The X850XT will be better than any 6 series nvidia card in most games, and it is significantly cheaper if you buy it now at $250 AR. If however you have to wait till Feb to build it, the deal will be over by then. Of course, prices may drop by then too, but nobody knows for sure. I would either get a 6800GT(or GS if it ever comes out on AGP) or just get an X800/850 variant.
just upgrade to 3200 ram (if you haven't already) and get a better video card. your cpu is way more than enough to "play" games. if you want to upgrade later on, look at amd's new socket am2 (will be out in about 5-6 months).
can anyone quickly describe to me the differenes between the 6800s and the x800/850s? I was under the impression that the 6800s were only around $200, is this not true?
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
Basically:
6xxx series
6800s come in Non-Ultra, GT, GS and Ultra. Ultra is too expensive, so it's out. GS is currently not offered in AGP, so it's out. GT is 16 pipes x 350 clock speed and 256-bit 1000mhz ram. 6800 is much slower than 6800GT since it's only 12 pipes and sports 128bit 700mhz ram. Advantages of 6800 series include ability to put 2 together (SLI) - not applicable to you, ability to support HDR (which X850 can technically do but games wont provide support for it) and PS3.0 shader support in games like Far Cry, Splinter Cell: chaos theory and age of empires 3. Also in simple terms, 6800 series of cards are better at games that incorporate a lot of shadows (softshadows, FEAR, stencil shadows, Doom 3, Quake4).
Pixel Shader 2.0 vs. 2.0b vs. 3.0
X800/X850 series
X850 series only have PS2.0b, so they wont have as good of an image quality in terms of shader effects in few select games. The problem is, 6800 series is simply slower in most PS3.0 games like Far Cry and Splinter Cell and in all games that support HDR. So you are better off taking X850 that'll produce faster framerates and sacrifice some image quality. Normally, I'd say PS3.0 is important as both X1800 and 7800 series fully support it, pushing the direction for future games. But since you plan on upgrading in 1 year anyway, this won't make much of a difference imo. If 6800GS was available for $200 in AGP, it'd be a really good card to go for. But it's not.
With FEAR, you need to turn off Softshadows on X850 cards or they'll tank. But once you turn it off (which wont affect image quality much), X850 should be faster than 6800 cards.
X850XT PE vs. 6800Ultra (that would be similar to comparing X850xt vs. 6800GT - just downgrade both scores by 10% or so since that is the advantage X850xt pe and 6800Ultra hold over their lower siblings)
Basically, X850XT will be faster in FEAR, COD2 (although for both of these, faster still doesnt mean playable
), Far Cry, BF2, HL2.6800GT/Ultra will be faster in Doom 3, Quake 4, Chronicles of Riddick, obliterate X850 in AOE3, and other open GL games like Pacific Fighters.
What you want to achieve, ie. playing at 1600x1200 is simply not possible with any of these cards, maybe not even the latest cards.
COD2 - 1600x1200 no-AA/noAF
FEAR
My points exactly RussianSensation, though you posted with the details to backup your statement .
It seems the majority of people posting in this thread didn't notice that the OP wants his upgraded system to run these games at a resolution of 1600*1200, which is a definite no-no for the 6800U or X850PE.
. It seems the majority of people posting in this thread didn't notice that the OP wants his upgraded system to run these games at a resolution of 1600*1200, which is a definite no-no for the 6800U or X850PE.
OK, so I guess I need to scale down the dream a bit.
Seems like my P43.06 is going to be fine for now, as most of the newer games are GPU intensive. I can OC this since its so old at this point and try and get a bit more juice out of it as well.
But, if I´m keeping my CPU that means I´m also going to keep my Mobo, and therefore am stuck with AGP8x for Vid card upgrade.
So just to clarify - the x850/6800 are the best AGP cards available right now? Is there any thought that this might change by February?
And considering that both cards work well in different games (and i play games from both lists), which one would you all reccommend?
Again, this is all prelim research as i wont be ordering anything until the end of January.
Seems like my P43.06 is going to be fine for now, as most of the newer games are GPU intensive. I can OC this since its so old at this point and try and get a bit more juice out of it as well.
But, if I´m keeping my CPU that means I´m also going to keep my Mobo, and therefore am stuck with AGP8x for Vid card upgrade.
So just to clarify - the x850/6800 are the best AGP cards available right now? Is there any thought that this might change by February?
And considering that both cards work well in different games (and i play games from both lists), which one would you all reccommend?
Again, this is all prelim research as i wont be ordering anything until the end of January.
if you wanna do it cheap
all you'll need do is upgrade the video card. like others have said great choices on AGP are 6800 series and stuff from ATI's X800/850 range (though dont pay much attention to the pro models)
1 gb of ram is absolutely fine, the only game really demanding more is BF2, but like Malladine said DDR is cheap as chips at the moment, i would jump on 1 more gig while the prices are low.
socket 478 boards are pretty thin on the ground, and yes it does look like your limited to AGP which is also on its way out. still the above mentioned graphics solutions are still very credible.
and yes...AGP for now and the fore-see-able future, stops with the 6800/x850. (there is supposedly a 6800gs in AGP form, and there was speculation of a 7800GS in AGP but i highly doubt it) either of those cards will put you in good stead. for resolutions like your monitor i would be inclined to get the X850XT. these cards are usually better at higher resolutions than the 6800 series.
forget fear at anything above 12x10......that is one hog of a game. its even unplayable at 16x12 on some SLI setups.
the AGP market wont be changing much now, cards like the 6800Ultra, 6800GT are begining to get sparse, so id pick one up before they go....or you'll end up on ebay
all you'll need do is upgrade the video card. like others have said great choices on AGP are 6800 series and stuff from ATI's X800/850 range (though dont pay much attention to the pro models)
1 gb of ram is absolutely fine, the only game really demanding more is BF2, but like Malladine said DDR is cheap as chips at the moment, i would jump on 1 more gig while the prices are low.
socket 478 boards are pretty thin on the ground, and yes it does look like your limited to AGP which is also on its way out. still the above mentioned graphics solutions are still very credible.
and yes...AGP for now and the fore-see-able future, stops with the 6800/x850. (there is supposedly a 6800gs in AGP form, and there was speculation of a 7800GS in AGP but i highly doubt it) either of those cards will put you in good stead. for resolutions like your monitor i would be inclined to get the X850XT. these cards are usually better at higher resolutions than the 6800 series.
forget fear at anything above 12x10......that is one hog of a game. its even unplayable at 16x12 on some SLI setups.
the AGP market wont be changing much now, cards like the 6800Ultra, 6800GT are begining to get sparse, so id pick one up before they go....or you'll end up on ebay
Spike
Diamond Member
- Aug 27, 2001
- 6,770
- 1
- 81
Originally posted by: Mogadon
My points exactly RussianSensation, though you posted with the details to backup your statement
It seems the majority of people posting in this thread didn't notice that the OP wants his upgraded system to run these games at a resolution of 1600*1200, which is a definite no-no for the 6800U or X850PE.
Ok, I don't have ANY idea where you come up with this statment. Here is my core system:
AXP 2500+ @ 2.2ghz
2GB OCZ Plat
BFG 6800GT @ 420/1100
Guess what folks, I play BF2 and COD2 @ 1680x1050 with max details and no aa or med details and 4x aa with 40-60fps avg. FEAR is another story and I ended up playing that max details @ 1024x768. With a X850XT being faster than my 6800 I don't see ANY issues playing most of todays games at 1600x1200 and have no idea why you all are saying this.
I repeat my previous advice, get a X850XT for $250ish and call it good for a year or so. Then save some $$ get a AM2 setup with a PCIe gpu and you are good to go.
-spike
How about the x1600xt?
It's now 159 at ewiz and
F.E.A.R scores >=6800 & has H.264 decoding!
seems more future proof, mabe dual display and tvout work better?
12 pipes 590 core 700 mem = 1.38Ghz!
weak in other areas like 5 shaders and 4 channel
WHAT A TOSS UP!
evga 6600gt for 130-20 rebate looks yummy too!
It's now 159 at ewiz and
F.E.A.R scores >=6800 & has H.264 decoding!
seems more future proof, mabe dual display and tvout work better?
12 pipes 590 core 700 mem = 1.38Ghz!
weak in other areas like 5 shaders and 4 channel
WHAT A TOSS UP!
evga 6600gt for 130-20 rebate looks yummy too!
the x1600 is like a 3 legged dog. the powers there.....but theyve disabled it by using only 4 TMU's (i think thats right, please correct me) for the most part your better off with a 6600gt lol, or a x800pro, x800xl, x800GTO, GOT2, etc etc
Actually, you do have an option in between.... Albatron makes a Socket 478 board with a PCI Express slot, the PX915P4C. You could get one of those with a 7800gt and be set for at least another year.
Look into the 6800GS agp or X800GTO2 agp(both about $250 I think), and sell your 9700pro. Brings the cost down to $200 and you've got a great gaming sys. for another year.
edit. I see you want to run 1600x1200? Well, only way then is a new sys., but you could just buy a used 17"crt, set up dual monitors and game off that.
edit. I see you want to run 1600x1200? Well, only way then is a new sys., but you could just buy a used 17"crt, set up dual monitors and game off that.
PKrush, your idea intrigues me.
The problem I have with getting an high end AGP card is, of course, that it is less future-proof than the others, and would not be useable on my next system since AGP is getting phased out.
But if I can get a cheap 478 board that can accomodate my P4 3.06ghz chip AND I could get a 7800 card, which seem to be the best bang for the buck at the moment, then I would be future proof for a while, since my CPU is not going to be the most limiting factor as far as gaming goes. And then, when I need to do a greater upgrade I could keep the Video card, toss the Mobo and CPU, and get a new AMD board.
However, Pkrush, I cant find that Mobo you mentioned on Newegg or on Anandtechs price search.
Does anyone know of some cheap but decent mobos that could work for this plan? and what do you think of it (the plan)?
The problem I have with getting an high end AGP card is, of course, that it is less future-proof than the others, and would not be useable on my next system since AGP is getting phased out.
But if I can get a cheap 478 board that can accomodate my P4 3.06ghz chip AND I could get a 7800 card, which seem to be the best bang for the buck at the moment, then I would be future proof for a while, since my CPU is not going to be the most limiting factor as far as gaming goes. And then, when I need to do a greater upgrade I could keep the Video card, toss the Mobo and CPU, and get a new AMD board.
However, Pkrush, I cant find that Mobo you mentioned on Newegg or on Anandtechs price search.
Does anyone know of some cheap but decent mobos that could work for this plan? and what do you think of it (the plan)?
I would just get an agp card as you're just wasting money on another motherboard. I can see where you're coming from with the idea of switching to pci e but let's face it your not going to be keeping a 7800gt for longer than 2 years probably more like 18 months.
I did some searching, and while I can´t find the Albatron board, I found a few others that are P4 boards with a PCI express x16 slot:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247051
- Asus P4V800D-X VIA PT880 Ultra P4/Celeron 800FSB Skt478 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
400/533/800FSB, ATA133, AGP 8X, 4DDR DIMM, 1 PCI Express x16, 3PCI, USB 2.0, Audio, LAN, RAID/SATA
$99
and
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247048
- Asus P4RD1-MX Radeon Xpress 200 P4/Celeron 800FSB Skt478 DDR M-ATX Motherboard w/Audio, LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
533/800FSB, ATA133, 2DDR DIMM, 1 PCI Express x16, 1 PCI Express x1, 2PCI, USB 2.0, Audio, LAN, RIAD/SATA
$65
Both are out of stock at Zipzoomfly, checking other places.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247051
- Asus P4V800D-X VIA PT880 Ultra P4/Celeron 800FSB Skt478 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
400/533/800FSB, ATA133, AGP 8X, 4DDR DIMM, 1 PCI Express x16, 3PCI, USB 2.0, Audio, LAN, RAID/SATA
$99
and
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247048
- Asus P4RD1-MX Radeon Xpress 200 P4/Celeron 800FSB Skt478 DDR M-ATX Motherboard w/Audio, LAN, RAID/Serial ATA Retail ***Free 2nd Day***
533/800FSB, ATA133, 2DDR DIMM, 1 PCI Express x16, 1 PCI Express x1, 2PCI, USB 2.0, Audio, LAN, RIAD/SATA
$65
Both are out of stock at Zipzoomfly, checking other places.
What do people think about this move?
To recap for those new to the thread:
I have a P4 3.06 on a P4P800deluxe mobo. 1gb 3200 ram (2x512). Radeon 9700pro.
Want to upgrade for modern games, but know that now is not really the time to do a FULL upgrade, as my cpu is still half decent, and I want to wait and see what happens with dual cores, etc.
But, to stay completely with my system I am limited to 6800 or x850 cards, since both come in AGP. But AGP, as we all know, is a dead format, so putting anything into it at this point is pretty much wasted money in a year when the full upgrade happens, as by that point the cards will be worth very little. (like trying to sell a PCI graphics card 2 years ago).
So the other option is to get a PCI-e graphics card and a new mobo. I thought this would mean a new chip too, since when you think PCI-e gaming, you think AMD. But there ARE a few socket 478 boards out there that have a PCI-ex16 slot, see the posts above for some links.
So the thought is - if I spend $65 or $99 on the board, then spend the $280 or whatever the 7800 is going for (will be even less at the end of January, which is when I'm getting this stuff anyway), then for roughly $380 I have a card that will be viable for a lot longer than the 6800/x850, plus will be able to be sold when upgrade time comes, as it is PCI-e as opposed to AGP.
If I went with the x850, I would be paying around $250, right? SO for a bit over $100 I get future viability and a more powerful current rig.
What do you all think?
To recap for those new to the thread:
I have a P4 3.06 on a P4P800deluxe mobo. 1gb 3200 ram (2x512). Radeon 9700pro.
Want to upgrade for modern games, but know that now is not really the time to do a FULL upgrade, as my cpu is still half decent, and I want to wait and see what happens with dual cores, etc.
But, to stay completely with my system I am limited to 6800 or x850 cards, since both come in AGP. But AGP, as we all know, is a dead format, so putting anything into it at this point is pretty much wasted money in a year when the full upgrade happens, as by that point the cards will be worth very little. (like trying to sell a PCI graphics card 2 years ago).
So the other option is to get a PCI-e graphics card and a new mobo. I thought this would mean a new chip too, since when you think PCI-e gaming, you think AMD. But there ARE a few socket 478 boards out there that have a PCI-ex16 slot, see the posts above for some links.
So the thought is - if I spend $65 or $99 on the board, then spend the $280 or whatever the 7800 is going for (will be even less at the end of January, which is when I'm getting this stuff anyway), then for roughly $380 I have a card that will be viable for a lot longer than the 6800/x850, plus will be able to be sold when upgrade time comes, as it is PCI-e as opposed to AGP.
If I went with the x850, I would be paying around $250, right? SO for a bit over $100 I get future viability and a more powerful current rig.
What do you all think?
ronach
Senior member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 485
- 2
- 81
Newguy,
I played the game at 1024X768 on a 19 in. CRT. I don't remember what the other settings were, heh, finished the game, but I never play at low compromised settings. If you can, borrow a buds 6800GT and check it out on your own monitor. That will be the only proof of the puddin, if you get my drift. Good luck.
I played the game at 1024X768 on a 19 in. CRT. I don't remember what the other settings were, heh, finished the game, but I never play at low compromised settings. If you can, borrow a buds 6800GT and check it out on your own monitor. That will be the only proof of the puddin, if you get my drift. Good luck.
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