NeoCons and Pat Buchanan

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
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Ever since a bunch of big government liberals switched over to the Republican Party in the 1960s because they hated the Democrat's personal freedom and hippie movements, they have been a thorn in the side of the conservative mainstream... growing more and more belligerent and unconservative, and the poster-child of this, is the past Republican red-headed stepchild himself: Pat Buchanan.

What many people don't understand is the so-called neocons are NOT a wing of the conservatives- they are the movement and always have been. The pissy conservatives who hate the neocons -like Buchanan- were always there, and there's always been a healthy debate within the Right... there are many types. But since 9/11, the Liberals and Big Media have jumped on this imaginary conservative crisis in attempts to build it up, exagerate it, and portray the Right as being deeply divided and Bush as someone who has lost his party. The facts speak otherwise.

We know that Bush has shored up support within his base very well... better than Kerry has with his base in fact. Considering there are more registered Democrats in the US, it's revealing that Bush is consistently polling even or slightly ahead... which means, who's supporting him? But I thought all those true conservatives hated him? Wrong... just a few here and there don't support him, just like what happens in every election. So even though we are barraged by anti-Bushers with streams of supposed conservatives and Republicans who disagree with the Bushwacker's policies, the fact that the race it very tight -just like it was in 2000, even though these people say he's lost SOO much support- says otherwise. Besides, it's common knowledge that the DNC has openly and actively engaged in this 'divide and conquer' strategy to gain political ground.

Personally, I am happy with those Buchanan type isolationist-Rights bitching about the way the conservative movement is today, and fanticizing about their "New Nationalism" dreams. Let them branch off and be exposed for what they are. Their interpretation of conservative/Republican history is ignorant, as are their prescriptions for the future. Their 'live and let live' foreign policy is a joke and not a foreign policy at all... it's a lack of one. In a perfect world that may look appealing, but reality is quite different. They can stick their head in a hole, but there's a world out there and it's impact on us is undeniable, huge, and often deadly.

Look at the man who speaks for this group. Buchanan himself effectively left the Repubs in 1999, a year before the Evil Bush and 2 years before 9/11 and our new-found "assertiveness". Even before that he was on the outs... talk of his extreme weirdness and speculation of him bolting go back to 1991. And his ideas represent all too much how these types of people think. This is the guy who allied himself with fringe groups on the left and right, socialists, white-supremacists, anti-Semites, and whose statements have been strongly anti-gay, sexist, Hitler-praising, and some good Holocaust Revisionism for good measure. This is the guy who thinks we could have stayed out of WWII. And he's as hypocritical as the next politician, demonizing corporations as he earns huge bucks from his multi-million dollar stock portfolio.

Pat, and all the other neo-nationalists: We've been waving bye to ya for years now... don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. (note: this is not to mean some people don't have genuine and reasonable differences within the Right... but this little class of quasi-racist, hyper-nationalistic kooks don't fit that bill)
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Originally posted by: cwjerome
Ever since a bunch of big government liberals switched over to the Republican Party in the 1960s because they hated the Democrat's personal freedom and hippie movements . . .
Name one, just one.



 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
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Rumor has it that Buchanan is going to endorse Bush soon.:p

Just thought I'd toss that into the equation. I don't really disagree with your take cwjerome, but I think there is room for debate within the party. Buchanan represents this. I don't agree with his isolationism and some other things but on other things(Domestic) he does come back from the fringe a tad.
If the left will take kucinich and dean's endorsement - I suppose we Republicans can take Buchanan's(while still disagreeing on some things).

CsG
 

Kerouactivist

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Jul 12, 2001
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Thomas Jefferson:
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong"
 

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
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President Bush is a Uniter not a Divider.

He has united the World against us.

He has united the Democrats against him.
 

cwjerome

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Sep 30, 2004
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My grandfather was one who was a strong defense, very traditional values, government-empowering LIBERAL. There actually used to be those kinds of liberals. As the 60s rolled around he was revolted at the counter-culture and anti-war movement... he switched for his values, but kept his paternalistic government attitude.... as did many others, especially older men who were fairly prejudiced and couldn't deal with a changing Democratic Party. I'm not sure about Pat Buchanan, but his father was a staunch anti-communist oriented Democrat who idolized Joseph McCarthy.

CsG, I sincerely hope not :( There's always room for debate, sure... but there's no good in embracing him and his nutty ideas. He's just an idiot. Maybe he's suffering from Post Presidential Loser Traumatic Stress Disorder (like Al Gore).
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Rumor has it that Buchanan is going to endorse Bush soon.:p

Just thought I'd toss that into the equation. I don't really disagree with your take cwjerome, but I think there is room for debate within the party. Buchanan represents this. I don't agree with his isolationism and some other things but on other things(Domestic) he does come back from the fringe a tad.
If the left will take kucinich and dean's endorsement - I suppose we Republicans can take Buchanan's(while still disagreeing on some things).

CsG

You are correct sir.

I should go dig up some of the liberal quotes from old Patrick bashing Bush threads :)
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Pat's only voting Bush because he knows what it means for SC. We need to ban abortion.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Kerry just seems like a punk to anyone with a brain. He's playing both sides of the iraq issue still. wrong war wrong time etc.. but is calling for even more draconican measures and more troops. Seems if somethings, if you belive that, somethings wrong you stop doing it?
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Rumor has it that Buchanan is going to endorse Bush soon.:p

Just thought I'd toss that into the equation. I don't really disagree with your take cwjerome, but I think there is room for debate within the party. Buchanan represents this. I don't agree with his isolationism and some other things but on other things(Domestic) he does come back from the fringe a tad.
If the left will take kucinich and dean's endorsement - I suppose we Republicans can take Buchanan's(while still disagreeing on some things).

CsG

You are correct sir.

I should go dig up some of the liberal quotes from old Patrick bashing Bush threads :)

Yeah, I changed my sig this morning after reading that;) I wanted to be cool and have a Buchanan quote in my sig too - so I did:D

CsG
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
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Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Ever since a bunch of big government liberals switched over to the Republican Party in the 1960s because they hated the Democrat's personal freedom and hippie movements . . .
Name one, just one.

Irving Kristol.

This is actually the standard historical interpretation of the right. Not that you idiots would know.
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
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Pat Buchanan (for all his faults) is a far better Republican than Bush could ever hope to be.
 

cwjerome

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Sep 30, 2004
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Buchanan isn't even a Republican, and besides, I don't care who's a better Republican... I care about whose ideas are better.
 

GrGr

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Sep 25, 2003
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Yankees are blind to blundering Bush
By Eric Margolis -- Contributing Foreign Editor
link


Why do so many Americans still support George W. Bush after all those damning revelations about Iraq? That's the question I'm invariably asked when abroad.

Former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan, in his superb, must-read new book, Where the Right Went Wrong, provides some answers.

"In 2003," he writes, "the U.S. invaded a country that did not threaten us, had not attacked us and did not want war with us, to disarm it of weapons we have since discovered it did not have."

White House assurances that U.S. troops would be greeted in Iraq with flowers were as laughable as its pledges Mideast peace and democracy would ensue.

Chief U.S. arms inspector Charles Duelfer's recent, 960-page report contradicted almost every Bush administration prewar claim about Iraq, which were used to justify an illegal war that has killed 20,000 Iraqis and more than 1,000 Americans, caused 14,000 U.S. casualties and will soon have cost $200 billion US -- when Washington can't even supply flu vaccine.

No administration official has accepted blame for this needless conflict, lying to Congress and the public, blundering into a no-win war, condoning torture, and provoking worldwide disgust at the once admired United States.

Either the self-proclaimed "war president" and his men committed the worst set of blunders overseas since Vietnam, or they lied the nation into an imperial war to grab oil and boost Israel's fortunes.

Republicans don't care. Amazingly, a recent CNN/USA Today poll showed 62% of Republicans still believe Iraq was behind 9/11. This is after a flood of contrary evidence and Duelfer's report.

How can Republicans remain so blinkered? Part of the fault lies with the sycophantic national media, which collaborated with the Bush administration in whipping up war fever. The media still are not telling people the truth about Iraq, Afghanistan, or the so-called war on terrorism.

The media utterly failed to remind Americans that Bush, who loves to play war leader, actually claimed Iraqi drone aircraft were poised to fly off ships in the North Atlantic and bombard America with germs. Bush should have been laughed out of office for believing and promoting this comic-book nonsense.

Many Republicans simply don't see what the rest of the world does. So what if Iraq was no threat? Don't bother these golf club Rambos with details. They're delighted to see the U.S. pounding Arabs in revenge for 9/11.

Bush's core Republican support lies in the suburbs and Bible-belt rural areas, where many people rely on TV sound bites for their world view, and have little understanding of history, geography or foreign affairs. This is the new "dumbed-down Republicans Party," fertile ground for nationalist hysteria, religious extremism, and anti-foreign xenophobia.


Surplus-turned-deficit

Buchanan identifies the real secret of the Republican Party's current success: "Cut taxes and don't let the Democrats outspend us."

No matter that Bush's policies have created millions of jobs in China instead of the U.S., or that he turned a $236-billion US surplus into a $521-billion deficit. His tax cuts and spending win elections.

As the real president, v-p Dick Cheney, observed to a horrified U.S. Treasurer Paul O'Neill, "deficits don't matter." This kind of liberal-left Democrat economic voodoo used to be anathema to Republicans.


Today, there's no real conservative party left in Washington, says Buchanan. Only in tax-cutting do Republicans still hew to their principles. Otherwise, they are just like the wildest-spending liberal Democrats.

"Historically, Republicans have been the party of conservative virtues -- balanced budgets, healthy skepticism towards foreign wars, fierce resistance to the growth of government power.

"No more," Buchanan says. "To win and hold office, many have sold their souls to the very devil they were baptized to do battle with."

As for Bush's vow to wage unceasing war on America's enemies around the globe, Buchanan quotes President James Madison: "Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it compromises and develops the germ of every other. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."

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