive.

Actually I'm surprised at how many of the non top tier graphics games (battlefield 3, metro 2033 etc.) I can still run on my PoS comp. Maybe medium is asking a bit much, but low at a lower res then my max with min 30fps I would certainly think is doable.

Your strawman of needing to build five computers along the way is silly.

It is silly, but technically it would give me the highest performance/$(get every tick from intel, and probably every second generation of graphics).

You build now, drop in a graphics card in 2 years. (Which takes what, 20 minutes at the most?) Then you rebuild in 4-5 years, which takes a couple hours if you're out of practice. So for the amount of money you're going to spend on this, and the amount of time you'll spend playing - let's be conservative and say 2000 hours over 8 years - you can't take four hours to maintain it AND get a longer-lasting machine than you would by spending all your money now?

It is also very possible that I will end up upgrading, then making another if I no longer am satisfied by my comp. But I don't really know how I'm going to feel about upgrading/ making a new one 5 years down the line. I'd rather plan ahead thinking that I wont, and then leave the option of doing so open.

Nothing besides the new Intel CPUs and new Nvidia cards. Since you were thinking along those lines anyways, may as well plan for the new system around the release of those parts. Thus, I would recommend you come back AFTER reviews are out for both the new CPUs and GPUs. That way we know where they stand in the relative scheme of performance and pricing.

Fair enough, however I will once again point out that basically all of my questions deal with current tech or assume that the new stuff with behave like the old stuff.

This is also what I think. Think of the latest and most demanding games out right now, such as Battlefield 3. What computer built 6 years ago without any subsequent upgrade can play this game?

Well the first gen core2's and 8800 GTX's are only really 5 1/2 years old, and those are powerful enough to run most modern games. Probably on low, with sub 20 min fps at 1024x768 but still. That's not even mentioning all the non top-tier (graphically) games like ME3, Darkness 2, Most console ports, anything by valve, most indies etc...

My options are open and expectations low for what I will have in 6 years, but considering my current comp was unable to max anything, and really failed in general for the last 6 years and im only upgrading now, I think I'll be satisfied with a comp that maxes things now in 6 years time.

can you please get rid of that spoiler thing? its extremely annoying

:thumbsup:

Done

 

[mfenn]

I agree with Ken, DSF, and Zap. You're not going to be able to build a machine today that is going to last 6 years of gaming with any expectation of quality.

I think that most people are getting bogged down in your wall o' text. Obviously, we can't give you detailed parts recommendations at this early stage, but if you have some more general questions, would you mind laying them out succinctly?

 

[Ken g6]

What is the functional difference between base freq(not BLK)and turbo freq overclocking? (i.e. Whats the difference between a 2500 at 4.1turbo on single core and a 2500K at 4.1 base/no turbo assuming 1 thread) Is there even any difference? Do the idle states change anything in this scenario?

That's a very good question. Maybe even highly technical. I would expect that:

A processor would operate at idle (1.6GHz, 1V) unless a process demands some large percentage of a core at that speed.

I would then expect that the processor would operate at normal (3.3GHz or whatever) unless a process demands some large percentage of a core at that speed.

I would then expect that the processor would operate at turbo unless certain time or thermal limits are reached. (These obstacles are generally removed on K-series processors when overclocking.)

But I really don't know if that's what happens.

You might start a thread in Video Cards and Graphics just to ask about the display. I believe HDMI == DVI unless even if you're playing blu-rays. (With official blu-ray software on Windows.) In which case only HDMI either will work. (Maybe. )

For storage, I'd say seem Mfenn's $1000 build thread for basic storage; then get a NAS for backup.

 

[SingleUseUser]

I agree with Ken, DSF, and Zap. You're not going to be able to build a machine today that is going to last 6 years of gaming with any expectation of quality.

Maybe its just because my current comp wasn't great when I first got it, yet it still manages to deal (although barely) with most games I try at lowest settings, even after 6 years, that I think that an actually good comp should last me the same time or longer.

I think that most people are getting bogged down in your wall o' text. Obviously, we can't give you detailed parts recommendations at this early stage, but if you have some more general questions, would you mind laying them out succinctly?

Well I bolded and edited a bit to help. Unfortunately these forums don't have the nice collapsible spoilers to help deal with text walls. Do you think I would be better off cannibalizing this thread and creating several new ones in their appropriate areas?

That's a very good question. Maybe even highly technical. I would expect that:

A processor would operate at idle (1.6GHz, 1V) unless a process demands some large percentage of a core at that speed.

I would then expect that the processor would operate at normal (3.3GHz or whatever) unless a process demands some large percentage of a core at that speed.

I would then expect that the processor would operate at turbo unless certain time or thermal limits are reached. (These obstacles are generally removed on K-series processors when overclocking.)

But I really don't know if that's what happens.

That's kinda what I was thinking would happen, but I'm not sure. While its not super important, it really just comes down to which value I change while overclocking.

You might start a thread in Video Cards and Graphics just to ask about the display. I believe HDMI == DVI unless even if you're playing blu-rays. (With official blu-ray software on Windows.) In which case only HDMI either will work. (Maybe. )

Since I won't be playing blu-rays then it really shouldn't matter which one I use? Seems good to me. Although does Display Port change anything?

For storage, I'd say seem Mfenn's $1000 build thread for basic storage; then get a NAS for backup.

That's basically what Im planning, but I'd rather have everything in 1 box. I Suppose it is something to keep in mind.

 

[Zap]

Do you think I would be better off cannibalizing this thread and creating several new ones in their appropriate areas?

No. If you ONLY had a question about something specific, then yes post in the appropriate forum. Since this is for a complete system, keep on truckin' in this thread. :thumbsup:

That's basically what Im planning, but I'd rather have everything in 1 box. I Suppose it is something to keep in mind.

There is a bit more risk involved with your data if it isn't kept physically separate.

 

[mfenn]

This question assumes that ivy behaves the same way as sandy.
What is the functional difference between base freq(not BLK)and turbo freq overclocking? (i.e. Whats the difference between a 2500 at 4.1turbo on single core and a 2500K at 4.1 base/no turbo assuming 1 thread) Is there even any difference? Do the idle states change anything in this scenario?

Raising the maximum turbo frequency does just that, it raises the maximum turbo frequency. The CPU itself will determine if there is enough load to justify clocking up and enough TDP headroom to maintain that clock. Setting a BCLK forces the CPU to always run at a given speed (C-states notwithstanding). All things being equal, the BCLK overclock will be slightly higher performance because there is a delay between when you ask for full turbo and when you actually get it (few tens of microseconds).

C-states are independent from Turbo, they will operate in either overclocking scenario. However, you will likely find that you need to disable them because they will droop the voltage too low to maintain stability while OCed.

GPU/Display
Considering: (GPU)7850,7870,7950 or Kepler competitors (Display) Dell U2412, Alienware AW231, U2711

How much I eventually end up spending and the resolution will mainly determine my GPU, but the display is where im having problems.
My most notable problem with my current display has been harsh vertical viewing angles as I use a couch instead of a chair and like to lie down to watch videos. This leads me to an IPS display, however because I game alot, I'm not sure if I would be better served going for a 120hz display. Further complicating things Is whether or not to go up in resolution to 1440p for better looks and that I don't really care about fps over 60 for the 120hz.
Considering this, what would you recommend I go for?

IPS and *VA panels are king when it comes to viewing angles. 120Hz displays are nice, but not worth sacrificing viewing angles for, especially not in your usage scenario.

Also, does what input I use matter at all or should I just use hdmi?

HDMI should be your last resort for connecting a PC to a monitor. DVI and DP are much higher bandwidth and can display a wider range of resolutions (especially important if you get a >1080P display)

I would like to: A) Get another, bigger SSD(around 120gb) In addition to my current one. B) Get a 750gb-1.5tb drive and put around 100gb from the old one on it. C) Have some form of backup for all the drives(Not that I have anything really important but It would be nice to have).
How should I have my storage arranged?

The best form of backup is outside of the case. Get an eSATA or USB 3.0 external IMHO. Otherwise, what you have listed is fine, though I would install frequently used applications on the primary SSD.

Also 8gb or 16gb of ram. Have seen conflicting opinions as to how well the OS handles unused ram for caching. But with how cheap it is...

Windows theoretically uses extra RAM as a filesystem cache. In reality, the algorithm isn't that good, and an extra 8GB is still tiny in comparison to the size of the data that it's trying to cache.

Considering: (Case) Antec 300v2 (Cpu cooler) Hyper 212+
I don't care at all about looks or noise, so I haven't looked too hard at these categories. I'm mainly just looking to get good cooling value and maybe some dust filters on the case.
These two seem to be regarded as solid choices, but I'm open to suggestions if you think something would suit me better.

Both are fine choices IMHO.

Should I go with win7 for stable drivers, or use win8 consumer till the real thing comes out?

Windows 7 all the way. Windows 8 is significantly different from 7 and why pay the early adopter tax in terms of incompatible programs if you don't need any of the new features?

Tv Tuner cards are something of a mystery to me however. From what little I know, I would like a dual tuner (so I can watch and record at the same time). However i'm unclear on Brands, formats, storage usage of recorded content, whether to use companies programs or media center. Any enlightenment in this area would be appreciated.

What tuner you need really depends on what source(s) you plan to use.

 

[SingleUseUser]

There is a bit more risk involved with your data if it isn't kept physically separate.

The best form of backup is outside of the case. Get an eSATA or USB 3.0 external IMHO. Otherwise, what you have listed is fine, though I would install frequently used applications on the primary SSD.

My only problem with doing so is that I dont really need that much security. This is less of a "I need to protect my important data" and rather more "I should probably get around to doing that". I've actually lost everything once, and almost twice more, but I have nothing that is incredibly important, its just more of a convenience thing.

As for the SSD, I was planning on doing that, and just putting the stuff I don't care about on the hdd.

Raising the maximum turbo frequency does just that, it raises the maximum turbo frequency. The CPU itself will determine if there is enough load to justify clocking up and enough TDP headroom to maintain that clock. Setting a BCLK forces the CPU to always run at a given speed (C-states notwithstanding). All things being equal, the BCLK overclock will be slightly higher performance because there is a delay between when you ask for full turbo and when you actually get it (few tens of microseconds).

C-states are independent from Turbo, they will operate in either overclocking scenario. However, you will likely find that you need to disable them because they will droop the voltage too low to maintain stability while OCed.

So the delay in turbo activating is the only performance hinderance, and C-states only matter in terms of stability. Good to know, thanks.

IPS and *VA panels are king when it comes to viewing angles. 120Hz displays are nice, but not worth sacrificing viewing angles for, especially not in your usage scenario.

I was rather unsure about this, mainly because I'd heard that viewing angles on TNs had improved, especially on higher end(120hz) ones. But if it is still a significant problem then I guess I'll go with my original thought of IPS.
EDIT: The HP ZR2740w just came to my attention, and now im torn between 2412m, HP ZR2740 and the U2711.

HDMI should be your last resort for connecting a PC to a monitor. DVI and DP are much higher bandwidth and can display a wider range of resolutions (especially important if you get a >1080P display)

Hmmm I'll have to remember to pick up a DP/DVI cable when I get my stuff.

Windows theoretically uses extra RAM as a filesystem cache. In reality, the algorithm isn't that good, and an extra 8GB is still tiny in comparison to the size of the data that it's trying to cache.
Both are fine choices IMHO.

Guess I'll just have to see how liberal I'm feeling with my money when I go to order then.

Windows 7 all the way. Windows 8 is significantly different from 7 and why pay the early adopter tax in terms of incompatible programs if you don't need any of the new features?

Hmmmm, I suppose I can probably just live with 7 and the coming SPs. Although I must admit I'm still rather torn with 8 "available" now. This is especially true if they don't screw it up and it just ends up being Win7.2 (and then metro).
I guess I'll just have to see if my parts manufacturers have drivers out for 8 when I go to order and then flip a coin or something...

What tuner you need really depends on what source(s) you plan to use.

I was planning on just hooking up my cable then hoping to have the ability to watch one thing while recording another. Pretty basic stuff, but I'm still rather lost as to what to get.
EDIT: One of the most important things I would like to know Is approximately how much space recordings take up. Obviously it changes depending on a lot of factors, but a ballpark for an hour of content(perhaps various formats) would be really useful.

 

[mfenn]

EDIT: The HP ZR2740w just came to my attention, and now im torn between 2412m, HP ZR2740 and the U2711.

The ZR2740 and U2711 are in a class above the U2412M, but it's not like the latter is a bad monitor.

I was planning on just hooking up my cable then hoping to have the ability to watch one thing while recording another. Pretty basic stuff, but I'm still rather lost as to what to get.

What kind of cable? Analog, Digital? With a box or without a box?

EDIT: One of the most important things I would like to know Is approximately how much space recordings take up. Obviously it changes depending on a lot of factors, but a ballpark for an hour of content(perhaps various formats) would be really useful.

An hour long HD show will take around 3.5GB in the native transport stream format. If you are interested in keeping your recordings long-term, it is in your interest to transcode to h.264.

 

[SingleUseUser]

The ZR2740 and U2711 are in a class above the U2412M, but it's not like the latter is a bad monitor.

More notably a resolution and several hundred $ above as well. Although the ZR740, with its lower input lag and lower price, is making the jump up a lot more appetizing

What kind of cable? Analog, Digital? With a box or without a box?

Oh sorry. Digital, no box, although perhaps a box in the future.

An hour long HD show will take around 3.5GB in the native transport stream format. If you are interested in keeping your recordings long-term, it is in your interest to transcode to h.264.

Now is that 720 "HD" or 1080 "HD"(silly marketers).

Transcoding to h.264 is to save space right? And could technically be done once I run out of room?

 

[mfenn]

More notably a resolution and several hundred $ above as well. Although the ZR740, with its lower input lag and lower price, is making the jump up a lot more appetizing

Yep, that's it.

Oh sorry. Digital, no box, although perhaps a box in the future.

In that case, any tuner that will do ClearQAM is fine. I like the Hauppauge tuners such as the HVR-1250. If you do want to get encrypted channels (i.e. what you would normally need a box for) on your computer, you need a CableCARD from your cable provider and an expensive Ceton tuner.

Now is that 720 "HD" or 1080 "HD"(silly marketers).

It's for 720p or 1080i (both are about the same in terms of file size) There are no 1080p cable broadcasts to my knowledge.

Transcoding to h.264 is to save space right? And could technically be done once I run out of room?

That's correct. Personally, I don't bother to archive them and just have media center delete old recordings.

 

[SingleUseUser]

In that case, any tuner that will do ClearQAM is fine. I like the Hauppauge tuners such as the HVR-1250. If you do want to get encrypted channels (i.e. what you would normally need a box for) on your computer, you need a CableCARD from your cable provider and an expensive Ceton tuner.

I think I'll stick with the cheaper cards. I probably won't be getting a box anytime soon. Although from what I understand, I still need a dual tuner card to be able to watch and record at the same time right?

It's for 720p or 1080i (both are about the same in terms of file size) There are no 1080p cable broadcasts to my knowledge.

Ya, just wasn't sure if they took up the same space or not.

That's correct. Personally, I don't bother to archive them and just have media center delete old recordings.

I don't suppose they have a "record until full, then trans code" option. I'd certainly guess not. Also any recommendations on what program to use for transcoding?


Well I think that's also about as much help as you can give me for now. At least until It gets closer to build time, and I actually have to get more specific. Thanks for suffering through the text wall, and for all the good info.

 

[mfenn]

I think I'll stick with the cheaper cards. I probably won't be getting a box anytime soon. Although from what I understand, I still need a dual tuner card to be able to watch and record at the same time right?

That's correct, the HVR-2250 is pretty much the same thing but with two tuners.

I don't suppose they have a "record until full, then trans code" option. I'd certainly guess not. Also any recommendations on what program to use for transcoding?

I use Windows Media Center for recording, and it doesn't have any type of transcoding options. I believe MythTV can do transcoding, but I'm not sure if it is fully automatic.

Well I think that's also about as much help as you can give me for now. At least until It gets closer to build time, and I actually have to get more specific. Thanks for suffering through the text wall, and for all the good info.

No prob.