Networked PCs invisible to each other

[TheJTrain]

The way things used to be: A Win2K PC and a WinXP PC were networked on a hub, members of the same workgroup, using static IPs with NetBEUI installed and NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled (but NetBEUI was the only protocol bound to file and printer sharing). The PCs recognized each other and the Win2K PC could read/edit a single shared folder on the WinXP PC, no problem.

Fast-forward to today: I've got a basically brand new WinXP PC (new mobo, CPU, SATA HD, video card) that can't see the Win2K PC (which is absolutely unchanged) and vice versa. Well, not completely invisible - I can ping their IPs from each other, but I can't ping their names, which means no shared folders, hence the problem.

Here's a rundown of what I've done:
Fresh install on a new Chaintech nForce4 Ultra mobo (the old one was an ECS K7S5A), a new SATA HD (the old one was a PATA), using an XP Pro CD slipstreamed with SP2 (the old one was only SP1 I think, maybe not even that). Installed the included nForce4 drivers, but elected not to install the nVidia firewall and NAM, installed NetBEUI and bound it (and only it) to file and printer sharing and Client for MSFT Networks (same as the Win2K box), and NetBIOS over TCP/IP is enabled on both. After configuring IP/DNS/Gateway, it can connect to the Internet and ping the Win2K box - but no name recognition either way.

After searching in vain for WinXP firewall settings, it starts to look like SP2 is not installed (My Computer - Properties just shows WinXP, no mention of service packs, and nothing about its infamous firewall). I'm also wondering if not installing the nVidia firewall drivers is messing me up. I dl and install the latest nVidia drivers, installing the firewall etc., but then make sure it's turned off completely. Still no dice. I get on Windows Update, figure it'll tell me if I don't have SP2. Nothing concrete either way, it just gives me 16 security updates and sends me on my merry way. So I dl the .exe from MSFT's IT Pro site and run the installer. Once it's done the firewall starts chirping at me for anything and everything ("your PC might be at risk" yadda yadda yadda), so I turn it off (oh, and My Computer - Properties finally says SP2 so I'm kinda thinking something when wrong when I tried to do the slipstream thing with Autostreamer [does it matter that it was on a Win2K box?]). I've finally got SP2 but still no dice on the file sharing.

After reading just about every page I can find on www.ezlan.net (JackMDS, where are you? ) and www.practicallynetworked.com, I've checked and double-checked permissions on the shared folder (do I need to add a Guest user group or something? I don't remember having to do that before when it worked), disabled the setting in Local Security Policy that requires passwords for remote connections, and I've exhausted everything I can find and/or think of. For whatever reason, NetBIOS (or NetBEUI) on either PC just won't recognize the other's name (but again, I can successfully ping IPs from either direction).

Any suggestions before I wipe the HD and start over with my pre-SP1 WinXP CD without slipstreaming SP2?

Thanks in advance,
Jason

 

[lansalot]

start, run, \\othermachinesipaddress

then what?

 

[TheJTrain]

Originally posted by: lansalot
start, run, \\othermachinesipaddress

then what?

From either machine, same result: The network path was not found. But I can definitely ping either machine's ip address from the other machine.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: TheJTrain

Originally posted by: lansalot
start, run, \\othermachinesipaddress

then what?

From either machine, same result: The network path was not found. But I can definitely ping either machine's ip address from the other machine.

If you are really typing in the IP address (not computer name) with \\IP

then a few things:
1) Netbios not enabled under TCP/IP
2) Server and workstation service not bound to TCP/IP (NBT)
3) A firewall is blocking the request
4) permission problem (for testing purposes only enable guest account)

On both machines type "net config workstation" and "net config server", this will tell you exactly how the machine is running, regardless of any gui settings.

to take all this complication out of the mix, load netbeui on all machines (has to be on all machines) and unbind server/workstation service from TCP.

 

[TheJTrain]

(Note: for reference, the names of the machines are Dell (Win2K) and Custom (WinXP), and their IP addresses are 192.168.0.8 (Dell) and 192.168.0.5 (Custom) (of course, those addresses have been changed to protect the innocent).

If you are really typing in the IP address (not computer name) with \\IP

Yep, "ping custom" from Dell yields the error while "ping 192.168.0.5" from Dell yields success - likewise pinging Dell from Custom.

then a few things:
1) Netbios not enabled under TCP/IP

But it is enabled, on both machines:
Custom
Dell

2) Server and workstation service not bound to TCP/IP (NBT)

No idea how to change that binding - unless it's that "Client for Microsoft Networks" on the same bindings tab as "File and Printer Sharing" where you can bind or unbind NetBEUI and TCP/IP? Here are the current settings for both machines:
Custom
Dell

3) A firewall is blocking the request

Both the nVidia nForce4 chipset firewall and the Windows firewall are completely disabled and turned off. The same problem existed before I even installed a) the drivers for the chipset firewall and b) SP2 (and hence the Windows firewall).

4) permission problem (for testing purposes only enable guest account)

I don't remember having to set up a guest account before I upgraded all my hardware, but here's the Security tab of the one shared folder I'm trying to access:
Security tab

On both machines type "net config workstation" and "net config server", this will tell you exactly how the machine is running, regardless of any gui settings.

Here are my results for both machines, I'm clueless how to read them:
Custom
Dell

to take all this complication out of the mix, load netbeui on all machines (has to be on all machines) and unbind server/workstation service from TCP.

It's loaded on both machines:
Custom
Dell
How can I unbind server/workstation service from TCP?

Thanks for the help, can you see anything from the screenshots that I'm missing?
Jason

 

[spidey07]

I see many, many things wrong - the output of "net config workstation" and "net config server" show it all.

I don't have time to disect them all, but for starters...

Both machines have nothing in common for communicating. If you want netbios over TCP then you will see an instance for NBT - you have it on one machine but not the other which makes me think you really don't have netbios over TCP enabled on the adapters or file sharing isn't bound to it. The important is "server is active on....", that tells you the protocol the machine is configured to accept server requests like "I'd like to connect to you and read your shares". Workstatation is the "requester" meaning "this is how I want to ask other computers for resources and I will use this when the OS asks for something network related"

Second - the workgroup names are different.

from looking at the output of this I'd say its time to start over and remove any and all network adapters and configuration from device manager, reboot and try again. Its just that fubarred.

the main problem is windows networking itself and what you're experiencing is very common. workstation asks for something in one way/one particular protocol...server never understands what workstation is asking and hence you get nothing. And sometimes the operating system is just so fubarred with its network adapters and bindings that the only way to fix it is to start from scratch. don't believe what the gui tells you...the "net" commands tell you exactly how the OS is working. According to yours you don't have netbeui.

 

[TheJTrain]

Thanks for the expertise spidey. I'll try removing the network adapters from Custom (the new build), letting them reinstall and see what happens.

I'm really confused that there's anything wrong with Dell, since it was working last week and I haven't touched anything on it (hw, sw, settings, or otherwise). So the output of the net command showed that there's no NetBEUI installed? And that there's no NetBIOS over TCP on it (the only NetBT-tcpip entry is on Custom)? If you think I need to uninstall the network adapters from Dell also, I'll give that a shot too. Does it matter that Dell is a laptop with a wired PCMCIA providing the network adapter (and that sometimes it has the wired PCMCIA card removed and a wireless PCMCIA card installed instead)?

As for workgroup - they're both "trainstation". Or is it the "logon domain" that you're talking about? That's just the computer name, so no idea how I would change that other than renaming.

Regarding "server is active on" - so Custom (the machine with the shared folder) isn't active on any protocols as a server (I'm assuming that NetbiosSmb means nothing)?

If the GUI isn't accurate, are there CLI commands I can use to enable NetBIOS over TCP? And for that matter, to install/bind NetBEUI?

Again, thank you for your assistance and expertise.
Jason

 

[spidey07]

well, take my expertise for what its worth.

seen way too many problems with microsoft networking and have had to troubleshoot them.

what you really need here is for all computers on the network to agree on how to communicate.

 

[TheJTrain]

Well, after uninstalling and reinstalling Custom's network adapter, "net config" now gives me a NetBT-tcpip entry on both "server" and "workstation" (before, that entry only appeared under "workstation". "Ping custom" from Dell now succeeds, as it can translate the name custom to its IP of 192.168.0.5. Unfortunately, when trying to access the shared folder via \\custom\shared (or adding a new network place), it still says "network path could not be found".

So then I uninstalled and reinstalled Dell's wired network adapter. After going through the GUI settings like normal, "net config" didn't change appreciably from before, on either "server" or "workstation" - still no NetBT-tcpip entries. I even tried removing the wired PCMCIA card and trying with the wireless one - same result in "net config", no NetBT-tcpip anywhere.

I'm at the end of my rope here 'cause I transferred something like 8GB of files from the old Custom to Dell just as a holding area until I rebuilt Custom, intending to pull all of it back to Custom over the network when I was done. Now I can't do that and I feel basically SOL (which is gonna piss off the wife 'cause 4GB of that was her iPod music - doh!).

Anyone else have any ideas for what's going wrong here?

Jason

 

[TheJTrain]

Wow. Talk about running around in circles for hours for no reason. So I was messing around with Guest accounts on both machines, uninstalling and reinstalling the NetBEUI protocol from both machines, I finally stumbled on at least something that allows me to share the folder I need. I re-bound File and Printer Sharing to TCP/IP in Advanced Settings from the Network Properties window. Now I get NetBT-tcpip entries in net config on both machines. Sheesh. And it's very repeatable - when I unbind File and Printer Sharing from TCP/IP (and bind it to NetBEUI), immediately I lose sharing. Re-bind it, voila, sharing's back.

The thing I'm still confused about is why NetBEUI isn't working? I'm sure I had it working before the rebuild, 'cause when I came back to it, only NetBEUI was bound to File and Printer Sharing on Dell (the machine I didn't touch), so that's what it was set to when it was working last week.

Can anyone tell me what kind of entry I should see in net config when NetBEUI is installed and working? How about a command from the command line that enables it or checks its status? I did find nbtstat, but that just deals with NetBIOS over TCP/IP, not NetBEUI. I found a command called net start that takes netbeui as a parameter, but my machine (with NetBEUI visible and checked in the adapter properties window: screenshot) returns an error that the service name is invalid, that it's a service that's not configured on this system.

Anyone? Bueller?

Thanks again spidey for at least getting me looking in the right direction.

Jason

Edit: Ok, so I found a helpful page that listed the two files (.sys and .inf) that WinXP needs to run NetBEUI and where they need to be. I checked, and lo an behold they weren't there. I "uninstalled" NetBEUI, placed the two files in the proper folders, reinstalled it (though it had NetBEUI listed twice, so it seems the files were somewhere already, just not in the right place?), unbound File and Printer Sharing from TCP/IP (from both machines) and viola - folder sharing through NetBEUI, both directions. For future reference, the lines in net config that appear to relate to NetBEUI start with "nbf" and "nbf_ndiswannbfout.

 

[spidey07]

good deal. glad you got it going.

those commands really can help verify exactly what is going on as sometimes the GUI lies.

 

[TheJTrain]

Man, I see what you mean about the GUI lying to you (first time I've ever experienced that, I think). Looking back at the original net config for Dell, it appears that netBEUI was working even back then (the nbf and nbf_ndiswannbfout entries are there), it just had nothing to talk to since netBEUI wasn't working on Custom (confirmed by net config) and I had no way to force it to install other than the lying GUI. Once I found out that nbf.sys needed to be in the windows/system32/drivers folder and netnbf.inf in the windows/inf folder, everything worked like a charm. A couple days and many hours wasted on a GUI install by the lovely WinXP that actually didn't install anything.