nevermind.
- Thread starter KarenMarie
- Start date
dunno... i am not sure if this is a good thing or not.
on the one hand, i seem to remember reading that 35% of the union member were not happy about the politics in the last election. More than that were not happy on how they were represented by their leaders and felt paying their dues was a waste of money.
on the other hand.. there is strenght in numbers and competing unions might not have a central focus.
but the bottom line is... when unions were formed, they were necessary. Now...there are enough federal, state and local laws regarding employment, they are not a necessity at all anymore. Many say they hurt the country cause they take the USA workers out of the competitive world workforce.
I have never been in a union. They tried to get it in one place I worked in 1987 and I voted NO cause it would have done me more harm than good.
on the one hand, i seem to remember reading that 35% of the union member were not happy about the politics in the last election. More than that were not happy on how they were represented by their leaders and felt paying their dues was a waste of money.
on the other hand.. there is strenght in numbers and competing unions might not have a central focus.
but the bottom line is... when unions were formed, they were necessary. Now...there are enough federal, state and local laws regarding employment, they are not a necessity at all anymore. Many say they hurt the country cause they take the USA workers out of the competitive world workforce.
I have never been in a union. They tried to get it in one place I worked in 1987 and I voted NO cause it would have done me more harm than good.
I disagree. All you have to do is look at the conditons workers had to endure pre-Union in this country to see how important and positive unions were for the workforce and the development of the middle class in this country at one time. People forget about things like coal miners working for script, the Triangle Shirtwaist Company fire, child labor, Tammany Hall, and the sweat shops in this country that rivaled anything you find in third world countries today.
I agree that many labor unions have strayed from their intended purpose though. They and business need to work together to protect workers' rights while also protecting and supporting the business's ability to stay afloat and complete in today's global market. Unfortunately it's become more like the political climate in this country with an us versus them mentality. Both lose.
I believe that the complete collapse of unions would lead to disasterous results for a large portion of the middle class in this country.
Nah... as i said above... there are enuf federal, state and local employment laws that we will never go back to the sweatshops of old. while the unions still carry some weight... i think they got to the point where they are just looking after the leaders and not so much the workers.
My experience with unions is that they enable the incompetent and lazy to remain employed, and tie the hands of employers to seek better qualified employees. I worked in one place where the people around me were so lazy they wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire to put you out. But if a supervisor said anything to them, they ran crying and screaming to the shop steward, whining about how they were being oppressed and mistreated.
Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Too bad we don't have a forum for news.
Too bad not everyone wants to go to that cesspool and see the rest of the crap that goes on there.
Nah... as i said above... there are enuf federal, state and local employment laws that we will never go back to the sweatshops of old. while the unions still carry some weight... i think they got to the point where they are just looking after the leaders and not so much the workers.[/quote]
First of all, I'm sure I don't have to point out to you that a lot of those laws were enacted as a result of labor union pressure.
Second, I agree with you in theory, but without unions who will the government side with? Before unions and during the fight for unionization, state and federal government officials and law enforcement most often sided with business. It led to riots and practically civil war in some cases. It wasn't until the unions grew and had the power of numbers of members that the government started to take their concerns seriously. Have you ever read about the Battle of Blair Mountain among others?
First of all, I'm sure I don't have to point out to you that a lot of those laws were enacted as a result of labor union pressure.
Second, I agree with you in theory, but without unions who will the government side with? Before unions and during the fight for unionization, state and federal government officials and law enforcement most often sided with business. It led to riots and practically civil war in some cases. It wasn't until the unions grew and had the power of numbers of members that the government started to take their concerns seriously. Have you ever read about the Battle of Blair Mountain among others?
And that would be an example of what I said about the unions needing to protect and support the business's ability to stay afloat. Unions aren't bad, the way they are being led today is the problem. Maybe that's what the members of the unions in the original post are doing. Trying to get the leadership to change their attitudes and practices. If so, I say good for them.
Too bad not everyone wants to go to that cesspool and see the rest of the crap that goes on there.
And you pointing out that it belongs in P&N will not make it magically appear there. God forbid that there should actually be some interesting and informative material in OT. Like I said, many people to not go into P&N because, while there may be some good info there, most of it is just partisan namecalling and chestpuffing by a bunch of wannabe pundit blowhards. A little bit of actual :gasp: NEWS in OT isn't going to kill anyone.
Oh, that's right. You're the one with friends in high places. The one who's always setting things straight in FI. I forgot, you are of "The Chosen".
while i understand that P&N is where most politics and news usually go, I did not realize that news was not allowed in OT. It was not my intention to start a flame fest on whether or not it belongs here or who is important/connected and who is not. I will just delete the info in the thread and not interefer with the usual "do you shave your...?" or "I am drunk" threads.
sorry.
sorry.
olds
Elite Member
- Mar 3, 2000
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Originally posted by: KarenMarie
while i understand that P&N is where most politics and news usually go, I did not realize that news was not allowed in OT. It was not my intention to start a flame fest on whether or not it belongs here or who is important/connected and who is not. I will just delete the info in the thread and not interefer with the usual "do you shave your...?" or "I am drunk" threads.
sorry.
But I was just starting to have fun.
Well, I personally wish the unions good luck. They have done good things for american workers in the past. Some of the better jobs out there are well paying because of unions. As the US economy moves more to a service type industry people will be paid less. When was the last time the minimum wage was increased? Hopefully something will change with the depegging of the chineese yen to the dollar. The US governement was crazy to let it go on for as long as it did. Still I thik there might be a place for unions in this country, or some other political type organization. Health care needs addressing in this country along with other social problems.
Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
while i understand that P&N is where most politics and news usually go, I did not realize that news was not allowed in OT. It was not my intention to start a flame fest on whether or not it belongs here or who is important/connected and who is not. I will just delete the info in the thread and not interefer with the usual "do you shave your...?" or "I am drunk" threads.
sorry.
But I was just starting to have fun.
yea... but i have had an anagonizing back ache since Thursday that no amount of drugs or booze will allievate and I am in no mood.
But we can start a new thread to antagonize ppl
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