Need your input on building a fast productivity-only PC (no gaming)

[Bobsy]

Hello,

I considered myself a power-user, but after reading Anantech's articles for a few months now, I realize I know little about computer hardware. This is why I need your help for this project.

Here is some background info:

1. My dad needs a new PC to do web browsing, e-mail, viewing photos, MS Word... all on Windows 7. I hope this is not too boring for you. I would like to build a PC that is very responsive for these everyday tasks.
2. This will be the first time I build a PC, and I have never used Windows 7 so I am not quite sure how much horsepower I need for it to run smoothly.
3. My dad will spend whatever it takes to get a great PC. I am quite sure 600$ is a good target for a decent box. I already have a 22" monitor, keyboard and mouse. Windows 7 license is extra.
4. I will buy parts in Canada, but if it is worth it I could purchase from online vendors in the US.
5. I used to be an Intel fan, but I would not be surprised that AMD offers the best value for what I am looking for. I also don't mind integrated graphics, as long as I can be reassured that they will run Windows 7 smoothly.
6. I have no parts except for peripherals.
7. I have read of lot of threads, but it seems most people are looking at OC and gaming.
8. I would rather have a simple, quieter system than a OC'd system. So no overclocking... until I find a "OC for Dummies" somewhere.
9. As mentioned before, no gaming.
10. Timing: I would like to build it now... but the big question I have is: should I wait for the Intel i3?

To launch the discussion and have something to talk about, I've got Anand's AMD Budget System from a System Guide from last spring. It's probably out of date, which is another reason I need your help.

Here we go:

• CPU: Phenom II X3 710
• Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA770-UD3
  • Since the PC won't be doing anything fancy, I figure I should buy the cheapest motherboard that will accept the CPU. Am I wrong? And what about one of those boards with the 790GX (integrated graphics - correct me if I am lost), would it run Win7 correctly? (I am really careful when it comes to integrated graphics since I had bad experiences with older Dell products.)
• GPU (assuming I go with discrete graphics): Gigabyte ATI Radeon HD 4670 512 MB DDR3
  • Is there better value for money here? (That's essentially the question I have for all parts of this system.)
• RAM: OCZ OCZ2P10664GK PC2-8500 DDR2 2x2GB 1066MHz 5-5-5-18
  • I understand absolutely nothing about the timing stuff. I want 4 GB for sure. But this part number, which I took from Anandtech's system guide, is now super-expensive compared to the price 9 months ago. Surely there must be a more optimal choice?
• Case: Cooler Master Elite RC-330
  • I guess this is a matter of personal preference...
• PSU: Cooler Master Extreme Power+ 460W
  • As long I as get at least 400W, I should be fine, right?
• Hard Drive: WD 500 GB Caviar Green.
• Optical Drive: OEM LG DVD Burner
• Cooling: fan that comes with the CPU.

Thank you very much in advance guys, I will really appreciate comments from experienced people. Cheers.

Note: My dad is running the earliest Celeron with 256 MB RAM... so this is a much needed upgrade.

 

[RebateMonger]

I don't have a specific motherboard for you, but I can tell you I've put together a couple of systems with Intel E5200 or E6300 processors on micro-ATX motherboards with integrated Intel graphics (like the 4500 HD) that would do what you want just fine.

Well, here's one of my motherboards:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128396

I have two of these running Win7 RC1. One has built-in HDMI and is running a 32-inch LCD TV. Motherboards like this are $65 to $100 and the CPUs are maybe $75. 2 GB of DDR2 memory would be fine if you want to hold the cost down with today's sky-high (compared to a year ago) memory prices. I always use standard 1.8 V memory, normally Crucial or Kingston, and never overclock anything.

For a system like that, very little power is needed, but it's best to get a good-quality power supply. A 400 W supply is plenty. Case, hard drive, and DVD are up to you.

Note: Some folks report problems running 1080i HDTV with the onboard video on the board I mentioned. I have no intention of ever running BluRay, so it makes no difference to me. It might for you, although you didn't mention home theater stuff in your post.

 

[alyarb]

i think you're on the right track with the X3, but i would just get the Athlon II and not the Phenom II.

if there is no gaming going on, there is no reason for a radeon 4670. Simply get a motherboard with decent onboard video and digital I/O like DVI and/or HDMI. If you go with a triple-core AMD processor, then 760G, 780G, or 785G chipsets would be best for you. For instance, this combo is a great value and it eliminates the discrete graphics card from your budget.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.315894

if you go with intel, get a G45 motherboard.

 

[Zap]

I would like to build a PC that is very responsive for these everyday tasks.

Two thoughts. First, use an SSD. Second, use a CPU with an IMC (integrated memory controller).

This will be the first time I build a PC

Buy him a Dell?

As long as you understand all of the caveats of building it yourself, you will potentially find building a computer to be fun, educational and rewarding.

The potential caveats are:

Warranty - A pre-built system will have one point of contact for the warranty, and that is the manufacturer. A home-built system will be warranted by you the builder. The parts may have individual warranty, but most resellers won't help you past the 30-day return period so you'll have to deal with individual manufacturers for each part. Some manufacturers are really good at warranty support, some are not so good.

Problems - Hanging out in forums I often see posts that start like this, "I just put together my first system and I don't get a picture on the monitor. Plz help! I'm about to cry!" It is a fact that most computer parts have a 2-5% initial defect rate. What I'm getting at is that you will potentially see a dead part, so you better be prepared to diagnose and RMA. Also, even though there are standards, there are way too many incompatibilities. RAM that won't run on certain motherboards. Motherboards that need BIOS updates before it will boot your CPU. Heck, even power supplies that won't turn on when hooked up to certain motherboards!

Expectations - Some people really expect a custom built computer to magically be better than a store/pre-built computer. It matters more for gamers because component choice differs from the mass market, but otherwise it really doesn't matter much. A system with X CPU and Y RAM will pretty much work just like any other system with a similar level of CPU and RAM.

Timing: I would like to build it now... but the big question I have is: should I wait for the Intel i3?

If you wish. Personally for this level of a build I don't think it offers enough over a comparable AMD setup.

Note: My dad is running the earliest Celeron with 256 MB RAM... so this is a much needed upgrade.

Wow, yes it is! Heck, you can buy an off-the-shelf $300 special and it will be a huge upgrade.

I would rather have a simple, quieter system
...
As mentioned before, no gaming.

Alright, no gaming and quiet... here are some suggestions with rough USD pricing and reasoning:

CPU - a retail boxed Athlon II x2 socket AM3 $70
IMC (integrated memory controller) for that "snappy" feeling. Dual cores are enough and Athlon II are fairly energy efficient so low power draw/low heat output. Retail boxed so you have a fan/heatsink to use, which should be fairly quiet after enabling "smart fan" in the motherboard BIOS.

motherboard - socket AM3 AMD 785 chipset with DVI/HDMI output, maybe with Sideport video memory too $90
Latest IGP chipset for AM3 chips with onboard video that can handle Windows 7 Aero just fine. Sideport memory means the IGP doesn't even have to hit main memory. This effectively makes the onboard memory just like a lower end PCIe card.

RAM - cheapest 1.5v 4GB DDR3 kit $90
DDR2 isn't much cheaper (maybe 5%) so may as well go for the latest stuff. RAM rated for 1.5v means it isn't "factory overclocked" and will likely have the best compatibility with motherboards.

video - use the onboard! $0
Seriously! Zero need for anything better based on what you describe it will be used for.

primary HDD - 30/32/40GB SSD (use only Intel or Indilinx controller units - do some research) $130
This will probably do more for making the system feel quick and responsive than anything else you can do. A $100 CPU with an SSD will feel as quick or quicker than a $500 CPU with a normal hard drive when doing ordinary stuff around Windows.

secondary HDD - don't know how much storage space your dad needs $0
You mentioned a hard drive (slow "Green" model) but didn't say if your dad needs the capacity or if you picked it based on the old Anandtech recommendations.

optical drive - cheapest Samsung or LG $30
Optical drives are commodities.

case - Antec NSK3480 (shop around, Newegg.ca will probably not have the best pricing) $90
This case looks decent without being too obnoxious and comes with a good power supply (unlike most cases that come with power supplies). It also will result in a really quiet system because the included power supply is quiet, the included 120mm fan has L/M/H speed settings and the hard drive mounts (in case you get a secondary storage drive) are soft for vibration damping. The metal is also pretty thick, which helps quiet things down. It is also fairly compact.

power supply - use the Earthwatts 380W PSU that comes with the case $0
These power supplies are sold separately for around $50 and are known to be of good quality, low noise and efficient. Antec is one of the few companies that currently use GOOD power supplies in their cases.

That's around $500, so a bit leftover budget for a larger capacity SSD, second hard drive or something else.

 

[Firsttime]

^That was an excellent post that addresses almost everything you need to know on the topic. NCIX and Newegg.ca are both decent places for Canadians to buy from, with the current strong position of the Canadian dollar it shouldn't be too much more then what he said.

 

[rudder]

I would get a cheaper CPU/motherboard, ditch the video card and use onboard, not worry with a 460W power supply and use the savings to get an SSD. For the stuff you mentioned he will be doing this will offer the most improvement.

 

[Bobsy]

Hello,

Thank you very much for the replies. You have educated me and provided essential information. Special thank you to RebateMonger and Zap for reassuring me that IGP will handle Win7 fine, and to alyarb and Zap for the chipset suggestions.

Ultimately I worked from Zap's detailed suggestions and chose to go with the following:

CPU - For $10 extra over the Athlon II X2, I decided to pick the Phenom II X2 545. This was motivated by the extra 7 MB L3 cache which, I have read, should help with the mondane productivity apps that will run on this PC. This CPU has the IMC that you say is beneficial. (Geese, I barely knew what L3 cache was just a week ago.)

Motherboard - I went along with the suggestion and picked an ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO. It's got an AM3 socket, 785G chipset and sideport memory. This board is $10 more expensive than the lower-end ASUS 785G (M4A785-M), but it supports DDR3 which happens to be $10 cheaper than the DDR2 I would have needed on the lower-end board. So for the same total price, it looked like a better choice.

RAM - After reading about the caveats, I did not want to risk compatibility. I found a list (QVL) of "approved" memory for the motherboard and picked one from the list: OCZ Platinum DDR3-1333 2x2GB. If I had been more sure about compatibility, I would have picked the cheaper Gold series, or even the "custom" AMD RAM (sku# OCZ3G1333LVAM4GK). Or memory from other makers. But I took no chance.

Video - onboard. I agree this saves good money. It looks like it is possible to add discrete GPU to the M4A785TD-M EVO motherboard. This is a nice future-proofing feature I think.

Primary HDD - oh boy did I want to go for an SSD. I had the X25-V 40 GB in sight. Unfortunately I estimated that I will need about 40 GB just for the new OS and the content (music, photos, documents, software) from the old PC, leaving no room to grow. Since I would need a secondary HDD anyway (unless I went with a larger by definitely more expensive SSD), I got the secondary HDD right away. If my dad finds his new PC too slow with that HDD set as the primary drive (I really doubt it though), I can always add the SDD as an upgrade later. If the 80 GB model comes down in price, I could ditch the secondary drive all together.

Secondary HDD (which will be primary until we retrofit an SSD) - HD Caviar Blue 500 GB. Thank you Zad for pointing out that the Green series is the slow one. I picked Blue which - I guess - is more balanced between energy consumption and performance.

Optical drive - LG OEM as suggested.

Case - Antec NSK3480 as suggested. Comes with a suitable PSU, great.

I have three final and easy questions about this built:

1. Looking at pictures of the NSK3480 case on Antec's website, I can see that the holes on the rear of the case, through which the motherboards external connectors would stick out, do not match the layout on the motherboard. 😱 Are there other "plates" with different layouts included with the case, or does that come with the motherboard? Or worse even, did I pick an non-compatible combination?
2. The case has a front IEEE port. The motherboard has one IEEE 1394a connector. I am assuming that I should connect these two together. Do I need to buy a cable separately for that? I could check with Antec, but I would like to know if I need to buy any other cables to put this together. The motherboard comes with 2 SATA cables, which will suffice for the HDD and DVD burner. I can't see anything else than that Firewire connector.
3. Will the retail CPU come already attached to the heatsink and fan? Or do I need to buy some "thermal paste" to attach them myself?

Thank you very much again. I will report on my success or failure after I build this computer, which should be in about one week.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Looking at pictures of the NSK3480 case on Antec's website, I can see that the holes on the rear of the case, through which the motherboards external connectors would stick out, do not match the layout on the motherboard. 😱 Are there other "plates" with different layouts included with the case, or does that come with the motherboard? Or worse even, did I pick an non-compatible combination?

Your motherboard will come with a compatible I/O shield.

The case has a front IEEE port. The motherboard has one IEEE 1394a connector. I am assuming that I should connect these two together. Do I need to buy a cable separately for that? I could check with Antec, but I would like to know if I need to buy any other cables to put this together. The motherboard comes with 2 SATA cables, which will suffice for the HDD and DVD burner. I can't see anything else than that Firewire connector.

For case connecters (e.g. front USB and Fireware), your case will come with the appropriate cables.

For connectors on your motherboard (e.g. SATA), your motherboard will come with the appropriate cables.

Will the retail CPU come already attached to the heatsink and fan? Or do I need to buy some "thermal paste" to attach them myself?

The CPU and the heatsink/fan will be separate components. Every bundled heatsink I've ever seen uses a thermal pad that's been pre-applied to the bottom of the heatsink. All you need to do prior to installing is to remove the protective tape over the pad.

 

[jae]

Wait.. so you already bought all that stuff?

 

[Bobsy]

theevilsharpie,
Thanks for the info. So I'll be fine then. Great news.

jae,
Yes, I ordered the parts yesterday morning, following the input I got here. I need these parts for next week since I will be meeting my parents next weekend. (The PC is for them.) Otherwise they would have to wait an extra two months to get it, since they live away in another town.

Additionally, I will be assembling it at their place where I will have no access to a computer store. This is the reason I was asking about extra cables, thermal paste, etc. It's clear to me now that I will have everything I need.

I will let you know how it goes...

 

[Bobsy]

Job's done! The system is up and running, and it is quite impressive. This would not have been possible without the great advice I got here. Thank you again.

Let me list all the components again since I could not get quickly, locally, all the parts I was looking for:

CPU - AMD Phenom II X3 710 (could not get an X2)
Motherboard - ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO
RAM - G.Skill F3-10666CL9D-4GBNQ, which is DDR3-1333 (could not get the OCZ)
Video - Onboard (ATI Radeon HD4200)
HDD - WD Caviar Black 500GB
Case - Antec NSK3480 (as suggested)
Optical drive - LG OEM 24x

As said, this system works beautifully.

Some closing remarks for other newbies:

1. Installing the CPU and bundled heatsink is very very easy.

2. Silentpcreview.com suggests to flip the PSU in their review of the NSK3480. However, surprise! This issue has been resolved by Antec. The power cables come out of the PSU on the same side as the hole to route them through to the main chamber.

3. The PSU does not have a dedicated power plug for the fan, making it impossible for the motherboard to control fan speed. This was a slight disappointement, but only until I started the system up the first time. It is so quiet (I set the fan to low flow using the hardware switch) that this became a non-issue.

4. The WD Caviar Black is super-silent. I could not distinguish its sound from that of the fans.

5. The Antec case looks better in reality than on the pictures on the web site.

6. Windows 7 64-bit runs super-fast.

7. The "Turbo-Key" application from ASUS (motherboard) overclocks the CPU from 2.6 GHz to about 2.72 GHz. I don't think this will ever be used.

Cheers!

 

[betasub]

Thanks for the feedback on your build. Glad it went so smoothly. Your dad should be a happy, productive owner! 🙂