New AMD Phenom Article on gamespot

ibex333

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2005
4,094
123
106
http://www.gamespot.com/featur...ml?tag=topslot;title;1


While reading the article I got an impression that the Phenom has L3 cache BUILT IN. Is that even possible? I thought L3 cache resides on the mobo?

Also does anyone know what is the point of including an OC utility with the mobo when the CPU can simply be factory OC'd to max speed and then sold to the customer? Is this a silly marketing trick?
It just seems strange to me that the company actually wants me to OC by giving me a way to do so, but has me do it instead of selling the CPU already OC'd.


Be it as it may, I'm still glad this thing is out, because maybe soon I'll be able to buy a Q6600 for cheap cause of price drops.
What do you guys think about the new Phenom after reading the news?
 

j0j081

Banned
Aug 26, 2007
1,090
0
0
wow that article makes it look pretty damn good. how much is it meant to cost though?
 

Lord Banshee

Golden Member
Sep 8, 2004
1,495
0
0
L3 cache on the mobo? All SRAM has been on the CPU die or at least on the package of the CPU for all the x86 CPUs i've seen. But i did see a PowerPC architecture that had L3 cache on the mobo.
 

bdubyah

Senior member
Nov 20, 2007
541
1
81
meh, AMD is still behind though. they are comparing new AMD to current Intel. and once new Intel comes out, current Intel will be cheaper and still be on par with new AMD. Then there's the new Intel, which will beat out everything.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
0
I'll take another look at them when the new stepping is out and prices have come back to earth.

But the Penryn quad core that is replacing the Q6600 at the same price point will still blow it away, especially when clocked at the insane speeds that will be possible.
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,630
2
81
as long as all we see are articles about the parts they all look good, I will wait until they have some parts out in mass and in a good revision then decide.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,139
11,827
136
Originally posted by: Lord Banshee
L3 cache on the mobo? All SRAM has been on the CPU die or at least on the package of the CPU for all the x86 CPUs i've seen. But i did see a PowerPC architecture that had L3 cache on the mobo.

The K6-3 used to treat SRAM on the motherboard as L3 cache. This happened becasue the K6-2 and its predecessors all had no on-die L2 cache, so the L2 was still on the motherboard (which was a holdover from the old Socket 7 days that stayed with Super 7 throughout its lifetime). The K6-3 has on-die L2 cache, so the onboard cache was bumped to a different spot in the cache hierarchy.
 

Lord Banshee

Golden Member
Sep 8, 2004
1,495
0
0
Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
Originally posted by: Lord Banshee
L3 cache on the mobo? All SRAM has been on the CPU die or at least on the package of the CPU for all the x86 CPUs i've seen. But i did see a PowerPC architecture that had L3 cache on the mobo.

The K6-3 used to treat SRAM on the motherboard as L3 cache. This happened becasue the K6-2 and its predecessors all had no on-die L2 cache, so the L2 was still on the motherboard (which was a holdover from the old Socket 7 days that stayed with Super 7 throughout its lifetime). The K6-3 has on-die L2 cache, so the onboard cache was bumped to a different spot in the cache hierarchy.

*off topic*

Nice, never knew that. So did many motherboard add this L3 cache on board?

*on topic*

I really don't see how this is a good review for AMD? The graphs show it how it is, at 2.6GHz it is still slower than Intel at 2.6Ghz. It would be good for AMD if they at least won one benchmark.
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
Originally posted by: ibex333Also does anyone know what is the point of including an OC utility with the mobo when the CPU can simply be factory OC'd to max speed and then sold to the customer? Is this a silly marketing trick?

1) Circuits get faster as you cool them.
2) Circuits get faster as you apply higher voltage.
3) Transistors slow down as they age. The slowdown can be significant nowadays. This is something a lot of people here aren't aware of.
3b) The slowdown gets drastically worse with higher voltage and with higher temperature. High voltage + low temperature is probably worse than normal voltage + normal temperature (they're exponential effects).
4) Manufacturers can only sell CPUs at a speed which they will still be able to handle after a large number of years at the worst-allowed operating conditions.
5) Manufacturers worry about failures per million.

You can overclock because you're taking advantage of a few things:
1) OCers keep the CPU cooler than the spec'd maximum temperature.
2) OCers may raise the voltage (damaging the CPU).
3) OCers are overclocking new CPUs, not CPUs that have operated in adverse conditions for a few years.
4) OCers don't keep the CPU (or keep it OC'd) for as long as the manufacturer designs it to work.
5) Overclockers worry about failures per insert small number here and don't usually worry about even 1 in 100 parts failing. OCers are willing to tolerate occasional crashes (if they're rare enough, a user might even think crashes are caused by a bad driver or software bug rather than their "rock solid" OC...particularly if the OC really was stable until the transistors had a few weeks|months|years to age).

As an individual consumer with low reliability expectations, you can eat into the margins that the manufacturer has to leave.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I was under the impression that L3 cache is on the CPU module, just not part of the actual die.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
if amd fixes the TLB errata and drops the prices considerably AND the phenoms OC well, I could be dumping my rig in comment for a Xfired Phenom rig, we'll see what happens in the next 2 or 3 months.
 

ibex333

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2005
4,094
123
106
Yeah.. The review is not really what some people here are used to seeing.(to say the least). But I never said it was, did I? ;)

So lets see if I get this whole cache thing now... The L1, 2 and 3 cache all reside within a CPU these days?

Oh, and thank you for your explanation CTho9305.

Originally posted by: j0j081
wow that article makes it look pretty damn good. how much is it meant to cost though?

The prices are listed in the article on the bottom.

Quoted from gamespot:

"AMD has told GameSpot that the Phenom 9900 will sell for "below $350" when the chip arrives next spring. In comparison, the Intel Core 2 Q6700 currently retails for just under $550, but we wouldn't be surprised if Intel cuts the price to give the Phenom 9900 a warm welcome. AMD will also ship a 2.4GHz Phenom 9700 at around the same time for "below $300." Consumers can currently find the 2.2GHz Phenom 9500 and 2.3GHz Phenom 9600 in retail for about $250 and $275, respectively."
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,139
11,827
136
Originally posted by: Lord Banshee

*off topic*

Nice, never knew that. So did many motherboard add this L3 cache on board?

At least as far as Super 7 motherboards are concerned, they all had on-board SRAM, so if you popped a K6-3 in there, then they all had L3 cache.