New Analysis of Peer Reviewed Climate Change Articles Reinforces Disbelief in Man

[Paul98]

I suggest you continue to look at that research...

 

[Fern]

I don't care if you were around back then, cold weather where you live is not global cooling. I will say it again there was very little science backing up global cooling in the 70's the vast majority was on global warming. So yes it was a myth.

I don't care if you care or not.

And you seem to be misunderstanding me. I'm not saying global cooling was real, I'm saying science DID claim there was global cooling. The revision part is people now saying, "no, science never said that etc", in an attempt to rebut people who have pointed if science got it wrong back then maybe they're getting it wrong now too.

Fern

 

[glenn1]

The argument I'm increasingly seeing is that people who formerly denied climate change was real are falling back on the "we didn't do it / nothing can be done" argument. At least that is a position available for contention.

Much more study is required to hash out how much we may be responsible for and what actions should be undertaken to minimize that influence. However what should not be up for debate is coming up with solutions to deal with the immediate symptoms (sea rise and drought being the most in our face at the moment).

Sure something can be done, the questions are about cost (and opportunity costs) versus their effectiveness, whether against another alternative or doing nothing at all. And to me at least, it's almost immediately apparent that:

a. Almost every mitigation option proposed that would provide any significant impact will not pass cost/benefit scrutiny

b. Any means that would have significant impact would never be adopted by a government.

c. A person's views on climate change seem to track 100% with whether they like or dislike SUVs.

 

[Paul98]

I don't care if you care or not.

And you seem to be misunderstanding me. I'm not saying global cooling was real, I'm saying science DID claim there was global cooling. The revision part is people now saying, "no, science never said that etc", in an attempt to rebut people who have pointed if science got it wrong back then maybe they're getting it wrong now too.

Fern

I never said that no science said it, how about you read what I actually said. I said that the vast majority of science was about global warming and NOT global cooling. This is a fact, you can go check it out if you want. In my first post I even mentioned that as the years go by it's become even more overwhelming towards global warming. Which wouldn't make any sense if I had said "no, science never said that." This is how science works, as we get more and better data our results get more secure.

If you can say that in the 70's scientists told us that there was going to be global cooling. You can just as well say that same thing today. Because you can always find someone who will support you no matter how off or bad your idea is.

Edit: But generally when you say something like this scientists say this you should be referring to the vast majority and not a small minority.

 

[Screech]

Sure something can be done, the questions are about cost (and opportunity costs) versus their effectiveness, whether against another alternative or doing nothing at all. And to me at least, it's almost immediately apparent that:

a. Almost every mitigation option proposed that would provide any significant impact will not pass cost/benefit scrutiny

b. Any means that would have significant impact would never be adopted by a government.

c. A person's views on climate change seem to track 100% with whether they like or dislike SUVs.

Mostly agree on a and b, LOL on c.
Only mostly because any competent government that cares for economic growth will not adopt said means. ie, China will do whatever the hell it wants regardless of what other countries do, which makes lowering our own emissions by 10% to try to stop global warming while china grows by 50% about as useful as pissing into the wind.

That's not to say that lowering emissions of greenhouse gases is a bad goal -- its always good to do (and natural gas is in fact doing that right now) -- just that nobody sane wants to shoot their own economy. Outside of some people in california, etc. But there are always a few loons out there

 

[Darwin333]

Oh I'm sure it was easy for you. Very very easy.

Of course even if we take your "nonbiased" website at face value. That still means 93% of peer reviewed articles show climate change happening.

Looks like an "A" grade to me!

NOW SPIN FOR ME DENIER!

Actually, that would be a B+ by most grading scales (at least the one used when I was in school). Sorry, had to nitpick.

 

[Darwin333]

Along those lines, my questions are: why is it getting warmer (ie, what portion - if any - of the warming is man made, what portion is not), how much (how quickly) is the warming happening (every model used thusfar has failed miserably), and what - if anything - can be done about it.

That is the big one for me and I have yet to hear an even remotely plausible plan or even an outline for a remotely plausible plan. This is a global problem and if the richest nation on the planet can not possibly afford the solutions presented thus far (which we are not even close to being sure will work anyway) then we are very far from a global solution.

 

[Darwin333]

Lately I've become more interested in the sun's solar flare cycle and it's impact on climate.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cycle

In browsing technical sites on the Mayan calendar (not doomsday stuff, but astronomy) it seems as our solar system orbits around our galaxy it changes position relative to neighboring celestial bodies. Some professors authoring these papers/sites have posited that our rotational position affects solar activity. I.e., we have cyclical periods (beyond the standard 11 yr cycle) of increased and decreased solar activity and it will affect climate.

Fern

Oooh, please do share. You can pm me the sites if you wish.

 

[Poptech]

And here's the full synopsis of another randomly-chosen, supposedly anti-MMCC article:

Strawman, as the list does not claim all the papers are "anti ACC/AGW". The list is explicitly titled:

"1100+ Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skeptic Arguments Against ACC/AGW Alarm"

Which is defined in the preface,

ACC/AGW Alarm: (defined), "concern relating to a perceived negative environmental or socio-economic effect of ACC/AGW, usually exaggerated as catastrophic."

Thus papers can appear on the list that support skeptic arguments against ACC/AGW and the alleged consequences such as Hurricanes or Tornadoes getting worse. Papers that support arguments against the later might not discuss global warming at all. This is why categories appear on the list. Your cherry picking exercise of skipping over hundreds of papers to the Antarctica section is a strawman argument.

Conveniently you left out the titles of the papers you quoted,

"Aeromagnetic evidence for a volcanic caldera(?) Complex beneath the divide of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet"

"A recent volcanic eruption beneath the West Antarctic ice sheet"

No claim is made that these papers are "anti-AGW". Rather they support skeptic arguments for natural causes of any melting of the west antarctic ice sheet.

The last paper you quoted is titled:

"Polar temperature sensitivity to lunar forcing?"

This paper is proposing a new natural forcing of the polar climate that has nothing to do with AGW. Next time please read more carefully.

 

[Poptech]

You still haven't debunked crap. Note the key words in the OP's linked article: "...published in professional journals..."

A web site with links to articles that have never been published isn't debunking crap. Why weren't they published in accepted professional journals? Maybe they were rejected by said journals during initial peer review? Maybe they were never submitted for peer review in the first place?

You seem very confused as all the papers on the list were published in over 300 peer-reviewed journals. The Journal Citation List is provided,

Journal Citation List:

AAPG Bulletin
Academic Questions
Advances in Atmospheric Sciences
Advances in Geosciences
Advances in Global Change Research
Advances in Meteorology
Advances in Space Research
Agricultural and Forest Meteorology
Agricultural Meteorology
Agricultural Water Management
Agriculture, Ecosystems & Environment
Agronomy Journal
Ambio
American Journal of Botany
American Journal of Human Biology
Annales Geophysicae
Annals of Applied Statistics
Annals of Glaciology
Annual Review of Energy and the Environment
Annual Review of Fluid Mechanics
Antiquity
Applied Energy
Applied Physics Research
Aquatic Botany
Arabian Journal of Geosciences
Arctic and Alpine Research
Area
Asia-Pacific Journal of Atmospheric Sciences
Asia Pacific Journal of Environmental Law
Astronautics and Aeronautics
Astronomical Notes
Astronomy & Astrophysics
Astronomy & Geophysics
Astrophysics and Space Science
Astrophysics and Space Science Library
Astrophysics and Space Sciences Transactions
Atmosfera
Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics
Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics Discussions
Atmospheric Environment
Atmospheric Science Letters
Australian Journal of Emergency Management
Bioscience
Boreas
Boundary-Layer Meteorology
British Medical Journal (BMJ)
Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society (BAMS)
Bulletin of the Russian Academy of Sciences: Physics
Bulletin of Canadian Petroleum Geology
Canadian Journal of Agricultural Economics
Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences
Canadian Journal of Forest Research
Central European Journal of Physics
Chemical Engineering Progress
Chemical Innovation
Chinese Science Bulletin
Climate Dynamics
Climate of the Past
Climate Research
Climatic Change
Climatological Bulletin
Cold Regions Science and Technology
Comptes Rendus Geosciences
Contemporary South Asia
Coral Reefs
Current Biology
Current Opinion in Biotechnology
Diversity and Distributions
Doklady Earth Sciences
Earth and Planetary Science Letters
Ecological Complexity
Ecological Economics
Ecological Modelling
Ecological Monographs
Ecology
Ecology and Evolution
Ecology of Freshwater Fish
Economic Affairs
Economic Analysis and Policy
Economics Bulletin
Emerging Infectious Diseases
Energy
Energy & Environment
Energy & Fuels
Energy and Buildings
Energy Economics
Energy Policy
Energy Sources
Environment International
Environmental and Experimental Botany
Environmental Conservation
Environmental Geology
Environmental Geosciences
Environmental Health Perspectives
Environmental Law and Management
Environmental Politics
Environmental Research
Environmental Research Letters
Environmental Science & Policy
Environmental Science and Pollution Research
Environmental Software
Environmetrics
Eos, Transactions American Geophysical Union
Estuarine, Coastal and Shelf Science
Fresenius' Journal of Analytical Chemistry
Future Virology
Futures
Geoforum
Geografiska Annaler: Series A, Physical Geography
Geografiska Annaler: Series B, Human Geography
Geographica Pannonica
GeoJournal
Geology
Geomagnetism and Aeronomy
Geophysical Journal International
Geophysical Research Letters
Geoscience Canada
Global and Planetary Change
Global Biogeochemical Cycles
Global Change Biology
Global Environmental Change
GSA Today
Historical Studies in the Natural Sciences
Human Ecology
Hydrological Sciences Journal
Il Nuovo Cimento C
Interfaces
International Journal of Biometeorology
International Journal of Climatology
International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health
International Journal of Environmental Science and Engineering
International Journal of Environmental Studies
International Journal of Forecasting
International Journal of Geosciences
International Journal of Global Energy Issues
International Journal of Global Warming
International Journal of Medical Microbiology Supplements
International Journal of Modern Physics A
International Journal of Modern Physics B
International Journal of Modern Physics C
International Journal of Remote Sensing
International Social Science Journal
Internationales Asienforum
Irish Astronomical Journal
Iron & Steel Technology
Irrigation and Drainage
Journal of Aerosol Science
Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
Journal of Anthropological Archaeology
Journal of Atmospheric and Oceanic Technology
Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics
Journal of Atmospheric and Terrestrial Physics
Journal of Biogeography
Journal of Business Ethics
Journal of Chemical Education
Journal of Climate
Journal of Coastal Research
Journal of Cosmology
Journal of Economic and Social Measurement
Journal of Electromagnetic Analysis and Applications
Journal of Environmental Management
Journal of Environmental Sciences
Journal of Environmental Quality
Journal of Experimental Botany
Journal of Forestry
Journal of Geographic Information System
Journal of Geophysical Research
Journal of Hydrology
Journal of Hydrometeorology
Journal of Information Ethics
Journal of Integrative Plant Biology
Journal of Interdisciplinary Cycle Research
Journal of International Studies
Journal of Lake Sciences
Journal of Marine Science
Journal of Natural Gas Science and Engineering
Journal of Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics
Journal of Paleolimnology
Journal of Physics G: Nuclear and Particle Physics
Journal of Physics Malaysia
Journal of Plant Physiology
Journal of Scientific Exploration
Journal of the American Water Resources Association
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences
Journal of the Italian Astronomical Society
Journal of the South African Institution of Civil Engineering
Journal of Vegetation Science
La Chimica e l'Industria
Landscape and Urban Planning
Latvian Journal of Physics and Technical Sciences
Leadership and Management in Engineering
Libertarian Papers
Libyan Journal Medicine
Malaria Journal
Marine Biology
Marine Environmental Research
Marine Geology
Marine Pollution Bulletin
Mathematical Geology
Meteorology and Atmospheric Physics
Meteorologische Zeitschrift
Missouri Medicine
Mitigation and Adaptation Strategies for Global Change
Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society
Monthly Weather Review
Moscow University Physics Bulletin
Natural Hazards
Natural Hazards and Earth System Sciences
Natural Hazards Review
Natural Science
Nature
Nature Geoscience
Netherlands Journal of Geosciences
New Astronomy
New Concepts In Global Tectonics
New Literary History
New Phytologist
New Zealand Geographer
New Zealand Journal of Marine and Freshwater Research
Nordic Hydrology
Norwegian Polar Institute Letters
Oceanologica Acta
Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology
Paleoceanography
Paleontological Journal
Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A
Physical Geography
Physical Review E
Physical Review Letters
Physics and Chemistry of the Earth
Physics Letters A
Physics Reports
Physics Today
Planetary and Space Science
Plant and Soil
Plant, Cell & Environment
Plant Ecology
Plant Physiology
PLoS Biology
Population and Development Review
Proceedings of the Estonian Academy of Sciences: Engineering
Proceedings of the ICE - Civil Engineering
Proceedings of the Indian National Science Academy A
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS)
Proceedings of the Royal Society A
Proceedings of the Royal Society B
Progress in Natural Science
Progress in Oceanography
Progress in Physical Geography
Public Administration Review
Pure and Applied Geophysics
Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics
Quarterly Journal of the Hungarian Meteorological Service
Quaternary International
Quaternary Research
Quaternary Science Reviews
Reason Papers
Remote Sensing
Remote Sensing of Environment
Renewable Energy
Reviews of Geophysics
Risk Analysis
Russian Journal of Earth Sciences
Science
Science China Earth Sciences
Science of the Total Environment
Science, Technology & Human Values
Scientia Horticulturae
Sedimentary Geology
Social Philosophy and Policy
Social Studies of Science
Society
Soil Science
SOLA
Solar Physics
South African Journal of Science
Space Science Reviews
Spectrochimica Acta Part A: Molecular and Biomolecular Spectroscopy
Statistics, Politics, and Policy
Surveys in Geophysics
Technology
The Astrophysical Journal
The Cato Journal
The Cryosphere
The Electricity Journal
The European Physical Journal Plus
The Holocene
The Independent Review
The Lancet
The Lancet Infectious Diseases
The Open Atmospheric Science Journal
The Quarterly Review of Biology
The Review of Austrian Economics
The Review of Economics and Statistics
The Scientific World Journal
Theoretical and Applied Climatology
Topics in Catalysis
Trends in Parasitology
Water, Air, & Soil Pollution
Water Resources Research
Weather
Weather and Forecasting
Weather, Climate and Society
World Economics

Journal Count: 304

 

[Fern]

Oooh, please do share. You can pm me the sites if you wish.

I posted a link to one site already, IIRC it's a 'Mayan' thread in OT. However, that link was primarily focusing on a geologists work although at the end of the article he did mention the possible climate effect(s) given our solar system's current position in it's rotation. (Basically he found evidence of a fairly swift onset of global cooling the last time we were in this position - it was about 5,200 yrs ago.)

The others I didn't save. I just googled stuff like 'Mayan calendar and astronomy' and choose academic type sites. So, sorry but can't be of much help.

(BTW: I'm assuming you are being serious.)

Fern

 

[Poptech]

Using scientific journals makes perfect sense when the goal is to look at legitimate scientific articles done by people knowledgable in the field. As the blogger put it, putting opinions into op-eds in financial journals and misrepresenting data is not science.

1. Please provide the objective criteria for determining a "legitimate scientific article".

2. Please provide the objective criteria for determining who is a person "knowledgeable in the field".

Not a single paper on the list is an op-ed. It is true that there are about a 100 or so on the list that deal with the socio-economic effects of climate change but this is no different than the WGII and WGIII sections of the IPCC report. Unlike those sections of the IPCC report all the papers from the list were peer-reviewed.

It's very possible most if those articles were included in supporting CC as so far everyone we've checked has. (And yes I personally have not merge the two lists to see what was and wasn't included - sue me)

Most of the papers from the list would not even show up in the search because:

1. They may not include the phrases "global warming" or "global climate change." They may just use "climate change", "AGW" or any other number of similar phrases.

2. Web of Science does not index every peer-reviewed journal.

3. Web of Science does not have a "peer-reviewed" only filter option. The "articles" document type includes content that may not be peer-reviewed; "Article: Reports of research on original works. Includes research papers, features, brief communications, case reports, technical notes, chronology, and full papers that were presented at a symposium or conference.".

This is a tech forum, I would hope the members here would understand databases better than this.

 

[Poptech]

I looked and didn't see any. You posted a link that had a link to a bunch of papers, But I already showed that the list didn't show what you wanted it to. Now you may be able to find some in that list, but I didn't see any.

Then you did not look very hard as there are many there. Here is a small example:

Can increasing carbon dioxide cause climate change? (PDF)
(Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Volume 94, Number 16, pp. 8335-8342, August 1997)
- Richard S. Lindzen

CO2-induced global warming: a skeptic's view of potential climate change (PDF)
(Climate Research, Volume 10, Number 1, pp. 69–82, April 1998)
- Sherwood B. Idso

Human Contribution to Climate Change Remains Questionable (PDF)
(Eos, Transactions American Geophysical Union, Volume 80, Issue 16, pp. 183-183, April 1999)
- S. Fred Singer

Is the additional greenhouse effect already evident in the current climate?
(Fresenius' Journal of Analytical Chemistry, Volume 371, Number 6, pp. 791-797, November 2001)
- E. Raschke

Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties (PDF)
(Climate Research, Volume 18, Number 3, pp. 259–275, November 2001)
- Willie H. Soon, Sallie L. Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier

Cooling of Atmosphere Due to CO2 Emission (PDF)
(Energy Sources, Volume 30, Issue 1, pp. 1-9, January 2008)
- G. V. Chilingar, L. F. Khilyuk, O. G. Sorokhtin

Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics (PDF)
(International Journal of Modern Physics B, Volume 23, Issue 3, pp. 275-364, January 2009)
- Gerhard Gerlich, Ralf D. Tscheuschner

Global Warming: A Critique of the Anthropogenic Model and its Consequences (PDF)
(Geoscience Canada, Volume 38, Number 1, pp. 41-48, March 2011)
- Norman R. Paterson

Is Global Warming Mainly Due to Anthropogenic Greenhouse Gas Emissions? (PDF)
(Energy Sources, Volume 33, Issue 21, pp. 1985-1992, August 2011)
- Xiaobing Zhaoa

Scrutinizing the atmospheric greenhouse effect and its climatic impact (PDF)
(Natural Science, Volume 3, Number 12, pp. 971-998, December 2011)
- Gerhard Kramm, Ralph Dlugi

 

[Poptech]

Global cooling being some sort of scientific issue in the 1970's is a myth. Even in the 70's Global warming was what the vast majority of science was pointing towards, it has only become even more overwhelming as the years have gone by.

It was not a "myth" that the media was hyping it,

1970 - Colder Winters Held Dawn of New Ice Age - Scientists See Ice Age In the Future (The Washington Post, January 11, 1970)
1970 - Is Mankind Manufacturing a New Ice Age for Itself? (L.A. Times, January 15, 1970)
1970 - New Ice Age May Descend On Man (Sumter Daily Item, January 26, 1970)
1970 - Pollution Could Cause Ice Age, Agency Reports (St. Petersburg Times, March 4, 1970)
1970 - Pollution Called Ice Age Threat (St. Petersburg Times, June 26, 1970)
1971 - U.S. Scientist Sees New Ice Age Coming (The Washington Post, July 9, 1971)
1971 - Ice Age Around the Corner (Chicago Tribune, July 10, 1971)
1971 - New Ice Age Coming - It's Already Getting Colder (L.A. Times, October 24, 1971)
1972 - Air pollution may cause ice age (Free-Lance Star, February 3, 1972)
1972 - Scientist Says New ice Age Coming (The Ledger, February 13, 1972)
1972 - Scientist predicts new ice age (Free-Lance Star, September 11, 1972)
1972 - British expert on Climate Change says Says New Ice Age Creeping Over Northern Hemisphere (Lewiston Evening Journal, September 11, 1972)
1972 - Climate Seen Cooling For Return Of Ice Age (Portsmouth Times, ‎September 11, 1972‎)
1972 - New Ice Age Slipping Over North (Press-Courier, September 11, 1972)
1972 - Ice Age Begins A New Assault In North (The Age, September 12, 1972)
1972 - Weather To Get Colder (Montreal Gazette, ‎September 12, 1972‎)
1972 - British climate expert predicts new Ice Age (The Christian Science Monitor, September 23, 1972)
1972 - Scientist Sees Chilling Signs of New Ice Age (L.A. Times, September 24, 1972)
1972 - Another Ice Age? (Time Magazine, November 13, 1972)
1973 - The Ice Age Cometh (The Saturday Review, March 24, 1973)
1973 - Weather-watchers think another ice age may be on the way (The Christian Science Monitor, December 11, 1973)
1974 - New evidence indicates ice age here (Eugene Register-Guard, May 29, 1974)
1974 - Another Ice Age? (Time Magazine, June 24, 1974)
1974 - 2 Scientists Think 'Little' Ice Age Near (The Hartford Courant, August 11, 1974)
1974 - Ice Age, worse food crisis seen (The Chicago Tribune, October 30, 1974)
1974 - Believes Pollution Could Bring On Ice Age (Ludington Daily News, December 4, 1974)
1974 - Pollution Could Spur Ice Age, Nasa Says (Beaver Country Times, ‎December 4, 1974‎)
1974 - Air Pollution May Trigger Ice Age, Scientists Feel (The Telegraph, ‎December 5, 1974‎)
1974 - More Air Pollution Could Trigger Ice Age Disaster (Daily Sentinel - ‎December 5, 1974‎)
1974 - Scientists Fear Smog Could Cause Ice Age (Milwaukee Journal, December 5, 1974)
1975 - Climate Changes Called Ominous (PDF) (The New York Times, January 19, 1975)
1975 - Climate Change: Chilling Possibilities (Science News, March 1, 1975)
1975 - B-r-r-r-r: New Ice Age on way soon? (The Chicago Tribune, March 2, 1975)
1975 - Cooling Trends Arouse Fear That New Ice Age Coming (Eugene Register-Guard, ‎March 2, 1975‎)
1975 - Is Another Ice Age Due? Arctic Ice Expands In Last Decade (Youngstown Vindicator - ‎March 2, 1975‎)
1975 - Is Earth Headed For Another Ice Age? (Reading Eagle, March 2, 1975)
1975 - New Ice Age Dawning? Significant Shift In Climate Seen (Times Daily, ‎March 2, 1975‎)
1975 - There's Troublesome Weather Ahead (Tri City Herald, ‎March 2, 1975‎)
1975 - Is Earth Doomed To Live Through Another Ice Age? (The Robesonian, ‎March 3, 1975‎)
1975 - The Ice Age cometh: the system that controls our climate (The Chicago Tribune, April 13, 1975)
1975 - The Cooling World (Newsweek, April 28, 1975)
1975 - Scientists Ask Why World Climate Is Changing; Major Cooling May Be Ahead (PDF) (The New York Times, May 21, 1975)
1975 - In the Grip of a New Ice Age? (International Wildlife, July-August, 1975)
1975 - Oil Spill Could Cause New Ice Age (Milwaukee Journal, December 11, 1975)
1976 - Worrisome CIA Report; Even U.S. Farms May be Hit by Cooling Trend (U.S. News & World Report, May 31, 1976)
1976 - The Cooling: Has the Next Ice Age Already Begun? (Book, 1976)
1977 - The Big Freeze (Time Magazine, January 31, 1977)
1977 - The Weather Conspiracy: The Coming of the New Ice Age (Book, 1977)
1977 - We Will Freeze in the Dark (Capital Cities Communications Documentary, Host: Nancy Dickerson, April 12, 1977)
1978 - The New Ice Age (Book, 1978)
1978 - Little Ice Age: Severe winters and cool summers ahead (Calgary Herald, January 10, 1978)
1978 - Winters Will Get Colder, 'we're Entering Little Ice Age' (Ellensburg Daily Record, January 10, 1978)
1978 - Geologist Says Winters Getting Colder (Middlesboro Daily News, January 16, 1978)
1978 - It's Going To Get Colder (Boca Raton News, ‎January 17, 1978‎)
1978 - Believe new ice age is coming (The Bryan Times, March 31, 1978)
1978 - The Coming Ice Age (In Search Of TV Show, Season 2, Episode 23, Host: Leonard Nimoy, May 1978)
1978 - An Ice Age Is Coming Weather Expert Fears (Milwaukee Sentinel, November 17, 1978)
1979 - New ice age almost upon us? (The Christian Science Monitor, November 14, 1979)

 

[Darwin333]

I posted a link to one site already, IIRC it's a 'Mayan' thread in OT. However, that link was primarily focusing on a geologists work although at the end of the article he did mention the possible climate effect(s) given our solar system's current position in it's rotation. (Basically he found evidence of a fairly swift onset of global cooling the last time we were in this position - it was about 5,200 yrs ago.)

The others I didn't save. I just googled stuff like 'Mayan calendar and astronomy' and choose academic type sites. So, sorry but can't be of much help.

(BTW: I'm assuming you are being serious.)

Fern

I was being absolutely serious. I will see what I can dig up with my google-fu. Do you remember the name of the OT thread, I assume there is a bunch of crap about the Mayans and 2012 to weed through.

 

[Jaskalas]

...

More than 20% less summer minimum extent. Compared to the 1970s when it peaked admist fears of a sudden ice age. Don't see the concern. The arctic ocean has previously been ice free, I expect it to return to that state some day.

Regardless it is not currently ice free. It easily re-freezes every winter. So I see your summer minimum extent and raise you a:

 

[monovillage]

A leak of an early draft of the IPCC AR5 if anyone here is interested.
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-panel-drafts-speaks-to-need-for-new-process/

With an admission of solar forcing. The linked sites are pretty spotty.

 

[Poptech]

Ha Ha.
Here's what the website says it is:

"Impartial Analysis of Popular Trends and Technology"

And yet this "impartial" website is hundreds of articles every single one of which is about global warmin attempts to debunk global warming. Every one.
Here's a list:

You mean the majority in the resource section (except for 911, Health Care, Wikipedia and John Stewart have nothing to do with GW) as that is not all the articles on the site.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Thanks.

Yes, it is interesting.

Just found this article on CERN's work.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/25/cern_cloud_cosmic_ray_first_results/

http://thingsbreak.wordpress.com/tag/jasper-kirkby/

I posted a link to one site already, IIRC it's a 'Mayan' thread in OT. However, that link was primarily focusing on a geologists work although at the end of the article he did mention the possible climate effect(s) given our solar system's current position in it's rotation. (Basically he found evidence of a fairly swift onset of global cooling the last time we were in this position - it was about 5,200 yrs ago.)

The Sun's galactic rotation period is 200 million years.

 

[RampantAndroid]

More than 20% less summer minimum extent. Compared to the 1970s when it peaked admist fears of a sudden ice age. Don't see the concern. The arctic ocean has previously been ice free, I expect it to return to that state some day.

Regardless it is not currently ice free. It easily re-freezes every winter. So I see your summer minimum extent and raise you a:

Yes - I think people fail to understand that since we went through a minor cooling period ("minor") the ice caps were larger than normal. Hell, we can look into the middle ages for an ice age, really.

 

[monovillage]

I was being absolutely serious. I will see what I can dig up with my google-fu. Do you remember the name of the OT thread, I assume there is a bunch of crap about the Mayans and 2012 to weed through.

More about CERN from today.
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/jasper...loud_in_lab_to_understand_climat_change/2601/

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

More about CERN from today.
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/jasper...loud_in_lab_to_understand_climat_change/2601/

Thanks.

Kirkby: This concerns something called solar climate variability, which is an observation from many different paleoclimatic reconstructions that there seem to be variations in the sun that cause variations in the climate by about the same amount that we’re experiencing at the moment. Those observations are too many to dismiss and to explain away as mere coincidence. There’s something going on that we don’t understand. So, at the moment there’s a question mark — do we understand the natural causes of climate change? And the answer is, we understand a little about it, but in total we understand very, very little about it. Until we really understand the natural causes of climate change, we’ll always have a huge question mark as to what our understanding is of current climate change.

e360: Let’s assume that cosmic rays don’t have an effect on clouds. What does that mean?

Kirkby: It will settle a particular question, which to my mind can only be settled by experimental data. There’s a huge amount of opinion one way or another on the blogosphere that says “cosmic rays have no effect on the climate” to “cosmic rays do everything in the climate.” And no matter how passionately people believe this view or that view, we can’t settle it by energetic debate. We have to settle it by experimental measurements. We will settle that question, so there will be a firm scientific basis for answering that question by the end of CLOUD, as opposed to a gazillion opinions...

There have been many observations for solar climate variability, but no established mechanism. Cosmic rays are essentially one of the leading candidates — for me, the leading candidate — but if we find that there’s nothing there, we simply eliminate that as a mechanism. Who knows? We really don’t know at this stage.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

http://thingsbreak.wordpress.com/tag/jasper-kirkby/

Oh look...you found a blog. Is that the kind of "science" you believe in?

 

[Jaskalas]

.2C? How about .8C. How much of that do we own. HOW MUCH.


You know what you did is the same thing NVidia and ATI pull when presenting charts on GPU performance.

Now dance for me Denier!

Look at your own graph. 1990 - present. Notice anything? It moves about 0.2c.

 

[piasabird]

The north pole polar ice cap has not always been the same size. Dont you know that? I would like to see data for the last 200 years? How about data for the last 1,000 years???

There is not enough data available We are lucky to find temp data for the last 100 years.

One thing to look at is that the polar ice caps hold a lot of the drinking water available on the earth. So then they melt they might cause pressure on the tectonic plates or maybe this causes a more active period of volcanic activity because the earth's core is heating up. Then once the super-volcanos erupt this causes the dust to cool off the earth and the next ice age to start.

Whatever causes things to happen we have only been able to measure actual things happening for a few hundred years, to a few thousand years. Some scientists estimate an ice age would occur every 150,000 years. once all the ice is melted then it is time for the slow progress of a cooling cycle. Maybe what we should be watching for is Volcanic activity.