Netanyahu is using Oslo Accords to annex more West Bank land

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kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Then how could they convey "title" to the Palestinians when they lost control to Israel? :confused:
That's not what happened.

They conquered that area the same as Israel did 2-0 years later. But nary a peep out of the world when that happened by Jordan :mad:.
There was more than peeps:

Jordan’s annexation was widely regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others, including Israel. The move formed part of Jordan’s "Greater Syria Plan" expansionist policy,[15] and in response, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Syria joined Egypt in demanding Jordan’s expulsion from the Arab League.

Perhaps you might consider taking the time to learn the actual history rather than getting confused and mad over misrepresentations of it.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Ek asks, " Then how could they ( Jordan ) convey "title" to the Palestinians when they lost control to Israel?"

And that short answer is that Jordan gave up control of the West Bank and Est Jerusalem, but Jordan sure did not cede it to Israel either. The same thing can be said about Egypt and Gaza.
 
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Aug 23, 2000
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It's funny how Lemon law and SandEagle keep acting like Israel is this group of thugs with nothing but war and destruction on their mind. If Israel really wanted the palastinians dead or gone, they'd do it. They've shown they have the ability to easily wipe out any opposing force.
They don't treat palestinian like they do because they are vengful or trying to inflict ill will on them. They have to do it because the palistinians won't behave themselves and stop acting like savages and bombing markets and civilians.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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That's not what happened.


There was more than peeps:



Perhaps you might consider taking the time to learn the actual history rather than getting confused and mad over misrepresentations of it.

The word annexation is the key.

Note what happened two years later - the issue was papered over.
On June 12, 1950, the Arab League declared the annexation was a temporary, practical measure and that Jordan was holding the territory as a &#8220;trustee&#8221; pending a future settlement

So the Arab league decided that it was now OK?

AS a trustee - Jordan failed.

What is then the difference between taking control of a territory and annexing it.

Both actions were condemned; but now are considered acceptable if it is an Arab country doing it.:mad:

Jordan had no legal authority to hand the country over to anyone.
No one was threatening to embargo Jordan for their actions or sanction them.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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It's funny how Lemon law and SandEagle keep acting like Israel is this group of thugs with nothing but war and destruction on their mind. If Israel really wanted the palastinians dead or gone, they'd do it. They've shown they have the ability to easily wipe out any opposing force.
They don't treat palestinian like they do because they are vengful or trying to inflict ill will on them. They have to do it because the palistinians won't behave themselves and stop acting like savages and bombing markets and civilians.
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I have a little different take on it than you Jeffrey. Israel treat Palestinians like dirt, because according to Israel, Palestinians have no human rights in what amounts to the land of their birth.

Each year hundreds of Palestinian are killed or expelled from their homes, not because they did anything wrong, but because Israel was engaging in orgies of violence or land thefts in the hopes of getting someone who was engaging in terrorism or just an excuse to steal more land.

In case you do not know Jeffrey, that is internationally known as a international war crime called collective punishment. Not to mention the fact Israel is still facing other international war crimes charges over cast lead.

Its why, as n American, I can't support the actions of the current Israeli government. In the USA we do not believe in hereditary guilt.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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How long does a nation have to exist and control an area of land before it becomes the defacto legal controller of an area of land?

Serious question.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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Ask China and Russia.

If you are a little guy - you do not have control ever if someone complains.
If you are a big boy - everyone ignores
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Ask China and Russia.

If you are a little guy - you do not have control ever if someone complains.
If you are a big boy - everyone ignores

Or ask the US - we took our entire nation from someone else...mostly by force.

What you said how I see it, but I was curious if there is established law or rules on this. It basically looks like the world still uses the "might makes right" rule, which has been around forever.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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If Israel really wanted the palastinians dead or gone, they'd do it.
What the Israeli establishment really wants is exactly what they've been taking, the land Palestinians are on, exactly as Netanyahu explained to settlers when didn't know the camera was recording, and as Ben Grunion explained in a letter to his son over a decade before Israel existed.

They've shown they have the ability to easily wipe out any opposing force.
While they certainly have the might to do that by killing and/or deporting all the Palestinians as you propose, they have enough trouble overcoming the bad publicity they draw from those they have killed and/or deported already.

So the Arab league decided that it was now OK?
No, they decided it was then OK as "temporary, practical measure" towards future settlement, much like the PLO decided the division of land in the Oslo Accords was OK as a temporary, practical measure towards the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.

What is then the difference between taking control of a territory and annexing it.
Hire a tutor, and look into the difference between legal and illegal methods for both while you're at it.

How long does a nation have to exist and control an area of land before it becomes the defacto legal controller of an area of land?
"De facto legal" is an oxymoron, and de jure control of an area isn't a simple matter of "how long", much like squatting under a bridge doesn't make it one's own, no matter how long you continue to do it.

It basically looks like the world still uses the "might makes right" rule, which has been around forever.
No, right of conquest got phased out a while back, though some still attempt to cling to it.
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Or ask the US - we took our entire nation from someone else...mostly by force.

What you said how I see it, but I was curious if there is established law or rules on this. It basically looks like the world still uses the "might makes right" rule, which has been around forever.

LL likes to use the UN as the dividing line of land by conquest.
Yet, convienently ignoring Russia and China territory annexations since then.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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As long as an Arab nation is in control (by any means) of the West Bank and Gaza, it is Ok.
Should Israel duplicate the same activities; it is considered wrong.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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LL likes to use the UN as the dividing line of land by conquest.
Yet, convienently ignoring Russia and China territory annexations since then.
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As EK conveniently forgets two facts. (1) The Russian annexation of countries were done right after WW2 and before the formation of the UN. (2) In the 1990 breakup of the Soviet Union, the former USSR lost the bulk of the countries it annexed.

As for China, its land annexation has been fairly minor, mainly in Tibet. Nor do I favor that annexation either. As for Taiwan, it was always a part of China but still is separate. As China also waited until the British 99 year lease expired. As we also have to realize that the USA may play football, but China plays Go, as regional influence is as good as total control.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Its still worth quoting the KyleBisme link of, "What the Israeli establishment really wants is exactly what they've been taking, the land Palestinians are on, exactly as Netanyahu explained to settlers when didn't know the camera was recording, and as Ben Grunion explained in a letter to his son over a decade before Israel existed."

Not only did the Ben Grunion letter make him a cynical serial liar, but he still was one of the most influential founder of Israel.

Yet I find it strange that his as of yet future vision of Israel is similar to my vision of a future Arab Israeli peace.

As the missing factor is and remains, a total lack of an Israeli effort to help its Arab Neighbors in any way. As instead, the present Israeli government seemingly delights in alienating all its Arab Neighbors and building anti-Israeli resentments at every opportunity.

As that end Ben Grunion vision was lost by Israel itself.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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No, they decided it was then OK as "temporary, practical measure" towards future settlement, much like the PLO decided the division of land in the Oslo Accords was OK as a temporary, practical measure towards the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. -- always twisting the truth...rofl


Hire a tutor, and look into the difference between legal and illegal methods for both while you're at it.-- thats an easy way to say you don`t know.....


"De facto legal" is an oxymoron, and de jure control of an area isn't a simple matter of "how long", much like squatting under a bridge doesn't make it one's own, no matter how long you continue to do it. -- oxymoron...rofl@you for again not having a clue...

No, right of conquest got phased out a while back, though some still attempt to cling to it.-- hahaha it did not get phased back...you let there be another world war and you will see how it got phased back!! Phased back is what people say who believe there are no consequences to starting a war and losing the same war they start....hahaaa


rofl..hahaaaaa
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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When Saudi Arabia gives half of Mecca to the Jews and the Catholic Church gives half of the Vatican to teh Wiccans, only then will Israel give half of Jerusalem to the Muslims.

Yes, we all agree it is ludicrous to expect the Muslims to give up any of their most holy city and ludicrous to expect the Cathlics to give up any of their most holy city. Yet amazingly people lose the ability to think rationally and suddenly think the Jews should give up a lot of their most holy city.

I know...it is because others say it is holy too...not good enough. When the Temple is rebuilt, God will literally put part of Himself in the Temple, making it the most holy city on the planet according to Judaism.

To expect the Jews to give up any of Jerusalem is the same as expecting the Muslims and the Catholics to give up parts of their most holy cities. Is never going to happen.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Earth to Cybrsage, maybe in the 12'th century and during the Christian crusades, Christian tried to reclaim the entire city of Jerusalem. But in the last 400 years, Christians over reached and gave up. But in 1948, the UN allowed the State of Israel to have dominion of part but not all of the the city of Jerusalem. And after the 1967 &73 wars Israel tries to grub all of Jerusalem.

Which IMHO is a total wrong song man, as the city of Jerusalem has become holy to the religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam that collectively amount to over 50% of all humanity.

As Jerusalem in the 4000 year fast shuffle has become a bloody football as at various times, one religion or the other has tried to pig Jerusalem all for itself. Which has never worked in the history of the planet for a time period of over 200 years.

Its why I ask, why can't the 3 major religions fairly share the city of Jerusalem insteal?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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Earth to Cybrsage, maybe in the 12'th century and during the Christian crusades, Christian tried to reclaim the entire city of Jerusalem. But in the last 400 years, Christians over reached and gave up. But in 1948, the UN allowed the State of Israel to have dominion of part but not all of the the city of Jerusalem. And after the 1967 &73 wars Israel tries to grub all of Jerusalem.

Which IMHO is a total wrong song man, as the city of Jerusalem has become holy to the religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam that collectively amount to over 50% of all humanity.

As Jerusalem in the 4000 year fast shuffle has become a bloody football as at various times, one religion or the other has tried to pig Jerusalem all for itself. Which has never worked in the history of the planet for a time period of over 200 years.

Its why I ask, why can't the 3 major religions fairly share the city of Jerusalem insteal?

The Muslims do not like sharing in that part of the world. Jews were not allowed in Jerusalem when they had it under Jordan control.

Right now all three religions have access to the city.

For curiosity, when did the Jews control/restrict access?
I know of the crusades and back/forth control during those times
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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What obligation does Israel have to help her Arab neighbours. One is still at war with her, supporting groups that continue to attack Israel. Another has one of those groups embedded in the government. A third allows attacks on Israel from thier territory but complains if Israel responds to those attacks. They allow contriband to be smuggled through their borders.

Jordan is the only one that at present is worth any effort to Israel.

They have never shown any interest in Israel's wellfare except in planning slice and dice operation.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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The Muslims do not like sharing in that part of the world. Jews were not allowed in Jerusalem when they had it under Jordan control.

Right now all three religions have access to the city.

For curiosity, when did the Jews control/restrict access?
I know of the crusades and back/forth control during those times
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A nice contention EK, but totally false historically. During the crusades, Christians kicked out any Jews and Muslims totally, any Jewish control of Jerusalem in the past 1800 years is only recent and the Israeli record of sharing with Muslims is rather stinking and inadequate, not only in Jerusalem itself but also in Palestinian controlled areas. And point granted EK, at various times, when Muslim had control of Jerusalem, they totally disenfranchised both Jews and Christians. But still. in the larger 1800 prior history of Jerusalem, it was only some Muslim rulers who who made efforts to share Jerusalem with the all three religions.

But once again EK, you totally miss the point, as you are bogged down in the present trying to defend present stinking Israeli behavior, and miss the fact that I am talking about a better future.

When Jews, Muslims, and Christians can all equally share the city of David regardless of what entity controls "Israel" itself.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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De facto legal" is an oxymoron, and de jure control of an area isn't a simple matter of "how long", much like squatting under a bridge doesn't make it one's own, no matter how long you continue to do it.

No, right of conquest got phased out a while back, though some still attempt to cling to it.

Actually, the right of conquest is alive and well. All you need to do is wither be the stronger nation or have the backing of the strongest nations. The US, EU, Russia, and China all agree Israel has the right to exist. Also, none of them feel inclined to use their military forces to say Israel cannot keep the lands it won in war.

I know you want to pretend humanity has become enlightened or something, but it has not. We are the same as we have always been. ..we just have better weapons now.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Its why I ask, why can't the 3 major religions fairly share the city of Jerusalem insteal?

The the same reason the 3 major religions cannot fairly share the Vatican or Mecca. No religion will ever willingly give control of its most holy city to another religion. Once you accept that truism, you will understand.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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The the same reason the 3 major religions cannot fairly share the Vatican or Mecca. No religion will ever willingly give control of its most holy city to another religion. Once you accept that truism, you will understand.
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What a stupid argument cybrsage, Mecca is in no way holy to Jews or Christians, and the Vadican is in no way holy to Jews or Muslims.

But when Jerusalem is extremely holy to Jews, Christians and Muslims, you not only presented a totally false equivalence argument, you have also offended the emotions of billions of people one way or the other.

On the former point Cybrsage you are merely ignorant and stupid, but its that latter point that makes the issue explosive,
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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wrong...implied is totally different from coming out and saying Israel has a right to exist!!! Sorry!! Hamas conceded nothing...had they made this concession,Hamas would have dropped their call for the destruction of Israel from their manifesto-- which they never have....

How it looks when JediYoda enters a thread about Israel

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