Netanyahu: No Palestinian State If I’m Re-Elected

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touchstone

Senior member
Feb 25, 2015
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By taking you meant buying, right? Zionist immigrants bought unoccupied desert from sparsely populated localities. Their success at agriculture improved the economy so more locals who started moving in to the surrounding areas which were becoming prosperous. The fighting did not start until later.

You are either a highly ignorant person whom blindly believes all the propaganda you hear, or you are a propagandist yourself.

so if my cousins buy half the houses in your neighborhood, then it is ok if we kick you out, bulldoze your house and kill your family if they try to come back? would that be alright with you? thats what the israelis did. you have zero idea of what went on yet you call people ignorant, you sound like an ass. by the way, the palestinians were an impoverished people and the israelis often practiced 'creative' methods of getting them to sell the land. often this would involve outright killing every single last residing member of that family. massacres were common


i dont think you believe propaganda i think you are stupid and have no idea what actually happened and just pull stuff out of your ass in some misdirected attempt to tow the party line on foreign policy. most of the current supporters of israel are brainwashed conservative white people who dont even know a single jew and have no idea where israel is. fox and jerry fallwell told them israel is important so they (probably you) just blindly swallow the coolaid without ever looking to even look it up on wikipedia.




here i'll get you a click away from escaping your ignorance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Israeli_conflict
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I imagine he will wait awhile until it's obvious that he's giving him a middle finger and then do it. I mean in Netanyahu's case you reap what you sow, no?
Whatever...but I do rather enjoy watching Obama's display of juvenility...it's so him.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Whatever...but I do rather enjoy watching Obama's display of juvenility...it's so him.

I have to say I can't think of a single leader on the world stage today that employs more restraint and is more calculated in their responses than Obama. That's kind of his signature governance strategy, which is a temperate response to adversaries that go out of their way to provoke him. It usually backfires on those doing the provoking.

Netanyahu basically campaigned against him in 2012, insulted him in front of the news media, insulted him again by going behind his back and going to Congress, and Obama's response is likely to be a measured, displayed lack of enthusiasm. Seems like a pretty adult response to Netanyahu's childish antics, wouldn't you agree?
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I have to say I can't think of a single leader on the world stage today that employs more restraint and is more calculated in their responses than Obama. That's kind of his signature governance strategy, which is a temperate response to adversaries that go out of their way to provoke him. It usually backfires on those doing the provoking.

Netanyahu basically campaigned against him in 2012, insulted him in front of the news media, insulted him again by going behind his back and going to Congress, and Obama's response is likely to be a measured, displayed lack of enthusiasm. Seems like a pretty adult response to Netanyahu's childish antics, wouldn't you agree?
Yeah...and Netanyahu is a "chicken shit" too!

The relationship started badly with Obama basically campaigning against Netanyahu in 2009 and it went downhill from there. Actually it's quite interesting to see how their strained relationship began and who was most culpable.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/barack-obama-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-114750.html

Obama vs. Bibi
The U.S. and Israeli leaders have traded insults, slights and snubs for six years.


Another month, another insult.

Israel and the United States call themselves the strongest of allies, and in many ways they are. But the White House’s latest rebuke of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu — in the form of an anonymous complaint Wednesday about Netanyahu’s ambassador to Washington— is just one more example of how poisonous the personal relationships between the two governments have become.

The White House stopped short on Thursday of calling for the ouster of Israeli ambassador Ron Dermer after the New York Times quoted an unnamed senior official accusing Dermer of putting Netanyahu’s political fortunes ahead of his country’s interests. Administration officials were irate at Dermer after he arranged an appearance by the Israeli prime minister before a joint session of the Republican-led Congress for March. Netanyahu is a critic of President Obama’s diplomacy with Iran to curb its nuclear weapons program, and his address — never cleared by the White House — is expected to harden congressional opposition to a possible deal with Tehran.

The public rebuke of a foreign ambassador was an exceptional move. But it was in keeping with an Obama-Netanyahu relationship marked by a litany of protocol breaches.

The leaders tried to get the relationship off on the right foot. During a 2008 meeting in Jerusalem, Netanyahu reportedly pulled the visiting candidate aside and reassured him that, “You and I have a lot in common.”

But Obama was known to prefer Netanyahu’s rival in Israeli’s February 2009 election, Tzipi Livni, which took place just weeks after Obama was sworn in. Livni, leader of the center-left Kadima Party who welcomed efforts to reach a two-state solution with the Palestinians, would have been a like-minded partner for Obama.

Yet it was Netanyahu who unexpectedly emerged as prime minister, and the two leaders— and their senior aides and allies — locked into a instantly distrustful relationship. Things only got testier when Obama began pressuring Israel to halt its construction of settlements as a concession in peace talks with Palestinians.

Over the past six years, the bad chemistry has persisted, producing a long list of diplomatic insults, snubs and embarrassments. Here are the lowlights:

May 2009 — Netanyahu pays his first visit to the Obama White House. Obama officials are upset that, in remarks to the press, the Israeli refuses to endorse a two-state solution with the Palestinians.

June 2009 — Media speculation suggests that Obama might be plotting to force the collapse of Netanyahu’s government.

November 2009 — Open tension defines Netanyahu’s next visit to Washington. The White House doesn’t allow for any photo-ops or press availability, contrary to longstanding practice.

March 2010 — During a visit to Jerusalem by Vice President Joe Biden, Israel announces 1,600 new housing units for Jews in traditionally Arab East Jerusalem. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton places an angry 45-minute call to Netanyahu and tells CNN that the announcement was “insulting.”

March 2010 — On another White House visit, Netanyahu fails to commit to a settlement freeze. By many accounts, a frustrated Obama leaves a working meeting with his Israeli guest to dine with his family. “Let me know if there is anything new,” Obama reportedly tells Netanyahu. While the details of Obama’s exit are disputed, the Israeli media widely describes the episode as a humiliation.

May 2011 — Bibi lectures Obama in front of reporters during a press availability in the Oval Office, explaining recent Jewish history to a visibly irritated U.S. president. Diplomatic experts call it a startlingly aggressive move.

November 2011 — After a G20 summit in Cannes, Obama and then-French president Nicolas Sarkozy are caught discussing Netanyahu on an open mic. After Sarkozy calls Netanyahu a liar, Obama replies, “You’re fed up with him? I have to deal with him every day!”

Fall 2012 — Netanyahu appears in a campaign ad for Obama’s Republican opponent Mitt Romney. Netanyahu’s office says the prime minister was not consulted or asked for permission but does not call for the conservative group that sponsored the ad to stop running it. After Romney’s defeat, the New York Times reports that Netanyahu was “widely perceived in Israel and the United States as having supported the Republican challenger.”

September 2012 — In what Reuters calls “a highly unusual rebuff,” Obama snubs a request from Netanyahu for a meeting during the Israeli prime minister’s planned visit to New York for a United Nations meeting.

January 2014 — Frustrated with John Kerry’s Middle East peace diplomacy, which some Israeli officials felt asked too much of them, Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon reportedly says that the U.S. Secretary of State has a “messianic fervor” about the peace talks, adding: “The only thing that can ‘save us’ is for John Kerry to win a Nobel Prize and leave us in peace.”

July 2014 — Israeli officials complain anonymously in the Israeli media about Kerry, angry that he was working with Turkey and Qatar to broker a Gaza cease-fire on terms they opposed. “Very senior officials in Jerusalem described the proposal that Kerry put on the table as a ‘strategic terrorist attack,’” wrote a prominent Haaretz columnist. A State Department spokeswoman complains of a “misinformation campaign” against Kerry, adding pointedly: “It’s simply not the way partners and allies treat each other.”

August 2014 — After a Kerry-brokered cease fire collapsed, leaving three Israeli troops dead, a furious Netanyahu calls the U.S. ambassador to Israel and warns the Obama administration “not to second-guess me again.” Two weeks later, Obama and Netanyahu have what the Wall Street Journal, citing U.S. officials, describes as a “particularly combative phone call.”

October 2014 — On a visit to Washington, Ya’alon is rewarded with snubs from senior U.S. officials with whom he had reportedly sought meetings, including Joe Biden and national security advisor Susan Rice.

October 2014 — An unnamed “senior Obama administration official” tells The Atlantic, “The thing about Bibi is, he’s a chickenshit.” A second unnamed official describes the Israeli leader as a “coward” who would not strike Iran’s nuclear program.

January 2015 — Netanyahu accepts an extraordinary invitation from House Speaker John Boehner to address a joint session of the new Republican Congress. A White House spokesman calls the invitation, and the failure of Boehner or Netanyahu to notify the administration in advance, a “departure” from protocol. Many experts call it an unprecedented diplomatic insult. A week later, a top White House official criticizes Dermer, a close Netanyahu adviser who brokered the invitation, to the New York Times. “I have no regrets whatsoever,” Dermer tells the paper.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
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I have to say I can't think of a single leader on the world stage today that employs more restraint and is more calculated in their responses than Obama. That's kind of his signature governance strategy, which is a temperate response to adversaries that go out of their way to provoke him. It usually backfires on those doing the provoking.

So thats why he called ISIS a JV team.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,041
48,036
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Yeah...and Netanyahu is a "chicken shit" too!

The relationship started badly with Obama basically campaigning against Netanyahu in 2009 and it went downhill from there. Actually it's quite interesting to see how their strained relationship began and who was most culpable.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/barack-obama-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-114750.html

First, your link does not support your contention that Obama was 'basically campaigning against Netanyahu in 2009. This would be impressive timing considering that Obama had been in office for all of two weeks as of the 2009 Israeli elections and those elections predate all the events listed in your timeline.

Contrast that with Netanyahu appearing in campaign ads for Mitt Romney. As your link mentioned, the idea that Netanyahu would sit back and allow that to continue says a lot.

Where did you get the silly idea that Obama was campaigning against him for the two weeks after he became president in 2009? I must have missed that, haha.



Otherwise, your link really is illuminating, I agree. It's hard to come away from reading that and not be of the opinion that the weight of the strained relationship is overwhelmingly on the Israeli side.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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First, your link does not support your contention that Obama was 'basically campaigning against Netanyahu in 2009. This would be impressive timing considering that Obama had been in office for all of two weeks as of the 2009 Israeli elections and those elections predate all the events listed in your timeline.

Contrast that with Netanyahu appearing in campaign ads for Mitt Romney. As your link mentioned, the idea that Netanyahu would sit back and allow that to continue says a lot.

Where did you get the silly idea that Obama was campaigning against him for the two weeks after he became president in 2009? I must have missed that, haha.



Otherwise, your link really is illuminating, I agree. It's hard to come away from reading that and not be of the opinion that the weight of the strained relationship is overwhelmingly on the Israeli side.
It was well known that Obama wanted Livni to win in 2009. I intentionally used your phrase "basically campaigning"...as you seemed to have no problem using it so loosely. I didn't think you'd mind if I did the same.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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It was well known that Obama wanted Livni to win in 2009. I intentionally used your phrase "basically campaigning"...as you seemed to have no problem using it so loosely. I didn't think you'd mind if I did the same.

1. You're comparing actions of a candidate for office with the actions of a sitting government. That's beyond ridiculous.

2. Can you provide links to Obama's remarks or actions in 2009 along with specific examples of what you view as 'basically campaigning'?

I think giving tacit approval to your sitting government being used in campaign ads against another sitting government fits just fine. I'm interested to see what your standard is.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,770
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Whatever...but I do rather enjoy watching Obama's display of juvenility...it's so him.

I'm rather confused by this. It seems your allegiance is misplaced. Netanyahu in power makes our lives harder, our support for Israel and Israel's inability and lack of desire to negotiate a solution to their land dispute with Palestine which puts them in direct conflict with US stated policy is very much an issue for every US citizen and every US soldier. I for one and tired of all the blowback we receive for our unwavering support for that apartheid state.

Lest you forget, the US is the major power and Israel is a very very very junior partner in this relationship. They have to learn to understand that. And you're going to have to figure out where your allegiances lie. You seem to be letting your hate of Obama blind what should be your loyalty to the US.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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1. You're comparing actions of a candidate for office with the actions of a sitting government. That's beyond ridiculous.

2. Can you provide links to Obama's remarks or actions in 2009 along with specific examples of what you view as 'basically campaigning'?

I think giving tacit approval to your sitting government being used in campaign ads against another sitting government fits just fine. I'm interested to see what your standard is.
What about this? Does this quality as "basically campaigning" in your world?

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...e-alleged-dc-involvement-in-israeli-elections

US Senate to probe alleged DC involvement in Israeli elections

State Dept reportedly indirectly funded NGO which launched a public opinion campaign against Israeli PM


A US Senate investigatory committee – the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations – has launched a bipartisan probe into alleged meddling by the administration of President Barack Obama in the upcoming Israeli election.

According to an anonymous source close to the panel cited by Fox News, an Israeli public relations campaign, Victory 15, which while unaffiliated with any particular political party is calling upon the Israeli public to vote current Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu out of office, has received funding from a Washington-based group, OneVoice Movement, which has ties to the Democratic Party and which has received $350,000 in grants from the State Department.

The State Department says it had stopped funding OneVoice in November, ahead of the Israeli election.

Netanyahu, who has a tense, adversarial relationship with Obama, recently alluded to "foreign governments" involved in the campaign against him, calling it "unprecedented".

The OneVoice NGO defines itself as an "international grassroots movement that amplifies the voice of mainstream Israelis and Palestinians, empowering them to propel their elected representatives toward the two-state solution," a policy supported by the Obama administration. While Netanyahu and the Likud party did not formally reject the two-state solution, the ruling party is largely critical of it and of negotiations with the Palestinians.

Last month, the Likud sustained a blow when Justice Salim Joubran, chairman of the Central Election Committee, rejected its petition against the V15 organization, a grassroots campaign promoting voter participation in order to bring down Netanyahu.

The ruling comes after Likud conducted a strenuous campaign against V15 (Victory 2015), claiming the group was indirectly funding the Zionist Union and the left-wing Meretz party, thereby circumventing campaign finance laws.

Joubran required the petitioners to pay some $10,000 to the respondents named in its petition.
 
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emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
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Look here bro,if your neighbor throws a bomb into your house, kills all your family, you survive, what would you do? you stay put and just watch,or if you have a weapon at your disposal! won't you retaliate,would you care if there was any children in there? the world if full of naive people,there are people that just talk and talk crap morals till things happen to them, we call that cheap morals.

So are you saying that you agree with Palestinians lobbing missiles into Israel, because Israel fires missiles into Palestine, destroying their homes, killing their family and children and/or bulldozes their homes to make way for Israeli settlers?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,041
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What about this? Does this quality as "basically campaigning" in your world?

http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...e-alleged-dc-involvement-in-israeli-elections

No, Republican congressional investigations don't count as 'basically campaigning' to me. If I counted investigations as fact I would probably have to believe that Obama and Hillary Clinton parachuted into Benghazi and lit the place on fire themselves. I mean are you kidding?

If the Senate investigation turned up credible evidence that State Department funds were used then yes, but considering the regularity with which Netanyahu conjures up imagined dangers I would take anything he alleges with a huge grain of salt, as should anyone.

I can't help but notice that 2014 isn't 2009 though. Any luck on the 2009 campaign front, considering that was your original claim?
 

touchstone

Senior member
Feb 25, 2015
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Yeah...and Netanyahu is a "chicken shit" too!

The relationship started badly with Obama basically campaigning against Netanyahu in 2009 and it went downhill from there. Actually it's quite interesting to see how their strained relationship began and who was most culpable.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/barack-obama-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-114750.html

this is really encouraging! it is so relieving to know that even if partisan rubes like yourself are fooled by netanyahu and israel's whining and fearmongering, at least those in power in the obama administration know him for what he is, a coward and a chickenshit who wants to use american soldiers and spill american blood to fight his proxy war against iran

if there is one thing that obama always, always does right it's respond to threats and confrontation. i have no doubt that in the end netanyahu's victory in this election has done nothing more than sealed israel's fate as relegation to obscurity like north korea. i really hope he makes israel pay for its insolence, it is high time our nation stopped bowing to this acrimonious and manipulative little nation 12,000 miles away that has the exact opposite priorities and political structure as the the united states.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I'm rather confused by this. It seems your allegiance is misplaced. Netanyahu in power makes our lives harder, our support for Israel and Israel's inability and lack of desire to negotiate a solution to their land dispute with Palestine which puts them in direct conflict with US stated policy is very much an issue for every US citizen and every US soldier. I for one and tired of all the blowback we receive for our unwavering support for that apartheid state.

Lest you forget, the US is the major power and Israel is a very very very junior partner in this relationship. They have to learn to understand that. And you're going to have to figure out where your allegiances lie. You seem to be letting your hate of Obama blind what should be your loyalty to the US.
This is precisely what pissed off Obama in the first place...that Netanyahu would not publicly endorse a 2 state solution after their WH meeting in May, 2009. Wah!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,041
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This is precisely what pissed off Obama in the first place...that Netanyahu would not publicly endorse a 2 state solution after their WH meeting in May, 2009. Wah!

Wait, I thought he had already been campaigning against him for months at that point?

And yes, a failure to endorse the two state solution is a big problem, but that's an entirely different issue.

You appear to be letting your dislike of Obama make you support a leader who is pretty bad for US interests. (and Europe's interests, etc)
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,770
1,514
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Yeah...and Netanyahu is a "chicken shit" too!

The relationship started badly with Obama basically campaigning against Netanyahu in 2009 and it went downhill from there. Actually it's quite interesting to see how their strained relationship began and who was most culpable.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/barack-obama-benjamin-netanyahu-israel-114750.html

I find those type of articles interesting. Reading it one would think that we were talking about two countries on equal footing with equal power. Shouldn't Isarel be more concerned about insulting Obama, seeing all the welfare we give Isreal, than the other way around?
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
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I find those type of articles interesting. Reading it one would think that we were talking about two countries on equal footing with equal power. Shouldn't Isarel be more concerned about insulting Obama, seeing all the welfare we give Isreal, than the other way around?
Yet it is the US influence that is stopping Israel from solving the problem with teh Palestinians.

Palestinians feel that the US has Israel on a leash and will jerk it around whenever the Palestinians complain to much.

Cut Israel loose and watch the results the next time the Palestinians act up against Israel.

All water, power, supplies are completely dependent on Israel good will.
Jordan and Egypt to not provide logistics to the Palestinians.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Wait, I thought he had already been campaigning against him for months at that point?
Did you miss Post #132?

And yes, a failure to endorse the two state solution is a big problem, but that's an entirely different issue.
Netanyahu campaigned on this as a core issue of his platform and won. So it appears that most Israeli's also don't believe that it's a viable solution as well. This is a difference of opinion and it should never have been allowed to undermine the relationship between our countries. Adults try to find common ground and build relationships instead of resorting to public insults. That's what children do.

You appear to be letting your dislike of Obama make you support a leader who is pretty bad for US interests. (and Europe's interests, etc)
The EU may not like him either, but I will say one thing, they were at least adult enough to congratulate him. Obama is incredibly devisive and I have little respect for him...I doubt that history will be very kind to him as well.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,770
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Yet it is the US influence that is stopping Israel from solving the problem with teh Palestinians.

Palestinians feel that the US has Israel on a leash and will jerk it around whenever the Palestinians complain to much.

Cut Israel loose and watch the results the next time the Palestinians act up against Israel.

All water, power, supplies are completely dependent on Israel good will.
Jordan and Egypt to not provide logistics to the Palestinians.

Spell out what you are talking about without all the innuendo. What will happen next time?
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I find those type of articles interesting. Reading it one would think that we were talking about two countries on equal footing with equal power. Shouldn't Isarel be more concerned about insulting Obama, seeing all the welfare we give Isreal, than the other way around?
Your right...Obama should tell him what to do and he should just do it. Things would be so much easier that way. :rolleyes:
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,041
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Did you miss Post #132?

No, in fact that's what I'm referring to. You claim it was 'well known' and I asked you for literally any supporting evidence for that statement. Can you provide this?

Netanyahu campaigned on this as a core issue of his platform and won. So it appears that most Israeli's also don't believe that it's a viable solution as well. This is a difference of opinion and it should never have been allowed to undermine the relationship between our countries. Adults try to find common ground and build relationships instead of resorting to public insults. That's what children do.

Actually, polling consistently shows that the majority of Israelis support a two state solution. As we know quite well in the US, electoral systems don't always exactly replicate the opinion of the population on all issues.

As for the US, it's not a difference of opinion; it's one of the defining conflicts in a strategically vital region to the US. If Israel is acting in direct opposition to our interests in the region that needs to be accounted for in our relationship with them. The idea that they should be able to act contrary to our interests and not have it affect our relationship is incredibly naive.

Diplomacy is done in a lot of different ways. Netanyahu has in fact acted quite childishly towards the US on a number of occasions, I agree. One thing I'm super happy to see from Obama is that he's working to reassert that the US is the dominant partner in this alliance, which is good for all of us, wouldn't you agree?

The EU may not like him either, but I will say one thing, they were at least adult enough to congratulate him. Obama is incredibly devisive and I have little respect for him...I doubt that history will be very kind to him as well.

Netanyahu has not provoked Europe to nearly the same level that he has the US.

It's always interesting to watch conservatives try to convince themselves that the divisiveness in US politics is Obama's fault and not theirs as if somehow it's his fault Republicans have radicalized over the last several decades. This only works within the right wing media bubble, by the way. Have you looked at how the rest of the world views the US political situation? I imagine Obama will be looked on very positively for his handling of the financial crisis and for the ACA, somewhat less positively for the continued erosion of civil liberties. Overall he will probably be considered pretty good.

You're trying to console yourself that others and history will share your distaste for a politician you disagree with. I imagine you're going to be disappointed by history's view of him. Then again, if you only consume right wing media going forth I'm sure you'll find plenty of people who will echo what you want to hear.

All that aside, please don't forget to include your evidence for the 2009 campaign against Netanyahu.