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Network admins - questions about hardware

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
I'm working on a proposal to my company to upgrade our (very old) servers to new ones. I would prefer standard towers, which is what we are using now, than racks. In your experience, is there really a lot of benefit to using ECC ram and special server boards versus using plaing SDRAM/DDR and mainstream consumer equipment? There will probably be a maximum of 25 - 30 users using six individual servers. I personally would prefer to use mainstream hardware that we can replace at local computer stores in the event of an emergency. What are your thoughts on this?
 
Years ago we had home-made servers assembled w/ generic towers and parts. The performance and reliability weren't so good.
After we changed to rack-mount IBM and Dell servers (especially the IBM's), we haven't had as many issues.
 
Originally posted by: netsysadmin
I would suggest that you not build them yourselves and just buy them from Dell.

John

Yeah, that's the other option. I'd at least get a stable configuration, and the prices aren't too bad.
 
space, cooling, grounding, much, much, much easier to work on, power distribution, cabling, easy expasion/growth, etc.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
space, cooling, grounding, much, much, much easier to work on, power distribution, cabling, easy expasion/growth, etc.

I don't know the first thing about racks. Where would you recommend starting?
 
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: spidey07
space, cooling, grounding, much, much, much easier to work on, power distribution, cabling, easy expasion/growth, etc.

I don't know the first thing about racks. Where would you recommend starting?

Just take a look around dell. I believe they sell racks for their gear.

Same with HP.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Kaido
Originally posted by: spidey07
space, cooling, grounding, much, much, much easier to work on, power distribution, cabling, easy expasion/growth, etc.

I don't know the first thing about racks. Where would you recommend starting?

Just take a look around dell. I believe they sell racks for their gear.

Same with HP.

mmm 42u Dell racks with APC PDU's in the rear. Filled with a symmetra and Poweredge 2850's... 😉
 
heh, sorry.

I'm just so used to having data centers backed up by a dual UPS and generator. Power is multiple PDUs with physically diverse routes.

To tell you the truth I haven't seen a UPS in I don't know how long.
 
Our building wouldn't allow a generator. We had to fight to get dedicated power... fvckers 🙁
 
I also favor towers. I would never build one for my company, but check out Gateway, I got a sweet deal on a couple Dual Xeon 2.8 with 2GB Ram, and 3 SCSI 147gb 10rpm HDD in Raid 5. I got a tower rack at Office Max that holds the 7 new servers, and their respective monitors.
 
Why 6 servers for 25-30 users? Consolidate! Then it will be easy to justify buying from a teir 1. I would recommend the HP/Compaq Proliant series. I've been happy with all of the ML370 generations.
 
Originally posted by: spidey07
heh, sorry.

I'm just so used to having data centers backed up by a dual UPS and generator. Power is multiple PDUs with physically diverse routes.

To tell you the truth I haven't seen a UPS in I don't know how long.
Our building has redundent power w/ generator and UPS...or so they said. One storm came last year and next thing we knew, the power went out!
Putting a UPS in the rack for critical app servers eases my mind cause you can actually see it and you know it'll work.
What the building has is out of your control and no way can you verify anything until something goes wrong.
 
Originally posted by: Cooky
Originally posted by: spidey07
heh, sorry.

I'm just so used to having data centers backed up by a dual UPS and generator. Power is multiple PDUs with physically diverse routes.

To tell you the truth I haven't seen a UPS in I don't know how long.
Our building has redundent power w/ generator and UPS...or so they said. One storm came last year and next thing we knew, the power went out!
Putting a UPS in the rack for critical app servers eases my mind cause you can actually see it and you know it'll work.
What the building has is out of your control and no way can you verify anything until something goes wrong.

True, but I build the data centers so I know what the power is and its tested quarterly.
😉

So what the building has is in my control. I'm kinda a control freak like that.
 
Nothing better than standing across the street from your office smoking a cig as the HAZMAT and fire department try to find out why the 500 gallon tank of propane that's there to power the generator is leaking. :evil:
 
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Nothing better than standing across the street from your office smoking a cig as the HAZMAT and fire department try to find out why the 500 gallon tank of propane that's there to power the generator is leaking. :evil:

As we quickly derail this thread.....

Make sure that facilities puts gasoline in the generator and checks it periodically. That was a hoot.
 
Kaido, rack-mounting is a lot more expensive in terms of capital equipment, but allows you to make things neat and secure (as in bolted down) which will help you in terms of operational cost. Do it if you can. Can't tell you how many times I've had folks bump into tower servers, or think they're just another PC and unplug them.

Dell and HP servers are *okay* - but you can definitely do better. I'm partial to Supermicro and Tyan pre-integrated whiteboxes, you can find vendors on the net who will build you a system based on them. These are motherboard+case+power supply+fans+drive backplanes all pre-integrated, just add CPU, RAM, and RAID controller. That's a lot lower risk than building your own totally custom. Supermicro in particular is very common in real data centers. When buying a rack-mount system, get a cabinet and rails, and investigate to make sure the rails are good. For example, the Dell PowerEdge 2650/2850 rails I think are pretty good. The Dell 1850 rails suck. The Supermicro rails are okay. With rackmount servers, you want a four-post cabinet and rails, or you will have much pain.

Opterons are good. I like Opterons. But there's a lot more volume of P4/Xeons, and more deals to be had on those.

I would strongly urge you to use ECC memory on every single PC you have, period. That includes both desktops and servers. If you don't have ECC RAM, you have a lot of very high speed storage that is critical to your system with absolutely no error detection or correction - and remember that JEDEC specs allow one in 10^-8 bit operations to err. In practice, the error rate on good quality RAM is a few order of magnitudes less, but you also have a whole lot of bit operations going on, especially on a loaded server. You WILL have errors creep into memory. Do you want them to corrupt your data, or not?

If you're worried about parts availability, buy another box and leave it in the rack as a cold spare. Don't buy desktop grade parts so you can buy replacements quickly at retail. Buy good parts, and keep your own spares. I also personally prefer to have cold spares rather than a vendor extended warranty. I've had way too many long phone arguments with call centers in India and/or Texas where my on-site x-hour warranty got turned into them shipping parts in a few days and having a technician available in a week or more. If it really has to work, I don't trust any outside vendor not to let me down...

Power wise, if you have to go UPS, check out Liebert. I recently found out they made UPSs for mere mortals. Data centers use a lot of higher-end Liebert gear, they really understand power (that, or they *really* understand sales, but the folks doing the buying for that level of gear usually wouldn't be fooled easily). APC is a very very popular vendor, but remember that these guys started out as a desktop PC UPS vendor and went up-market. I used to be a fan of Best Power, who started out building data center sized gear and moved downmarket, but they got acquired and disappeared. But Liebert is similar. I put a lot more faith in people who engineer high-end power solutions being able to move to lower-end stuff than folks who started low-end moving to higher-end stuff.

Oh, and make sure you have really good power feeds into your server room including really good grounds.
 
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