Netbeui and win2k->winxp talking problem

[DeadSeaSquirrels]

Ok I finally got Win2k and WinXP talking to each other on a network by reinstalling NetBeui. I posted on Anandtech and some people said that you don't need netbeui to make the two talk but that it just wasn't worth it. Others are saying you need Netbeui (from their personal experience).

I am just wondering. For those who say that you don't need netbeui, how do you make them talk without that protocol? Thanks

I'll let the others rebutt afterwards.

 

[StraightPipe]

JackMDS?

 

[JackMDS]

You do not need NetBEUI for Windows (any Windows) to talk one to the other (AKA Sharing Files and Printers).

TCP/IP is the one protocol that you must use since it is the Internet protocol.

The problem is that many people keep using the Wizards and follow half baked BBSs? advices rather than thoroughly learn the manual setting of the Network around TCP/IP. Eventually some things get partially blocked or trashed and sharing through TCP/IP does not work.

NetBEUI is a much simpler Protocol and basically does not involve any settings, as a result there is nothing to ?screw up? and it works even for people who prefer to stay ignoramuses about Networking.

It is like taking the long road (NetBEUI) around town on the express way when you do not want to negotiate local traffic (TCP/IP)...

If you want to start again, this page includes links to setting and sharing of Windows variants.

Link to: Basic Networking

BTW. NetBEUI was developed by IBM for its LAN Manager product and has been adopted by Microsoft for its Windows NT, LAN Manager, and Windows for Workgroups products.

NetBEUI = NetBIOS Extended User Interface

Extended is Good it is like a Protocol on Viagra.:brokenheart:

Link: Set NetBEUI as the Default Sharing Protocol in WinXP.

===================================

My systems work very well sharing with TCP/IP.

However I use NetBEUI for local traffic and TCP/IP is Internet only,

Why? It allows me to Release TCP/IP with one click of a mouse to disconnect from the Internet and keep using the LAN.

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

Oops, double tap!

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

JackMDS, I'd sure like to see your "foolproof" guide to setting up workgroup file and print sharing with only TCP/IP in a mixed environment of W98, W2K, and WXP computers. I have yet to discover it, and I like to think I do actually RTFM on occasion.

I agree that most of the time it will work, however I've run across the situation where after months of seemingly normal operation, the clients suddenly can't see all the shared computers in Network Neighborhood. Almost without exception, I can look in some of the event logs and find messages about browser errors. Here's a typical one on my network, which continues to function because I do use NETBEUI.

8021: The browser was unable to retrieve a list of servers from the browser master \\BOBBI on the
network \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{672E9906-73A2-4EF6-8C85-4EB1476D8E66}. The data is the error code.

Another popular error is:

8032: The browser service has failed to retrieve the backup list too many times on transport
\Device\Nbf_{8FA747F0-A04F-458E-8C21-3D381BE75ECE}. The backup browser is stopping.

AFAIK, the issue in a typical workgroup is the boot order and the O/S in use sets the hierarchy for the browser election, and sometimes the wheels fall off the scheme. I have yet to find anyone that has a bulletproof scheme of solving this problem that doesn't involve a local DNS or WINS server. I've heard advice to disable the master browser capability of various computers, but that only works if you can assure that the one you don't disable will always be booted to assume the role of master browser.

I suspect that if a certain order of boots and shutdowns occur, that suddenly the backup browser and master browser aren't available any longer, and for reasons that I don't understand, a new browser election is not forced. That leaves you in limbo, and I see this way more often than I should if this scheme was bulletproof.

I'm all ears, how do you get around this issue with 100% reliability? I'll bet there are others here that would like to see this solution too.

 

[JackMDS]

It is hard to encompass in a BBS posts what can take many pages to cover.

There some functional truth in your description.

I have a notion that the TCP/IP get periodically ?trashed? by the ?Junk? dished trough the Internet and the way the above mentioned programs handle it. That is why I separate LAN traffic from Internet via NetBEUI.

Depending on the installation and typical usage following clean install, manual settings, and without Firewall software, and TCP/IP traffic interception by the variety of Virus, Spy, Ads etc, programs. A TCP/IP only Network can work well for very long time.

I have few LANs with very restricted Internet connection (used only for work related encrypted data transfer). It is a TCP/IP only LAN and it works OK.

P.S. My work systems are mainly WinXP pro with some Win98SE. I do not have any experience with tossing in Win2000 as work station, or G-d forbid WinME.

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

I don't normally have ME around, though sometimes I have a customer's machine here with it. I have W98, W2K, and WXP, both Home and Pro. The problem normally comes up when most or all of the network is shutdown, and then is restarted, most likely in a different order from the last startup.

FWIW, I used to run without NETBEUI, and I ran for a number of months until suddenly I couldn't find a couple of machines. I screwed around for several hours trying to figure what was going on, but nothing obvious was wrong. I've been running with NETBEUI for several years now, and that problem has never come back. I've also had a number of clients where the same thing happened, suddenly they couldn't browse to some of the systems. NETBEUI has always solved the problem, and I've yet to find a concrete solution without it in a small workgroup LAN.

I'm certainly willing to be proven wrong, AAMOF, I'd love to be able to dispense with NETBEUI and have 100% browsing, but so far I have not found the solution. I'd love to find a little WINS server that I could stick in the corner and solve this issue, but unless you want to run one of Microsoft's servers or Linux on the network, I've yet to find one.

 

[dpain]

The problem is not that the computers cannot talk with TCP/IP only, it is that microsoft's browser service can have issues with name resolution. TCP/IP is the only protocol you need to have a completely working network (I Promise). You may have browsing issues, but the computers can still talk. If you do not want to figure out why your having browsing issues, and you have a small network, add all of the IP address's for each client on your network on your network with there NetBIOS name into a hosts file. Then put this hosts file on every computer on your network. This is a clumsey way to solve resolution problems, but it will work.

dpain

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

Part of a "completely working network" is name resolution. Having to manually configure every machine because I don't want to use NETBEUI is not a solution in my mind. I have a lot of transient machines come through, and that would mean I'd have to manually configure those too. Thanks, but no thanks, I'll put in NETBEUI and be done with the problem.