New 24-inch Viewsonic VX2435wm is a P-MVA panel

[BernardP]

According to Prad.de

It was thought to be a TN panel, but it is a P-MVA after all

See page 3 for recent news

Also, another monitor with no DVI connector, only HDMI.

 

[Matt2]

I cant believe how popular TN panels are.

Buying a TN is like treating yourself to some mystery meat from the Tijuana meat market.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Matt2
I cant believe how popular TN panels are.

Buying a TN is like treating yourself to some mystery meat from the Tijuana meat market.

Money?

TN panels were the first to produce acceptable response times at an affordable price...

Much like with all fights, the first to land the big blow is the one that wins...in this case unfortunately.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: Matt2
I cant believe how popular TN panels are.

Buying a TN is like treating yourself to some mystery meat from the Tijuana meat market.

Money?

TN panels were the first to produce acceptable response times at an affordable price...

Much like with all fights, the first to land the big blow is the one that wins...in this case unfortunately.

I agree that the low price is what is driving this inferior product, I guess you really do get what you pay for.

 

[ElFenix]

anyone have a primer on the different panel types and what the pluses and minuses are?



as for inferior products becoming popular, it's been shown that people prefer 'larger' over 'higher quality' in a series of experiments involving a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a videotape, vs the original tape. (or maybe it was a DVD and they used an analog copying mechanism for it)

 

[SlowSpyder]

As far as I'm aware all I have ever owned is TN panels. I don't notice any problems with them, don't know if I'm in the majority or minority. I'm not sure if some people nitpick and are overy dramatic about imperfections or are just more sensitive to color depth and vieing angle then I am. <shrug>

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
anyone have a primer on the different panel types and what the pluses and minuses are?



as for inferior products becoming popular, it's been shown that people prefer 'larger' over 'higher quality' in a series of experiments involving a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a videotape, vs the original tape. (or maybe it was a DVD and they used an analog copying mechanism for it)

Start here

I just dont like how user reviews posted at newegg and other places, continually praise TN panels like they are on the same level as the $600 NEC20MGX2 for only $200. SO much false information ready to pounce on the unsuspecting buyer!

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
As far as I'm aware all I have ever owned is TN panels. I don't notice any problems with them, don't know if I'm in the majority or minority. I'm not sure if some people nitpick and are overy dramatic about imperfections or are just more sensitive to color depth and vieing angle then I am. <shrug>

Well, it definitely helps that you've never seen a non-TN screen. I've only owned one TN and that was my very first LCD. Once I laid my eyes upon an S-IPS screen, it was love at first sight!

I'll never go back! Neeevvveeer!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Modular]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: ElFenix
anyone have a primer on the different panel types and what the pluses and minuses are?

Start here

I just dont like how user reviews posted at newegg and other places, continually praise TN panels like they are on the same level as the $600 NEC20MGX2 for only $200. SO much false information ready to pounce on the unsuspecting buyer!

Yes, but the question of why remains unanswered...why is a TN inferior? No offense to that link you provided, but 177 pages of reading to hopefully find the panel your interested in is not all that intuitive. Since you seem to be knowledgeable about why TN is inferior, would you care to extrapolate?


Edit: This was helpful but are these differences really noticeable to the average user? I'd love to see a real world comparison, such as a picture of the same image on 2 different panel types.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: Modular

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: ElFenix
anyone have a primer on the different panel types and what the pluses and minuses are?

Start here

I just dont like how user reviews posted at newegg and other places, continually praise TN panels like they are on the same level as the $600 NEC20MGX2 for only $200. SO much false information ready to pounce on the unsuspecting buyer!

Yes, but the question of why remains unanswered...why is a TN inferior? No offense to that link you provided, but 177 pages of reading to hopefully find the panel your interested in is not all that intuitive. Since you seem to be knowledgeable about why TN is inferior, would you care to extrapolate?

Taken off the very first page of the thread:

TN (Twisted Nematic): Without Overdrive, this type of panel offers the fastest pixel response time. This does however come at the expensive of viewing angles and color fidelity. Out of all TFT-LCD panels, the TN type has the lowest contrast. It is also a 6-bit color depth panel, meaning dithering or frame rate control (FRC) must be employed to reach close to a full 8-bit depth. Pixels in their active state on a TN are black, while in their inactive, white.

Horrible viewing angles. Look off center of a TN panel, even just a little bit and watch your colors shift and wash out.

LOw contrast ratio.

6-bit color!!! The panel can't even display 16.7m colors without using dithering. Even with dithering, the panel is still only emulating 8-bit color depth.

The only thing TN panels have going for them besides price, is that they are super fast. But ask yourself, is that extra speed really worth it to you when your brand new LCD can't even reproduce colors accurately?

 

[dennilfloss]

It's like VHS vs Betamax again.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
It's like VHS vs Betamax again.

BTW, I am still regularly using my circa-1985 Sony SL-HF600 Beta HiFi

I hope I don't jinx it by telling this.

 

[postmortemIA]

Samsung TN panels are somewhat decent. I have S-MVA panel now, and it has its own set of issues. Although color is richer and not washed out, S-MVA has banding issues but none of my TN panels has any banding issue whatsoever.

 

[TheRyuu]

*Hugs VX2025wm*

Last great (cheap) good Viewsonic Panel IMHO.
P-MVA all the way.

 

[HannibalX]

I have the Samsung SyncMaster 225BW. It's a TN panel and has a 5ms response time. It's great!

 

[MrX8503]

people need to stop buying these crappy TN panels. The inflation of TN's are killing out the S-IPS.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: MrX8503
people need to stop buying these crappy TN panels. The inflation of TN's are killing out the S-IPS.

Exactly. The more TN panels take over, the less quality panels like S-IPS will be available to the consumers.

Quality panels just cant compete when they boast a $400+ price tag compared to a $200 TN panel.

It's a shame too.

The problem is that people dont research LCD displays like they do other components. They see a fast response time and a cheap price tag and jump all over it. Most pay no attention to max viewing angle, true 8-bit color, or dot pitch.

Dot pitch is probably the worst thing about these 22" TN panels that fly off the shelves. You're looking at the same number of pixels on a screen two inches bigger than a 20.1". If you've ever seen a 17" 1280x1024 LCD and a 19" 1280x1024 LCD you know about the grainy mess I am talking about.

 

[ebeattie]

I had a Sceptre 22" TN for about two weeks and I RMAed back to newegg a couple of days ago. Just could not find a way to like it. After the initial shock and awe of the monitor wore off, I was very disappointed at the picture I got. On alot of pictures, it looked like one big mess. No clear colors, very grainy looking and just unacceptable picture reproduction. Gaming was ok, no visible ghosting but extremely grainy. COD2 was hard to play online cause I simply could not make out the enemy at long distances. plus the picture looked washed out and just left a very bland taste in my mouth.

Im back to using my 19" Trinitron until my tax returns all come in. Soon as they do, Im on newegg ordering myself the 24" BenQ panel. S-IPS panel type and from what I have heard the best monitor around unless your totally a professional gamer and need a CRT.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: ebeattie
I had a Sceptre 22" TN for about two weeks and I RMAed back to newegg a couple of days ago. Just could not find a way to like it. After the initial shock and awe of the monitor wore off, I was very disappointed at the picture I got. On alot of pictures, it looked like one big mess. No clear colors, very grainy looking and just unacceptable picture reproduction. Gaming was ok, no visible ghosting but extremely grainy. COD2 was hard to play online cause I simply could not make out the enemy at long distances. plus the picture looked washed out and just left a very bland taste in my mouth.

Im back to using my 19" Trinitron until my tax returns all come in. Soon as they do, Im on newegg ordering myself the 24" BenQ panel. S-IPS panel type and from what I have heard the best monitor around unless your totally a professional gamer and need a CRT.

I dont think the BenQ is S-IPS, I'm pretty sure it's a P-MVA.

Either way, a huge step up from that Sceptre.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Matt2
I dont think the BenQ is S-IPS, I'm pretty sure it's a P-MVA.

Either way, a huge step up from that Sceptre.

You're correct, it's an MVA unit.

Originally posted by: Matt2
Buying a TN is like treating yourself to some mystery meat from the Tijuana meat market.

:laugh:

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: ebeattie
I had a Sceptre 22" TN for about two weeks and I RMAed back to newegg a couple of days ago. Just could not find a way to like it. After the initial shock and awe of the monitor wore off, I was very disappointed at the picture I got. On alot of pictures, it looked like one big mess. No clear colors, very grainy looking and just unacceptable picture reproduction. Gaming was ok, no visible ghosting but extremely grainy. COD2 was hard to play online cause I simply could not make out the enemy at long distances. plus the picture looked washed out and just left a very bland taste in my mouth.

Im back to using my 19" Trinitron until my tax returns all come in. Soon as they do, Im on newegg ordering myself the 24" BenQ panel. S-IPS panel type and from what I have heard the best monitor around unless your totally a professional gamer and need a CRT.

I dont think the BenQ is S-IPS, I'm pretty sure it's a P-MVA.

Either way, a huge step up from that Sceptre.

The BenQ 22' inch is TN just like all the rest right now ... the 24 inch is P-MVA though.

A good alternative to the TN's was the 21 inch Gateway.. for a little more money it looked a lot better, but I couldn't find a new one in stock anywhere when I was LCD shopping back in December, so I'm pretty sure there all gone now.

If you don't want a TN widescreen theres very few attractive options between 20.1 & 24 inchs these days, which is partly why I finally cut loose the purse strings & went for the 24 inch BenQ... 20.1 was too small & none of the 22's could cut it for me.

Edit: Meant to say 20 inchs was too small ... if I'd found the 21 inch Gateway in stock @ a B&M I would have bought it.

 

[Zebo]

The LCD nightmare continues. First they were foist upon us with thier crappy motion blur, poor blacks, input lag etc now they pimp and sell the most garbagy tech availiable and every Joesixpack buys it killing off better techs such as IPS/PVA Killing off superior CRT's wasnt enough I guess.

(and anyone who thinks LCD's have any kind of advantage other than brightness and text over CRTs is ignorant and clueless. go to the large gaming lans where some serious cash is involved like quakecon or someting you wont find one using a LCD, not a one, even the "good" ones let alone a POS TN)

 

[ebeattie]

Heh, I totally thought that the BenQ was a IPS. Ok though, all the guys over at hardocp are apparently in love with that monster.

DEATH TO TN

btw, captante how do you like your benq?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Dot pitch is probably the worst thing about these 22" TN panels that fly off the shelves. You're looking at the same number of pixels on a screen two inches bigger than a 20.1". If you've ever seen a 17" 1280x1024 LCD and a 19" 1280x1024 LCD you know about the grainy mess I am talking about.

I guess this is subjective, I would not want this resolution on anything smaller then my 22", personally.

 

[Captante]

Originally posted by: ebeattie
Heh, I totally thought that the BenQ was a IPS. Ok though, all the guys over at hardocp are apparently in love with that monster.

DEATH TO TN

btw, captante how do you like your benq?

Its great ... I did a ton of shopping around before buying & compared it to several other 24's, plus I checked out a bunch of the 22's but I couldn't find any that satisfied me, ESPECIALLY after I compared the older Gateway 21 inch side-by-side with the new 22' inch TN model & realized just how bad it was in videos & photos for artifacting & color reproduction.

I also do game a lot (& came from a 21 inch Trinitron CRT) & the BenQ is a very good gaming moniter with no significant input lag & very little ghosting... color reproduction is very good & blacks are some of the darkest I've seen ... not as good as my CRT, but close & video looks fantastic, now that I finally got Pure-video working correctly. The only real knocks on the FP241W are the lack of 1:1 pixel scaling on older models (should be fixed in newer ones) & the fact that it costs a bit more then some other 24's, but in this case you get what you pay for & I only plan on using it on my PC anyway.

It came down to the BenQ or the cheaper Gateway 24 inch & I decided to go with picture quality over price, plus the fact that BenQ give you a "zero dead pixels" warranty was a factor in the decision... Gateway allows up to 5 before they'll replace the unit & to me thats not acceptable.

Edit: Go take a look at this HUGE thread over at HardOCP about the BenQ for more information:

BenQ FP241W thread