Need to Upgrade my Tired GeForce 256

[nagibbs]

I have decided to upgrade my old and tired GeForce 256 card (32mb) with something new. I have just bought the MS Fltsim 2004 and am not getting the frame rates I want. My system is a PIII 1000MHZ (100 bus) and instead of a new Dell I will opt for a new video card. What are you opinions of the ATI Radeon 8500LE with 128mb as far as speed and what is the comparable GeForce card available? I have not kept up with the latest trends in video cards so what is a good value/performance card? Thanks

 

[dguy6789]

I recommend any of the following will be suitable for your system:

Radeon 8500
Radeon 8500LE
Radeon 9000 Pro
Geforce 4 TI4200
Geforce 3 TI200
Geforce 3
Geforce 3 TI500
Radeon 9100


Any one of those cards would be a huge improvement, and would be good with your cpu without spending too much, i belive the most expensive one is the ti4200, which is 100 bucks or less. Any of these would play flight sim 2004 at max settigns without a hiccup. hope this helps.

 

[AnAndAustin]

The problems with the budget gfx cards is that clock speeds vary meaning you can;t judge perf simply by the model naming, esp as many newer cards with higher numbers offer slower perf! Anyway if you want it simple there isn't any point buying less thana GF2TI, GF4MX, Rad7500 or Rad9000 which are all about the same speed and abilities (except 9000 which has DX8.1 although it's pointless at that speed). The GF3 are much better and have DX8 but they do have some downsides outside of gaming. The Rad9000-9200 are inferior and slower than the Rad8500 (inc the slightly slower 8500LE), though 9000PRO-9200 aren't hugely slower and replaced the 8500 because they're cheaper to produce. So basicly Rad8500 (inc LE) are the best option but you should be sure they use 128bitDDR RAM and use at least 250/250 clocks (pref 275/275). Radeons often quote the RAM speed without DDR so 250/250 is actually 250/500, they mean the same. The new DX9 budget card, GF-FX5200 is still good despite being too slow for DX9 so you could consider that too, still slower than the Rad8500 though! If you want to avoid all the clock discrepencies and headaches simply look for a GF4TI4200 which is easily better than everything above, you won't get the most out of it on a 1ghz CPU but it scales well so if you upgrade the CPU it will still gain perf and in the meantime it can be forced to use 2xAA+4xAF all the time to help soak up the untapped potential of the gfx card and you should find little impact on FPS in upping the details and res. So in order of speed IF clocks are where they should be

GF4TI4200
Rad8500
Rad8500LE
GF3TI500
GF-FX5200
Rad9000PRO/9100/9200
GF3TI200
GF4MX (DX7)
Rad9000 (slow DX8)
GF2TI/Rad7500 (DX7)

Diffs between cards are smaller though for slower CPUs so no need to go overboard esp if you don't care for high res, AA+AF or plan to keep the card whenever you next upgrade. I would rec a DX8 card (GF3TI200 and up) and 128MB is nice but not as important as the type of card, eg. GF4MX 128MB is NOT better than GF3TI200 64MB.

 

[videoclone]

Just get a Gigacube ATI Radeon 9200 128MB Card ... its only $70 and its well worth every Dollar!

And also make sure your System has at least 512MB of memory.

Dont worry about those other videocards this is the best value solution out at the moment unless you want to spend more and get a Geforce4 Ti4200.

 

[modedepe]

How much are you willing to spend? The best cards would be either a gf4 ti4200, gf3 ti500, or a radeon 8500. I'd get whichever is closest to your pricerange. Those cards would pretty much max out your cpu. 9200 isn't really worth it, since it's the same as a 9000 except it costs more and has agp 8x, which is useless.

 

[DahDee]

Refurb Chaintech Ti4200 128 8X for $79 with free shipping at New Egg:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=N82E16814145031

 

[AnAndAustin]

The 9200 is better than the 9000, more like the 9000PRO and 9100 but unfort still slower than the GF-FX5200 and you get better AA+AF and DX9 there too ... not that they're likely to be usable! As said 4200 is really the ideal card (and $79 is a giveaway) then simply force 2xAA+4xAF always on and see what res you can get out with it and your CPU.

 

[nagibbs]

Ok it comes down to this: considering my processor is an old PIII 1000mhz (100bus) would I be better going with a TI4200 128mb for around $105 or with a Radeon 9600PRO (around $160 at CC on Sunday after rebates)? I am mainly interested in increasing my framerates with my new MS Flight Sim 2004 (which does use DirectX9.0). What do you think and thanks?

 

[AnAndAustin]

I don't think the 9600PRO is worth the extra $55 esp since your CPU will surely hold you back from DX9 gaming anyway. I'd say get a 4200 and maybe then put some cash with that $55 and upgrade your CPU+mobo, you could look at a 2nd hand XP1800+old mobo+PC133 as this will seriously improve everythig you do with your PC.

 

[nRollo]

Anand Austin is right about this, you need a motherboard upgrade.

 

[nagibbs]

What suggestions would you have a a new motherboard and I guess I would need new ram and of course the processor? Getting bit expensive already. Thanks

 

[Pete]

9200 = 9000 plus AGP 8x compatability, nothing more.

I think you'd see greater benefit from a CPU+RAM upgrade than from a video card upgrade--flight sims are usually CPU-bound. If you're on an extreme budget, consider an Athlon XP 1700+ / Asus A7N266-VM / (1x) 512MB PC2700 combo. You'd be better served in terms of performance and future upgradability with an XP2500+ / nForce 2 / (1x) 512MB PC3200 combo, though. The nForce 2 will allow you to overclock the CPU and upgrade to a faster one down the line. If you're really pinching pennies, you can even go with an XP1700+ rather than an XP2500+, knowing that you can OC the 1700+ pretty far.

 

[AnAndAustin]

I doubt he'll be wanting to keep his GF1 card and just upgrade his PIII 1ghz as for gaming the gfx card is way more important. What's your budget nagibbs? Do you mind trying a little o/c'ing as a lot of chips have a lot of headroom in them by the very nature of their design?

Pete, the Rad9000 is seriously slow but the Rad9000PRO is much closer to a Rad8500LE (in turn 10% slower than Rad8500). The Rad9100 & 9200 are more like Rad9000PRO with useless AGP8x aren't they? There's also the Rad9200PRO which should be close to Rad8500 speed, right? If you don't want to spend a bucket you'll have to go AMD so here's an idea of what to get, price it up at Newegg?

TbredB (must be TbredB not A or Pally) XP1700+
TbredB (must be TbredB not A or Pally) XP2100+ (useful for mobos lacking multiplier/freq adjustment due to 13x133)
Barton (always uses Barton) XP2500+ (Barton is 5% faster than TbredB clock for clock)

All three of these should get around 2.2ghz meaning TbredB equal XP3000+ (roughly) while Barton equal XP3200+. You should be assured (as you can possibly get when o/c'ing) of at least 2.1ghz which is still seriously fast. Heck even stock the lowly XP1700+ is HUGELY fast compared to PIII 1ghz and able to get great perf from gfx cards and lovelly perf in games. You'll want a decent HSF, the inexpensive speed adjustable Volcano 11 is an excellent choice.

256MB PC2700 is okay but PC3200 is better and costs very little more. A good brand like Crucial or TwinMOS are great without being expensive. 512MB is nice but seriously not needed esp if your budget is tight.

Mobo choices come down primarily to chipset. SiS746FX should be cheapest but lack o/c'ing options, leaving you with FSB to o/c only and the official max is 333FSB. SiS748 simply offer 400FSB. KT400 (KT400A slightly faster) only officially offer 333FSB and many entry level ones may lack multiplier adjustment too. KT600 are KT400A with 400FSB, even entry level ones should supply multiplier adjustment though. nForce2 come in a variety of flavours but basicly all should run 400FSB and have great o/c'ing abilities. The Dual Channel DDR ones do give a 5% boost which is nice but not overly necessary as without it they are still at KT600 speeds and it raises the cost as you need 2 sticks of RAM. Teaming an XP2100+ up with a mobo lacking o/c'ing options like multiplier adjustment is a good idea as the 13x default should not be limiting even on a mobo lacking 400FSB ability, plus 1.6v is default IIRC and should allow enough headroom. The XP1700+ DLT3C come with 1.5v which will be limiting if your mobo can't up the voltage, XP1700+ DUT3C come with 1.6v and overcome that problem, the 11x multiplier should allow a 400FSB mobo achieve the magical 2.2ghz even if it lacks multiplier adjustment. XP2500+ should always come with 1.65v and again an 11x multiplier so dito to the DUT3C XP1700+ above. So lack of o/c'ing options shouldn't be overly problematic meaning you can get an entry level mobo but do ensure it can do 333FSB or better still 400FSB. nForce2 is best if you want an easy life but expect to pay more.

Gfx card. GF4TI4200 is great for the money and I'd suggest not going lower as your PIII 1ghz will most likely be close to getting max gfx perf out of most of the slower cards. Rad9600PRO and FX5600ultra are 50% more pricey but give you better AA+AF and DX9 so are more future-proofed.

I imagine £ will translate closely into US$ since we pay a fair bit more over here and have 17.5% VAT. So prices wil be...

£40-70 CPU capable of 2.1 - 2.3ghz (add £15 for HSF)
£50 256MB PC3200 good brand
£35-85 mobo
£85 GF4TI4200 128MB
TOTAL £210 - £290

PS. As a side note you may find your case isn't up to these CPUs, should be fine but may limit achieving the highest clock speeds. Your PSU is unlikely to be good enough although you could buy the stuff hoping it will do and then buy a PSU if you need to. 350W would be a minimum ideally from Antec or Enermax although Sparkle and ToPower are also good and cheaper, 400W is wise if you go for an unknown brand. Other than that there should be no unpleasent surprises and you should find you can easily stay under £300 regardless, you could always get the 4200 now and look to save £200 for the other upgrades.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: AnAndAustin
Pete, the Rad9000 is seriously slow but the Rad9000PRO is much closer to a Rad8500LE (in turn 10% slower than Rad8500). The Rad9100 & 9200 are more like Rad9000PRO with useless AGP8x aren't they? There's also the Rad9200PRO which should be close to Rad8500 speed, right? If you don't want to spend a bucket you'll have to go AMD so here's an idea of what to get, price it up at Newegg?

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/sapphire/9200/:

"9200 uses the RV280 chip, which is a development of RV250, also based on Radeon 8500/9100's R200 core, but cut back to meet the entry level market. RV280 holds the exact same core configuration as RV250, but with the addition of full AGP8X support. The other main differential is that rather than using their primary fab partner, TSMC, for RV280 ATI have adopted to use UMC."

9000 / 9200: 250/200MHz core/mem
9000P (and perhaps 9200P, though I haven't seen one of those yet): 275/275MHz

 

[nRollo]

What suggestions would you have a a new motherboard and I guess I would need new ram and of course the processor?

I guess that(expensive)depends on how you look at it. You've got a P111 1GHz board and RAM I would think are worth $50-$60 to someone.
You could get this Biostar nForce2 mobo for $57 shipped after rebate, so you're about even there.
http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=13-138-227-01.JPG/13-138-227-03.JPG/13-138-227-06.jpg/13-138-227-04.JPG
You could slap this retail Athlon 1800+ with hsf on it for another $57.
http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=20-145-056-05.JPG
Add another $50 to your order and you've got a 256MB stick of name brand PC2700 DDR

So for $107 out of pocket, you could have a MUCH more powerful motherboard. To me, that would be worth it.

As far as your video card goes:
You have a Geforce worth $30-$40..
http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=14-102-253-05.JPG/14-102-253-07.JPG/14-102-253-06.JPG
Here's a Sapphire 9500 for $120 shipped leaving you out $90.

So for $200 you could have a usable computer. Seems fair to me.