new build pic/ 3d render comp

PcCustomer

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2012
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Hi guys


I need your advices for my future render rig . The softwares will be used : Adobe CS6, 3Dmax, Maya, zBrush,vRay ... . The budget is about 2000$ . Here're the parts my friend suggested


CPU Intel® Core™ i7 - 3930K __641 $
SSD OCZ Agility 3 120GB SATA3 __103 $
ASUS SARBERTOOTH X79__ 324 $
RAM Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 Bus 1600Mhz __55$
HDD Western Caviar Black 1TB __116.5 $
Dell 24"U2412M Ultrasharp __ 265 $
VGA ASUS ENGTX560 Ti__ 278 $
Seasonic S12II 620 Bronze - 620W __ 79$
Case Cougar Evolution __ 94$
I have a few questions :


_What is the trade off if I go for ASROCK X79 Extreme4 (266$) or GIGABYTE™ GA X79-UD3 (287$) instead of the Sabertooth (324$) ?


_Is the OCZ Agility 3 reliable ? Should I grab an Intel one ?


_X79 supports quad channel . So I should go for 4x2GB kit or stay dual ?


Any ideas will be appreciated ; thank you :)
 

fread2281

Member
Sep 27, 2012
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Hi guys I need your advices for my future render rig . The softwares will be used : Adobe CS6, 3Dmax, Maya, zBrush,vRay ... . The budget is about 2000$ . Here're the parts my friend suggested

I have a few questions :

_What is the trade off if I go for ASROCK X79 Extreme4 (266$) or GIGABYTE™ GA X79-UD3 (287$) instead of the Sabertooth (324$) ?
RAM slots and a few minor things.

_Is the OCZ Agility 3 reliable ?)
It's good enough.
Should I grab an Intel one ?)
Intel is WAY more reliable, it's up to you.
_X79 supports quad channel . So I should go for 4x2GB kit or stay dual ?)
I would get 4x4GB for rendering.

Any ideas will be appreciated ; thank you :)
Do this, all of it
 

fread2281

Member
Sep 27, 2012
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Slightly modified config for $1700:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3930K 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($569.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock X79 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011 Motherboard ($209.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Kingston HyperX 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($74.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($95.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Storage: OCZ Agility 3 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($79.98 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 560 Ti 1GB Video Card ($184.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cougar Evolution ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Dell U2412M 60Hz 24.0" Monitor ($297.25 @ Amazon)
Total: $1683.15

I would get a better GPU.
 

PcCustomer

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2012
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Thank you ; fread2281

1700 dollars and you're going to recommend a sand force based SSD? nice.


You mean I should go for a Marvell controller ; right ?


fread2281 already mentioned about quality of Intel SSD ; so I think I will take one ; maybe the 330 :)
 

dmoney1980

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2008
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I would recommend a Samsung 830 / 840 SSD instead. Sandforce SSD's degrade in performance as you fill the drive, plus they don't do very well with incompressable data....

What I would do is buy a 256GB SSD and split it into 2 partitions- one for the OS and apps, the other as a cache drive for some of the software you use.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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What is the trade off if I go for ASROCK X79 Extreme4 (266$) or GIGABYTE™ GA X79-UD3 (287$) instead of the Sabertooth (324$) ?
The ASRock has a chipset cooling fan. Other than that, it looks like a really nice board.

Is the OCZ Agility 3 reliable ? Should I grab an Intel one ?
Samsung and Crucial are priced right, and good drives. Intel SFs wouldn't be bad, but SF drives still have some gotchas, including wrt performance over time.

X79 supports quad channel . So I should go for 4x2GB kit or stay dual ?
Neither. If you're doing rendering, go ahead and get 4x4GB. 4 4GB sticks, or a 4x4GB kit, either way is fine. I'd get Crucial non-Ballistix, for such a PC, myself.

Then:

1. Is there any reason you chose that particular case?

2. What is the video card mainly going to be used for?
 

PcCustomer

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2012
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Is this a dedicated render box, or is it going to moonlight as a desktop/workstation?


A desktop/workstation :)


Then:

1. Is there any reason you chose that particular case?

2. What is the video card mainly going to be used for?


That's a suggestion of my friend ; I'm new with this so I don't know much about a VFX/render rig.

I want a GPU for OpenCL or CUDA ; if the softwares supported .

Thank you ; dmoney1980 and lehtv for your SSD suggestions . So the best choice will be a Samsung ; and then Intel ; right ? I think will grab the 830.




And I have more questions : Is that true a render rig heavily uses the CPU ; not the GPU ?


A friend of mine told me X79 is overkill since I leave everything by default . He suggested me build a Xeon based system ; the CPU will be the E3-1230 V2 . Of course I welcome the idea about keep the costs down ; but will it hurt the performance much ?
 
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lehtv

Elite Member
Dec 8, 2010
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ank you ; dmoney1980 and lehtv for your SSD suggestions . So the best choice will be a Samsung ; and then Intel ; right ? I think will grab the 830.

Yes. I would put Crucial M4 on par with Intel. But Samsung is the top choice
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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And I have more questions : Is that true a render rig heavily uses the CPU ; not the GPU ?
Yes, but that's the case for a high quality render, usually. Some applications have begun to use CUDA, HLSL/GLSL, or OpenCL to help out, allowing the video card to flex its muscles, but that's only in the beginning stages with entrenched commercial applications. Until CUDA, and then DirectX 10.1 (GLSL, AKA GLSLang, is a re-implementation of DirectCompute for OpenGL, basically), 3D rendering in hardware was generally a non-deterministic affair. On CPUs, one can control accuracy within a known range of bits, since it can be told how to do what it should be doing. Regular 3D APIs, like we use for gaming, won't do that, and historical professional OpenGL won't, either. So, the CPUs get/got used for the job.

However, for using the PC as an interactive workstation, the GPU is also important. The 3D rendering done while you do editing is done in large part by your GPU.

A friend of mine told me X79 is overkill since I leave everything by default . He suggested me build a Xeon based system ; the CPU will be the E3-1230 V2 . Of course I welcome the idea about keep the costs down ; but will it hurt the performance much ?
It may be. Used as an interactive workstation, the benefits of the added bandwidth and cores will be minimal. Assuming "Adobe CS 6" refers to the common Photoshop and Premier bundle, they can definitely make use of more cores, but whether it's worth the added cost to use a high-end platform like LGA2011, is not an unimportant thing to consider. Your 3D programs will barely be able to use more than 1 core, while you're sitting down and editing anything.

If I have some spare time in a bit, I'll see how a C-series chipset build comes out, budget-wise.
 

lehtv

Elite Member
Dec 8, 2010
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Personally I would not buy LGA2011 unless the rate of rendering / encoding directly influenced my income
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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OK, now this is not going to be a short post. I want to cover all the bases I can. I am going under the assumption that this will be, to some degree, a money-making computer. Also, I'm sure you'll be able to use >8GB some time in the service life of the system, between Adobe and Autodesk software and addons. Towards that end, I came up with 3 builds that I think are quite viable:
  • A high-end desktop/gaming build, like in the OP, but not as costly
  • A budget workstation build, with ECC RAM
  • An overclockable normal desktop build, based on mfenn's current recommendations

This here is basically the build from the OP, optimized a bit (not the cheapest stuff, but no $300+ mobo, either).
Total: $891.96

Here is a proper budget workstation selection for the computer's guts, based on LGA1155. Get overclocking out of your head right now. Why would you choose this? If you're making money with the computer, how much might a few wrong bits flipped, that are never detected while you edit, but change a final result in a way that loses you hours, or days, of work, cost you? Now, with a $2000, full-on registered ECC is just silly, despite a little added protection. With a $3500+ budget, I'd say to go for it (and try specifying a vendor box, before DIY), but the cost of Sho Nuff Server Hardware(tm) starts going into the stratosphere. $2000 including monitor offers some breathing room for DIY, but is pretty tight for configuring big vendor workstations.

Unregistered ECC DDR3 will be able to detect, and correct, most data errors. Ideally, you'll never even have one, but parts can go bad, parts can be marginal, analog compatibility can sometimes leave a bit to be desired, sometimes board layouts won't be perfect, surges can take out capacitors when you're not looking, and so on. It's a cost v. peace of mind trade off. The more you value lost work time, the more you should value having ECC (and verifiable backups, but that should be mandatory with or without ECC).

Note: the RAM selected is qualified by Kingston for that board. Most of Asus' list is already discontinued parts. They're available, but cost as much as when they were new.

Total: $648.95

Here is a beefed up gaming parts set, with overclocking capability. mfenn's current choices for those parts, the i5-3570K and ASRock Z77 Pro3, and 2x4GB GEIL RAM, based on a gaming rig, come to $377.96 (just figured I'd add it for reference).

Now, I'm not so sure about all your programs*, but if, "Adobe CS6," refers to the common Photoshop and Premier bundle, you will definitely benefit from Hyperthreading, so an i7 would be reasonable. Also, most batch rendering software will, at worst, gain nothing from HT. With the i7-3770K as the CPU, and double the RAM, the total there comes to $480.96 (note that this is using the combo -$25 for the ASRock Z77 Pro3).

You can also use a Xeon E3-1240 with the ASRock Pro3, but with the i7's combo savings and slightly faster speed, I don't think it would be worth bothering with.

So:
  • Normal desktop guts: $481
  • Budget workstation guts: $168 more than normal desktop
  • High-end desktop guts: $411 more than normal desktop, and $243 more than budget workstation

I don't really have time to go into the rest of the computer's parts, right now; but they would be identical regardless of the above choices.

The above are all more cost-effective options than in the first post. Embarrassingly parallel CPU workloads could be up to 35-40% faster on a 6-core LGA2011 i7, compared to LGA1155. "Could be," and, "up to," being rather key phrases. It would be hard to know if that would make enough of a difference, without more knowledge of your workflow, and what affects the interactive performance of VRay. For all we know, a high-end Geforce or mid-range Quadro might do the job far better...I just can't seem to find that kind of information.

My personal leaning, as a money-making workstation, would be to use the budget workstation for mobo/CPU/RAM, and then put the money towards something really useful, like input devices and a backup system. As an educational PC, I'd save the money and go w/o the ECC RAM. A good Razer, Logitech, or now even Cooler Master, mouse, the good old Kensington Expert Mouse, or a CST laser trackball; a good mechanical keyboard; maybe a N52 or G13; or even some other really weird input devices, and a comfy chair, could, in day to day use, make far more of a productivity difference than more CPU cores.

Oh, and you'll really want to be backing your system up. There are plenty of options for doing this, but I'm about to have to go do real world stuff, off the internet, so I won't even bother going into it right now, except to say you're going to need it. No ifs, no ands, no buts, and no adding it later. If you thought hard drives dying were the only way data went bad, you need to learn that's not the case now, before you get stuck with permanently lost data and/or days of lost work, learning it the hard way. There's silent memory corruption (ECC can help), on-disk corruption of various kinds, drivers causing data corruption, bad shutdowns causing scrambled data, as the disk's voltage drops while it tries to write, and more.

* For VRay, specifically, I can't find a straight answer about CPU v. GPU, and HT on v. off.
 
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mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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www.mfenn.com
Wow, great post Cerb. One small correction is that the mobo that I am recommending is the Z77 Pro3, not the Z77 Extreme3 (no such part exists to my knowledge).
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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Wow, great post Cerb. One small correction is that the mobo that I am recommending is the Z77 Pro3, not the Z77 Extreme3 (no such part exists to my knowledge).
A mental slip, from having just compared the ASRock X79 Extreme3/4 boards with other LGA2011 boards, at the time. Fixed. I really wish they hadn't used a fan. I've just had too many bad experiences, a couple years into a PC's life, with chipset fans.

Now on to more parts! This is the rest of the internal components.

PSU: Seasonic 620W - $80
Probably overkill, but not too costly, it's a quality PSU, and maybe you'll add a power-hungry video card one of these days.

Video card: MSI 560 Ti 448-core - $220 - $20 MIR ($200 net)
Assuming you want to save a buck, but want CUDA options, that should be a nice value. It might even be too much, but the cost over a 384-core 560 is so little, it's hard to pass up, as long as you actually fill out the rebate and send it in. It's a good card for the money without the rebate, but the rebate is what makes it really worth buying over a 384-core 560, like lehtv picked.

HDD: WD Black 1TB - $111
Anybody know how the $70 Hitachi performs? At $40 less, it might be really nice, but I can't find a sufficiently useful review, and haven't used it myself.

ODD: Samsung 24X DVD burner - $18

SSD: Samsung 830 128GB - $90
or
Samsung 830 256GB - $200
Budget permitting, the 256GB would offer far more room. Also, keep a look out for sales. The Samsung 830 and Crucial M4 256GB have both been down to $160 just within the last few days. Either one would be excellent. At the same price, the Samsung has a slight performance advantage. Plextor's M5 would also be a good option.

Figure your OS will need 20GB or so, then the hibernate file will need 16GB (but, you can disable that, if you don't use it), and the page file will need anywhere from several GBs on up to however much Windows thinks it might need one day. Adobe's software I know has a pretty big footprint, as well, though I'm not as sure of the others. 128GB would work, but it can fill right on up.

So, going from the prior post, that works out to around:
  • 256GB: $636 ($616 AMIR)
    • Desktop 1155: $1117 ($1097 AMIR)
    • Workstation 1155: $1285 ($1265 AMIR)
    • Desktop LGA2011: $1528 ($1508 AMIR)
  • 128GB: $526 ($506 AMIR)
    • Desktop 1155: $1007 ($987 AMIR)
    • Workstation 1155: $1175 ($1155 AMIR)
    • Desktop LGA2011: $1418 ($1398 AMIR)

Case:
Fractal Design R4 Titanium (or black) - $120 (non-windowed one is OOS)
It will be moderately quiet, with no added fuss, has room for cabling to be tucked away, and is all around a really nice case.

The Couger Evolution doesn't look bad, though, at $100.

You can change products slightly, find combos and other deals, or just watch daily price changes, so why keep it down to the dollar, now that the box is more or less figured out? Or, well, boxes, since our OP hasn't come back. I'm using a plain $100 for the case, $280 for the monitor, and rounding up to the next $10.
  • 256GB:
    • Desktop 1155: $1500 ($1480 AMIR)
    • Workstation 1155: $1670 ($1650 AMIR)
    • Desktop LGA2011: $1910 ($1890 AMIR)
  • 128GB:
    • Desktop 1155: $1390 ($1370 AMIR)
    • Workstation 1155: $1560 ($1540 AMIR)
    • Desktop LGA2011: $1800 ($1780 AMIR)

CPU cooling:
The included heatsink for the CPU will work just fine. If its noise might be a problem, the Scythe Mugen ($50) or Cooler Master Hyper212+ ($30-$10 MIR) are easy recommendations. The Scythe can be much quieter, but is more expensive, and freaking huge. This is entirely optional.

Now, see how close to the edge of the budget LGA2011 is getting? $90 or $200 left, and you still really need, at the least (do we count OS against the budget, FI?), a big enough external drive and good backup software (Macrium Reflect?). Not merely that, but as someone who would prefer not to go back to a job of sitting in front of a computer all day, your input devices, desk, and chair can and will make a huge difference--in the long run, far more than 20-40% more CPU performance for big renders.

Go into any place where the people have been at it for awhile, with any serious content creation. Everyone will have their preferred mouse or trackball, maybe keyboard, and you might even see some 3D mice, Logitech G13s, or Razer (or Belkin) N52s around (and, if they're CAD folks, the obligatory HP 11C :D). That is not the case for no reason. Even those who manage to not get RSI problems will have improved handling time with an intuitively "correct" input device, and improved speed and precision while using it. That may only save a second at a time, but when that savings is repeated thousands of times each day, it adds up. Peripherals with better ergonomics will also leave you less stressed, simply because you will be able to physically leave your arms and shoulders more relaxed than otherwise.

You can fit a good LGA2011 6-core build in $2000, if barely. But, if some of that could instead go towards the human aspect of it, both in terms of interface efficiency and your long-term wrist dexterity and strength, you shouldn't think twice about losing a little batch job performance to start working on that--the station part of your workstation. Or, you could throw in a 2nd monitor, for the time being.

P.S. Feel free to put together a cart and check my record-keeping and arithmetic against it. It's enough to keep track of that I'm not 100% confident in all my results.
 
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PcCustomer

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2012
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You're very kind ; Cerb . If we meet I'll buy you a beer :biggrin:


Yeah ; this going to be a money-making computer . I ain't intend to upgrade it so I really want to futureproof with X79 platform . Plus the peripherals ; maybe it's out of my budget ; but I think I can handle this . If not we have plan B ; you know :D


Thank everyone ; especially Cerb . God bless you .


So far I'm out of question . If I have a trouble hope you guys can help me again :)
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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Well, I haven't had to work with modeling and photoshop type users, but have had to both do initial building, and support over time, for civil engineers, draftsmen, and architects on a budget. With a high enough budget, a good prebuilt workstation is a no-brainer, but today I'd call that budget $3000+ with no monitor.
 

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
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www.mfenn.com
Yeah ; this going to be a money-making computer . I ain't intend to upgrade it so I really want to futureproof with X79 platform . Plus the peripherals ; maybe it's out of my budget ; but I think I can handle this . If not we have plan B ; you know :D

There's a wise man around here (Ken g6) who has a quote that goes something like this:

The only way to future proof a PC is to save money to spend on future components.

Don't look at X79 as a way to "futureproof" yourself, because its not. If you need one of its specific features, then get it. Otherwise, get the Z77 platform and save money for the next big thing.

HDD: WD Black 1TB - $111
Anybody know how the $70 Hitachi performs? At $40 less, it might be really nice, but I can't find a sufficiently useful review, and haven't used it myself.

That's an older Black that you have listed. It's not even a FAEX, so who knows what size platters are in there. I would say no larger than 500GB though.

The 7K1000.C uses 500GB platters, so its at least as fast as the Black and the 7K1000.D uses a 1TB platter, so it's much faster.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
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There's a wise man around here (Ken g6) who has a quote that goes something like this:

The only way to future proof a PC is to save money to spend on future components.
+1

Hardware moves too fast to try to keep a socket upgrade path. It can happen, but like SLI/Xfire as an upgrade path, it takes luck on your side, much more than good planning. Z77 (desktop) and C202 (low-end server/workstation) offer good bang/buck right now, and the performance potentially lost in batch jobs is fairly small. While batch rendering can use more and more threads, the speed of the CPU with 1-2 active threads is what will define the vast majority of its meaningful performance characteristics--the wait times you experience while manipulating data in various GUIs.

That's an older Black that you have listed.
It was the only Black 1TB they had in stock, at the time. Not knowing enough about the Hitachi, I wanted to stick to known quantities for pricing things out.