New Build Possible Disaster - Help!

[ArtShapiro]

Yesterday I built a new H67 machine. Using the little Antec 310-150 case, I built a system with an Intel DH67CF motherboard and a 2500K CPU.

I turned it on and to my surprise neither the CPU fan nor the case fan turned on. The BIOS came up on my screen and reported a processor incompatibility, saying that 95 watt (!) CPUs were not supported on ITX motherboards. The heatsink started to get quite warm.

I turned it off and repeated the process with the same result.

Can anyone shed some light here? Could I have inserted the CPU with the wrong orientation? If so, is it resilient enough to handle this user malfeasance or have I trashed either the CPU and/or the MB?

I'm not sure how to proceed, so any advice is more than welcome here.

Art - not the proverbial happy camper

 

[dma0991]

Read here.

It seems that Intel is concerned about heat issues when using 95w processors in mini-ITX cases, so the official specs indicate support for only 65w Core i3 and i5 processors.

Inserting a CPU into the socket is idiot proof and very unlikely to happen. Even if you somehow managed to do so you won't be able to boot up anyways. The best course of action now is to either change your motherboard to a board that does support a SB with 95W TDP or downgrade to a Core i3/i5 with 65W TDP.

 

[ArtShapiro]

The best course of action now is to either change your motherboard to a board that does support a SB with 95W TDP or downgrade to a Core i3/i5 with 65W TDP.

But this is a 65 watt Sandy Bridge processor - the I5-2500K. Am I missing something subtle?

Art

 

[DominionSeraph]

i5 2500k is a 95W processor.

http://ark.intel.com/products/52210

 

[dma0991]

According to Intel the Core i5 2500/2500K is definitely a 95W TDP processor. Only the Core i5 2500S and Core i5 2500T will be 65W and 45W respectively.

 

[ArtShapiro]

According to Intel the Core i5 2500/2500K is definitely a 95W TDP processor. Only the Core i5 2500S and Core i5 2500T will be 65W and 45W respectively.

Thanks, folks. I am utterly aghast right now! With the weeks of pondering the myriad of possibilities for this machine, I obviously missed The Big Picture.

Not to belabor the point, but does this explain the failure of both fans to actuate? I'm not a hardware engineer, but it seems like the case fan should have been out of the equation.

Art

 

[dma0991]

If your case fan is connected to the motherboard fan header then you wouldn't be able to run it continuously. If the CPU shuts down, the PSU will definitely do the same and you're not going to have a spinning case fan without any power whatsoever to the motherboard.

 

[ArtShapiro]

I just had a very interesting online-chat with Intel. The documentation says that the 2500K is, in fact, supported with this board. I'm not sure what BIOS version I have (I'm at the office right now) but he's suggested updating the BIOS and has provided links to the appropriate file. This might actually work out in the end, although I'm quite apprehensive because a just-purchased board from a major retail outlet is likely to be very recent production.

The case fan on the little Antec case is actually a Molex connector. I'll have to throw a voltmeter on the single Molex cable on the case, which only had two of the four leads connected and a non-standard color pattern.

 

[mfenn]

I just had a very interesting online-chat with Intel. The documentation says that the 2500K is, in fact, supported with this board. I'm not sure what BIOS version I have (I'm at the office right now) but he's suggested updating the BIOS and has provided links to the appropriate file. This might actually work out in the end, although I'm quite apprehensive because a just-purchased board from a major retail outlet is likely to be very recent production.

The case fan on the little Antec case is actually a Molex connector. I'll have to throw a voltmeter on the single Molex cable on the case, which only had two of the four leads connected and a non-standard color pattern.

According to the Intel compatibility matrix for your board, 95W CPUs are only supported with later PCB revisions and BIOS versions.

If by "major retail outlet" you mean a brick & mortar store, I would have the opposite inclination about the board's production date. Individual components are likely to languish in the supply chain for quite a long time compared to OEM builders and Internet resellers.

 

[ArtShapiro]

According to the Intel compatibility matrix for your board, 95W CPUs are only supported with later PCB revisions and BIOS versions.

If by "major retail outlet" you mean a brick & mortar store...

I've confirmed from the label on the motherboard that I have the correct PCB revision. Due to some other pressing issues that suddenly popped up, I haven't had the chance to power up the board to get the BIOS level. Probably tomorrow evening, unless I take it to the office and spend a few minutes as time permits. I'd love for this to be the issue, of course.

I bought the board from Superbiiz, an online retailer, not a brick&mortar store. Good people - I've dealt with them several times over the years.

Art

 

[mfenn]

Good to know!

 

[ArtShapiro]

Before I go out to the garage and look for a good sturdy rope...

One of the suggestions from the Intel tech was to reseat the CPU. I removed the fan, carefully removed the processor, and to my rather discouraged horror observed the following:

http://www.ocrebels.com/BentSandyBridgeSocket.jpg

As you can see around 8:00, I have managed to bend two pins. Obviously I don't know if this was during the insertion or the removal. Of course I have no idea if I've ruined the 2500K.

Is there a circuit board tech in the house? What do I do now?

• use the rope - good bye, cruel world?
• hope that the skilled hands of an opthamalogic surgeon I know can bend the pins straight with a small pair of tweezers?
• contact Intel?
• admit defeat and purchase another motherboard?
• ???

As Dr. McCoy might have said: "Damn it, Jim, I'm a software engineer, not a hardware guru."

Art

 

[Kenmitch]

As you can see around 8:00, I have managed to bend two pins

If it makes you feel better that does look like it's repairable. Doesn't look like it would take much effort to bend them back. Although they are pretty tiny so you should proceed with caution. The one pin looks like it's twisted the second is barely messed with at all it looks like. I'm not even sure you did it as it almost looks like it's possibly a manufacturing defect. As far as further damage ??? Maybe a guru will come in and tell you what those two pins do.

 

[dma0991]

Use the rope. It's not a real big deal actually. Just get a regular sowing needle and carefully push the pin back to its original position and parallel with the other pins.

 

[mfenn]

Use the rope. It's not a real big deal actually. Just get a regular sowing needle and carefully push the pin back to its original position and parallel with the other pins.

Sewing needle perhaps? But yeah, it is not terribly difficult to bend the pins back to the proper position. A magnifying glass and steady hand helps.

Think about it this way: the board is already unusuable in its current state, so you can't very well make it worse!

 

[ArtShapiro]

Sewing needle perhaps? But yeah, it is not terribly difficult to bend the pins back to the proper position.

I disassembled the machine today and removed the motherboard. Even under a big industrial magnifying lamp, I'm not confident about tackling this one - I can't really see the carnage well enough to deal with it. (Blasted aging eyes!)

Last month I built a similar H61 system for a friend, and she called to offer sympathy for this debacle while being thankful that hers went together with no difficulties. She came up with a suggestion that would have never occurred to me: take it to a jeweler. I think it's brilliant, as those folks deal with tiny pieces of metal under high magnification routinely, such as in building or repairing those tiny chain links that hold lockets, etc. What do folks think of that idea?

 

[Zaap]

Over the years I've been building PCs, I've bent more CPU pins than I care to remember. The best tool yet devised for righting a bent CPU pin is a 0.7mm mechanical pencil, no lead in the barrel. It's never failed me, I've always managed to get things working again. The pencil barrel will fit right over the bent pin- and with just a simple tweak- it's straight again.

According to this article, your motherboard should work fine with a 95w i5, even an i7. The author seems to have found the same issue, but doesn't go into any detail about what -if anything- he had to do to use use his 95w i5.

I like Intel boards, but I find sometimes they go overboard erring on the side of caution with their hardware. I ran into the same problem back when 45nm Core 2 Duo processors first came along and some Intel boards "would-but-wouldn't" run them.

 

[dma0991]

Sewing needle perhaps?

My spelling checker is broken.

What do folks think of that idea?

If you're not confident about fixing it then it is best to have someone who is somewhat confident. The question is how much would it cost?

 

[sangyup81]

i actually use a knife and go both horizontal and vertical to make sure the pins are lined up

yeah, it seems like that bios update will have you going!

 

[Red Dawn]

I disassembled the machine today and removed the motherboard. Even under a big industrial magnifying lamp, I'm not confident about tackling this one - I can't really see the carnage well enough to deal with it. (Blasted aging eyes!)

Last month I built a similar H61 system for a friend, and she called to offer sympathy for this debacle while being thankful that hers went together with no difficulties. She came up with a suggestion that would have never occurred to me: take it to a jeweler. I think it's brilliant, as those folks deal with tiny pieces of metal under high magnification routinely, such as in building or repairing those tiny chain links that hold lockets, etc. What do folks think of that idea?

Actually that's not a bad idea.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

or you can just get some glasses...

 

[mfenn]

Actually that's not a bad idea.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[ArtShapiro]

I took it to the jeweler, and they looked at it under a loupe. Fortunately the one pin was merely "displaced", not crunched. Unfortunately, they refused to deal with it. I took it back to my office, and asked our lead hardware engineer what he'd suggest. He referred me to probably the youngest guy in the building, hired as a coop and apparently just made a full-time employee. He's about 40 years younger than I!

He was clearly able to see the damage, so I pulled out a sewing needle from a little kit I keep in the office, and the little magnifying lens of my Swiss Army knife. He happily worked on it for about 10 minutes, and I could see that the visible glint of the flawed area was almost gone. He said there was a tiny twist to the pin, but that it was quite upright and would certainly work.

We went down to the lab and found a loupe, difficult to use because the depth of field is about three microns, but it seemed to confirm the fix.

I'm putting it together now, ready to see if it boots up, whereupon I can check the BIOS level.

Art

 

[Davidh373]

I took it to the jeweler, and they looked at it under a loupe. Fortunately the one pin was merely "displaced", not crunched. Unfortunately, they refused to deal with it. I took it back to my office, and asked our lead hardware engineer what he'd suggest. He referred me to probably the youngest guy in the building, hired as a coop and apparently just made a full-time employee. He's about 40 years younger than I!

He was clearly able to see the damage, so I pulled out a sewing needle from a little kit I keep in the office, and the little magnifying lens of my Swiss Army knife. He happily worked on it for about 10 minutes, and I could see that the visible glint of the flawed area was almost gone. He said there was a tiny twist to the pin, but that it was quite upright and would certainly work.

We went down to the lab and found a loupe, difficult to use because the depth of field is about three microns, but it seemed to confirm the fix.

I'm putting it together now, ready to see if it boots up, whereupon I can check the BIOS level.

Art

Geez, you've really been to hell and back with this build! Hopefully it does indeed work.

 

[ArtShapiro]

Geez, you've really been to hell and back with this build! Hopefully it does indeed work.

Maybe I'm just incompetent - I appreciate everyone not being totally bored with this thread.

I just came up with only a DVD drive attached. It wouldn't even get to the BIOS without having some potentially-bootable media attached, which surprised me quite negatively. No indication of the previous processor complaint, and the fans are spinning unlike before. I"m starting to wonder if the socket had the bad pins out of the box. But I honestly don't remember whether the complaint came before or totally after POST.

Next step is to attach the empty SSD and actually come up. If it gives the previous processor warning, I at least have written down my BIOS level and can compare to the requirements saved from the online chat with Intel.

EDIT: Windows 7 is installing without incident. I think we're golden.

Art