Negative liberty helps the poor more than positive liberty

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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I'm really fed up with Positive liberty, and I think it needs be abolished, at least at the Federal level.

There is such thing as welfare capitalism (Henry Ford, Dr. Paul, Whole Foods, and Microsoft, to a lesser extent, provide/d welfare capitalism), and really, under a system where the government grants positive rights, there will always be positive rights granted to corporatists to offset the positive rights given to socialists.

I mean, really, the government is the reason health care continues to rise in cost (patent laws are one of many examples, as well as lobbying by corporatists such as the AMA which sets expensive unnecessary guidelines), and if the government granted tax breaks for having health care and tax breaks for donating health care funds to the poor, then you wouldn't need Medicare/caid and positive rights in terms of health care.

If it weren't for positive rights, then the bankers wouldn't be so rich and money wouldn't devalue--the banksters wouldn't have a lender of last resort chartered by the government.

People need to learn that positive rights work both ways, often in favor of corporatists and the banks, and then socialist shit like compulsory education sure doesn't help.

Some local building and electrical codes are okay, maybe local education (but not compulsory), but you don't need the damn federal goverment to step in every inch of the way.

Does anyone here understand my beef with positive rights and that they can work both ways?

Sadly, I don't think many people do--the Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn't include any negative rights. They're all positive rights. Is that the direction we should expect to go in?

A world without negative rights is only better than hell because it's not as hot.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,630
6,721
126
Positive liberty, welfare capitalism, positive rights, corporatist, socialists, these words mean nothing to me. They sound like something you say after you have been brainwashed somewhere. So no, I don't understand your beef with positive rights and that they can work both ways? You are talking to your head when you say you wanted to talk to me.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Positive liberty, welfare capitalism, positive rights, corporatist, socialists, these words mean nothing to me. They sound like something you say after you have been brainwashed somewhere. So no, I don't understand your beef with positive rights and that they can work both ways? You are talking to your head when you say you wanted to talk to me.

I think what he's trying to say, Moonbeam, is that one problem with the welfare state is the rich end up getting more welfare than the poor.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
Positive liberty, welfare capitalism, positive rights, corporatist, socialists, these words mean nothing to me. They sound like something you say after you have been brainwashed somewhere.

Heh, one of those rare moments of lucidity by Moonie. ^_^
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
I'm really fed up with Positive liberty, and I think it needs be abolished, at least at the Federal level.

There is such thing as welfare capitalism (Henry Ford, Dr. Paul, Whole Foods, and Microsoft, to a lesser extent, provide/d welfare capitalism), and really, under a system where the government grants positive rights, there will always be positive rights granted to corporatists to offset the positive rights given to socialists.

I mean, really, the government is the reason health care continues to rise in cost (patent laws are one of many examples, as well as lobbying by corporatists such as the AMA which sets expensive unnecessary guidelines), and if the government granted tax breaks for having health care and tax breaks for donating health care funds to the poor, then you wouldn't need Medicare/caid and positive rights in terms of health care.

If it weren't for positive rights, then the bankers wouldn't be so rich and money wouldn't devalue--the banksters wouldn't have a lender of last resort chartered by the government.

People need to learn that positive rights work both ways, often in favor of corporatists and the banks, and then socialist shit like compulsory education sure doesn't help.

Some local building and electrical codes are okay, maybe local education (but not compulsory), but you don't need the damn federal goverment to step in every inch of the way.

Does anyone here understand my beef with positive rights and that they can work both ways?

Sadly, I don't think many people do--the Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn't include any negative rights. They're all positive rights. Is that the direction we should expect to go in?

A world without negative rights is only better than hell because it's not as hot.

Except, we don't want poor. We want medium and rich.

Your way *might* help the small amount of poor, the existing way helps to enrich the rest of us so we don't become poor.

Having a right to NOT go to School as a child might be beneficial in the short term, since the children can become laborers, but in the long term, you are just a worth-less-than-educated laborer.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
What should I post about though?

How about you make a post describing the difference between Anarchism, a fringe political movement from the late 19th century, and hedonism, the philosophy which teenagers sometimes confuse with Anarchy because they want to be able to use illicit drugs and engage in other irresponsible behavior without consequences.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
How about you make a post describing the difference between Anarchism, a fringe political movement from the late 19th century, and hedonism, the philosophy which teenagers sometimes confuse with Anarchy because they want to be able to use illicit drugs and engage in other irresponsible behavior without consequences.

What kind of "irresponsible behavior"? Casual sex? I'm a corporate professional and almost 30 years old (i.e. the most boring type of person on the planet) and I wish I could use more drugs and have more casual sex. That's not irresponsible behavior, that's just a good time.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
What kind of "irresponsible behavior"? Casual sex? I'm a corporate professional and almost 30 years old (i.e. the most boring type of person on the planet) and I wish I could use more drugs and have more casual sex. That's not irresponsible behavior, that's just a good time.

Yeah but you have a job and you take responsibility for your actions. So it's not the same thing really.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
2,622
136
YAA420T.

Just stop!

Bite your lip. His nonsensical but pompously worded threads are the best amusement around here since AzN is on hiatus (voluntarily or not). The boy's got real future in bureaucracy somewhere the way he manipulates language so as to totally obscure whatever point de minute he is trying to make. Positive liberty, negative liberty-that's classic.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
126
Yeah but you have a job and you take responsibility for your actions. So it's not the same thing really.

Not sure I agree with you on that, but I will cede the point as this thread is about pancakes and I do not want it further derailed. What say you on the matter? Do you prefer pancakes to waffles or are you wrong?

Waffles * Ice cream> Pancakes/(syrup^butter)

dy/dx Pancakes^(syrup+butter) = :)
 

jacc1234

Senior member
Sep 3, 2005
392
0
0
Crepes > (Waffles + Pancakes)

What a typical response for a partisan hack like yourself. Its so blatantly obvious that everything you do is controlled by your racist views! Everyone with half a brain sees right through your bullshit crepe strawman arguments. I guess I shouldn't expect anything different out of you though.
 

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
1,389
1
81
Cr&