Need suggestions for putting up a gaming rig

[konakona]

Thats the total budget without including stuff like keyboard, mouse and the case (will need a PSU though).


A friend of mine wants to upgrade from his aging compaq, to something that would allow him play some FPS with all the eyecandy. He only mentioned Battlefiled, so I urged him it is better to do research on games first and see which ones he would be playing the most, since different companies (ie ATI vs NVIDIA) excel at different things. But the budget constraint sort of already narrows down what choices he has there.

I was thinking either going with s939 opties and go with some refurb mobo from egg and 1gb ram, or maybe one of those s754 sempr0ns from outpost and pair it up with 2gb of ram?
As for the Vid card, I maybe a 7800gt and OC the hell out of it or get a 1800XT which they seem to have a good deal on after the rebate.

As for ram, I have no clue. I just remember that AMD systems are less dependant on the FSB speed, so he could probably get by with something priced more competitively.

Last but not least, Seasonic S12 series seems to be the popular choice of PSU, and the 430W version would suffice since I doubt he plans on going SLI in any forseeable future.

He is not very computer savvy, so it wouldnt be a good idea to get him something not-so-totally stable. Yet he seems to be eager to learn, and doesnt object overclocking or waiting on rebates.

BTW, he also needs a LCD monitor to replace his CRT, with extra budget outside of what was posted above. I was quite impressed with the Hanns LCD from PC connection, just got the rebate too (took them about 2 weeks). Is there any better deal on LCDs out now? Or would it be wiser to wait a tad longer with expected price cuts on LCDs?

TIA

EDIT : oops forgot the HDD... probably just something cheap from OD/OM/Staples would do. He wants about 200gb, so I am expecting to deduct another $50~$60 on that from the projected budget.

 

[Ultralight]

NewEgg is having some phenomenal deals right now:

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ for $135.00

ViewSonic 19" LCD for $269.00

Antec TruePower 2.0 550W psu for $89.00

EPoX 9NPA+Ultra socket 939 for under $100

Staples: As of last night had a 250 gig Western Digital HD fro $99.00.

* Why even consider the 754? And why refurbished?!? Heck, the s939 will soon be discontinued as the advent of AM2 is here. However, 939 is very much still a viable option and is ready for Vista as well.

 

[imported_killuminati]

this is what i came up with :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130050
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103633
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220143
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102698
a decent 450Watts PSU for $50 more and Harddisk for $80 more
around $750 .
for LCD get cheapo .
Peace & ciao !!!

 

[bamacre]

Might as well get a dual core.

FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX450-PN 450W PSU
$60.19
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954

ABIT NI8 SLI NVIDIA nForce4 Socket 775 ATX Motherboard
$78.98
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications...etails.asp?EdpNo=1490501&sku=A458-1122

Intel® Pentium® D Processor 930 3.0GHz, 800MHz FSB, Socket 775, 2x2MB Cache, Dual Core Retail
$194.40
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80851

Patriot Signature PSD21G533K 1GB Kit DDR2-533 PC2-4200 Memory Retail
$80.00
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=83751

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB Serial ATA II 7200RPM Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer
$79.99
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101220-11

LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model SHW160P6S05
$33.88
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106014

SAPPHIRE Radeon X1800XT 100154 Video Card
$245.37
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102007

Total Price Shipped:
$772.81

 

[LOUISSSSS]

^^ nice build, was wondering how hot pentium D's run.. how are they compared to prescott's around 3ghz...

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
^^ nice build, was wondering how hot pentium D's run.. how are they compared to prescott's around 3ghz...

The 900's run much cooler, built .65nm process. And they are faster.

 

[konakona]

I guess I should have made it clear that $800 is the MAXIMUM, and he would happier to settle for something around $600 unless its significantly better (FX grade chip, not like a typical a64). He specifically mentioned a 200gb HDD would suffice.

Originally posted by: Ultralight
NewEgg is having some phenomenal deals right now:

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ for $135.00

ViewSonic 19" LCD for $269.00

Antec TruePower 2.0 550W psu for $89.00

EPoX 9NPA+Ultra socket 939 for under $100

Staples: As of last night had a 250 gig Western Digital HD fro $99.00.

* Why even consider the 754? And why refurbished?!? Heck, the s939 will soon be discontinued as the advent of AM2 is here. However, 939 is very much still a viable option and is ready for Vista as well.

Personally I think you should either go all out (but with still good bang for buck) and get opty 144/146 or just get s754 semprons. s939 athlons, imo is the true middle of the road that neither provides the power and headroom of opty (aka FX chips in disguise), nor the fantastic price/performance ratio of fry sempron deals. Semprons easily OC up to 2.4-2.6, which is almost as good as s939 A64 3500+ unoverclocked. If you were to shell out more and get a s939 mobo, why wouldnt you spend a tad more and get much faster opteron instead?

There isnt anything wrong with refurbished mobos, check the hot deals thread for the Asrock s939 mobo.

I have done enough research on the latest generation of the PSUs for my own rig in the past, reading AT forums and SPCR and other place and concluded the current truepower lineup is quite mediocre, while the S12 is a step up from everything else.

Thanks for suggestions, but most of the stuff on your list is either not the best bang for buck or just a bit pricey. The hanns 19'' I was reffering to was ~$150 with tax and everything, and I wouldnt buy any hdds with worse than 30cents per gig price.

this is what i came up with :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130050
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103633
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220143
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102698
a decent 450Watts PSU for $50 more and Harddisk for $80 more
around $750 .
for LCD get cheapo .
Peace & ciao !!!

I like the 1800XT deal, that was what I had on my mind. As for the CPU, he is willing to overclock, so I would rather get him something priced more competitively. Don't 3500s OC nearly the same as 3200s? I am not completely sure whats the status on the optys at this point, but last thing I remember was they are a good bit faster than equivalently priced A64s even after price adjustments. Plus I thought AMD cpus cant benefit from DDR2 until AM2 comes along? Isnt there something cheaper and still decent?

Might as well get a dual core.

FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX450-PN 450W PSU
$60.19
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954

ABIT NI8 SLI NVIDIA nForce4 Socket 775 ATX Motherboard
$78.98
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications...etails.asp?EdpNo=1490501&sku=A458-1122

Intel® Pentium® D Processor 930 3.0GHz, 800MHz FSB, Socket 775, 2x2MB Cache, Dual Core Retail
$194.40
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80851

Patriot Signature PSD21G533K 1GB Kit DDR2-533 PC2-4200 Memory Retail
$80.00
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=83751

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB Serial ATA II 7200RPM Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer
$79.99
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101220-11

LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model SHW160P6S05
$33.88
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106014

SAPPHIRE Radeon X1800XT 100154 Video Card
$245.37
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102007

Total Price Shipped:
$772.81

Fotron PSUs seem to have quite a good reputation, but for about mere $20 difference, I think I probably want to get him a unanimously praised S12 instead.

As for the CPU, his main use will be gaming and he wont be doing any heavy multi-tasking at all. How do 930 series compare to highly OC'd s939 opterons in games? IIRC, there are few games out there now that arent completely GPU bounded. I guess I could ask him how much emphasis he puts on gaming, but he made it sound like the sole purpose of upgrading is to play games on it. I would probably have to dig up some more reviews, but you are more than welcome to help me with that

Oh yeah, one last bit : he doesnt mind getting used parts either, as long as they work fine. Just that with parts like vid cards/CPUs, there is a good chance they arent as OCable unless specifically stated up to what speeds, and HDD are more often than not cheaper new with rebates and such.

 

[bamacre]

An Oc'd A64 or Opteron will be quite faster than a Pentium 930, even OC'd. If he just wants a cheaper single core, then go AMD. Just remember that gaming peformance relies on the video card much more so than CPU. So, money is better spent in the video card department if gaming is the sole intention of the PC. And when games come out that make use of a second core, he can upgrade if you go skt939, so stay away from the skt754.

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: bamacre
An Oc'd A64 or Opteron will be quite faster than a Pentium 930, even OC'd. If he just wants a cheaper single core, then go AMD. Just remember that gaming peformance relies on the video card much more so than CPU. So, money is better spent in the video card department if gaming is the sole intention of the PC. And when games come out that make use of a second core, he can upgrade if you go skt939, so stay away from the skt754.

Who is Jesus, some ATOT member I suppose? havnt posted in the OT forums for about a good year haha

I guess my question for now can be narrowed down to these :
1) Whats the current state of Opterons, as in price/performance, overclockability and availability? I am assuming its gotta be either from tankguys or monarch. Too bad I live in GA so going monarch would incur additional tax charges.
2) Is 1800XT the best game in town in terms of bang for buck? He really has no preference for OGL games, and power/noise isnt of his primary concern, which is why I thought it would be more fitting to get him an ATi card with faster shader and better IQ.
3) I remember seeing a thread in general hardware where a group of AT members demonstrated how faster ram really isnt worth it for A64 series, presumably thanks to their integrated memory controller. Does that still hold? With that in mind, is there any ongoing deal on some cheap ram?

 

[alimoalem]

i still have no idea why you're thinking of getting a 754 sempron. it's a gaming rig, not an office computer.

CPU: 3800X2 - $297.
MB: Epox 9NPA+ Ultra for $95 or Asus A8N5X for $79
GPU: Sapphire Radeon X1800XT 256MB for $220AR
RAM: thisPatriot DDR400 (2x1gb CAS2) kit for $126 AR or this Patriot DDR500 (2x1gb) kit for $146 (the second is better for overclocking)
HDD: Western Digital SE16 250GB for $80AR

this'll get you at $800. he could cut on the ram and get 1gb but i strongly recommend the 2gb. he can also get a A64 3200+ for the cpu (around $130). this is the only downgrade i would advise. the hard drive is fast and cheap for the size. the gpu is good and if you downgrade it even buy a few dollars, you'll see a drastic performance decrease. i'm not sure about cheaper motherboards. those are the only 2 good ones i know for <$100

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: alimoalem
i still have no idea why you're thinking of getting a 754 sempron. it's a gaming rig, not an office computer.

CPU: 3800X2 - $297.
MB: Epox 9NPA+ Ultra for $95 or Asus A8N5X for $79
GPU: Sapphire Radeon X1800XT 256MB for $220AR
RAM: thisPatriot DDR400 (2x1gb CAS2) kit for $126 AR or this Patriot DDR500 (2x1gb) kit for $146 (the second is better for overclocking)
HDD: Western Digital SE16 250GB for $80AR

this'll get you at $800. he could cut on the ram and get 1gb but i strongly recommend the 2gb. he can also get a A64 3200+ for the cpu (around $130). this is the only downgrade i would advise. the hard drive is fast and cheap for the size. the gpu is good and if you downgrade it even buy a few dollars, you'll see a drastic performance decrease. i'm not sure about cheaper motherboards. those are the only 2 good ones i know for <$100

The epox board looks good, I might go with that in the even I go with opterons. Which one of the the two mobos is the more overclockable one? The reason I thought sempron would be a viable choice is that he would much rather get a $600 machine (I updated the title). But on the second thought, I guess I was neglecting the need for PCI-E. No s754 it is, then. My question for your rec list is why you would use a high end A64 when he is willing to overclock to the fullest.

I take it Patriots are ram modules of choice for a budget rig. Would $20 difference be worth the performance gain? My impression from reading that thread I mentioned above was that you could take the lower memory speed with higher divider and take minimal performance hit. Please correct me if I am wrong though.

 

[alimoalem]

1. the epox is a better overclocker.

2. high end A64? the reason i went with the 3800x2 over the opty 165 is because with 3800x2, it's right at $800 so i didn't wanna go over. And it's the cheapest AMD dual core. i suggested dual core just so the rig doesn't get out of date as quickly but i stated the 3200+ would be the best downgrade. the 200MHz the 3500+ has to offer is nowhere near worth the price increase and the 3000+ is just a few $ cheaper and the 3200+ OCs a bit more than the 3000+. with just the CPU downgrade, you put your friend at about $635.

3. just because your friend is willing to "overclock to the fullest," it doesn't mean he'll overclock just as high as others that have been doing it for years. i think he can hit 2.5GHz with the 3200 or the 3800x2, but overclocks are NOT guaranteed

4. Patriot is not ram of choice for budget rigs. they just have a $57 rebate right now so it makes them pretty cheap. i also found Corsair XMS ram modules for around $140 (DDR400) and same for OCZ. G.SKILL is a very good manufacturer for ram but they don't have any instant rebates/mail-in rebates so they're a few dollars more expensive right now.

5. The cheaper Patriot ram is DDR400 ram but has low latency (CAS2). because it's DDR400, though, there's no guarantee it'll overclock at all. the DDR500 is supposed to reach DDR500 speeds.

6. your reading is correct but if your friend is in the ~$630 range, there's no harm in adding another $20. ram is the last thing you'd want to upgrade but it's not like you MUST avoid upgrading it, especially with the cheap prices today.

7. i forgot to add in the PSU. don't get the seasonic s12 430w (as you suggested). the only reason i would get a seasonic over a fortron psu is for silence, but it doesn't seem like your friend is going for a silent rig. the Fortron 450w is $40 cheaper and just as good.

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: alimoalem
1. the epox is a better overclocker.

2. high end A64? the reason i went with the 3800x2 over the opty 165 is because with 3800x2, it's right at $800 so i didn't wanna go over. And it's the cheapest AMD dual core. i suggested dual core just so the rig doesn't get out of date as quickly but i stated the 3200+ would be the best downgrade. the 200MHz the 3500+ has to offer is nowhere near worth the price increase and the 3000+ is just a few $ cheaper and the 3200+ OCs a bit more than the 3000+. with just the CPU downgrade, you put your friend at about $635.

3. just because your friend is willing to "overclock to the fullest," it doesn't mean he'll overclock just as high as others that have been doing it for years. i think he can hit 2.5GHz with the 3200 or the 3800x2, but overclocks are NOT guaranteed

4. Patriot is not ram of choice for budget rigs. they just have a $57 rebate right now so it makes them pretty cheap. i also found Corsair XMS ram modules for around $140 (DDR400) and same for OCZ. G.SKILL is a very good manufacturer for ram but they don't have any instant rebates/mail-in rebates so they're a few dollars more expensive right now.

5. The cheaper Patriot ram is DDR400 ram but has low latency (CAS2). because it's DDR400, though, there's no guarantee it'll overclock at all. the DDR500 is supposed to reach DDR500 speeds.

6. your reading is correct but if your friend is in the ~$630 range, there's no harm in adding another $20. ram is the last thing you'd want to upgrade but it's not like you MUST avoid upgrading it, especially with the cheap prices today.

7. i forgot to add in the PSU. don't get the seasonic s12 430w (as you suggested). the only reason i would get a seasonic over a fortron psu is for silence, but it doesn't seem like your friend is going for a silent rig. the Fortron 450w is $40 cheaper and just as good.

Wow, thanks for taking your time and sharing your insight!

1. point taken.

2. I will have to ask him if he wishes to go dual core. Better yet, I feel it would be more fitting to first educate myself more on that topic while at it. The benefits of dual core, as I have gathered, is smooth operation in multitasking to put it shortly. Feel free to add more input, if you have hands-on experience with dual core machines. Do you predict dual cores would get a siginificant boost from software developers within the lifespan of this rig? Then there is Conroe of course, how many months left till its expected launch date?

3. Yeah, I am well aware of the YMMV factor in overclocking. Luckily, I havnt promised him anything, and he isnt to inquisitive about that either. He is entrusting me everything as far as detailed part selection goes, and I assume the resposibility to get him the best deal.

4/5. I am (and he is, for that matter) all for bang for buck, and not really trying to cut corners everywhere. A good deal on a decent product was exactly what I was looking for, and that seems to fit my bill.

6. Agreed. There is always recycle & reuse factor, should he decide to upgrade in the relatively near future.

7. Totally makes sense. Silence doesnt seem to be one of his priorities, and he is no audio nut like myself. That $40 could well go towards the CPU or vid card or whatever. This is what I initially set my eyes on, but reselleratings tells me otherwise.

So here is what I have so far :

CPU: pick one from <3800x2, opteron 144/146, 3200+>
MB: Epox 9NPA+ Ultra for $95
GPU: Sapphire Radeon X1800XT 256MB for $220AR
PSU: FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX450-PN 450W $60.19
RAM: Patriot DDR500 (2x1gb) kit for $146
HS/FANs: Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 64 + 2x Yate Loon D12SL-12 120x25mm $45.37 shipped
HDD: whatever, maybe that 250gigger unless nothing better comes up
This loooks sweet, but I am not sure $92 is tax included price. No rebate to worry about is always a plus.

That brings the total up to 613.17 sans the CPU.

He probably owns a DVD burner already, if not I would just throw in one of my spare DVD drives. I wont be back till late at nite, hopefully we would get more responses by then.

EDIT : I forgot I had a zalman 7700AlCu lying around somewhere after I upgraded my rig to Scythe Ninja. There are some old nidecs from my scrapped watercooling project, I could throw those in as freebies I guess.

 

[konakona]

ok, I went back and did some more reading.

Since this guy isnt afraid of overclocking, would 805D be a better choice? I am still trying to weigh out the benefits of dual core and single core performance. With X1800XT overclocked, would you see appreciable performance difference in the most gfx intensive games? Are they still predominantly GPU bounded at high rez / high quality filtering?

All this confusion basically stems from the fact that I could just tell him to wait for Conroe if it is going to be a dual core anyway; the only justification for getting something now would be that Conroe would still be expensive compared to single core processors, given they perform about the same in nominal high rez gaming situation.

 

[alimoalem]

1. i have had no experience with a dual-core, personally, but what you said basically sums it up. as for the software developers creating things that would greatly benefit from dual-core systems, there are currently some multithreaded applications out. i'm not sure how long your friend intends to keep this system but i assume it should last at least 2 years. by that time dual-cores should perform much better compared to the single-cores but he can upgrade at that time. there's no urgent need for him to do it now, or even this year for that matter.

2. your calculations seem a little off. i think you forgot to factor in the costs of the HS/FANs section. with that it'll come to $658.56. i would go with a single-core if his budget truly is $800. most games are gpu limited but if he's playing at a low enough resolution to be cpu limited, he probably will enough FPS not to be bothered by it.

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: alimoalem
1. i have had no experience with a dual-core, personally, but what you said basically sums it up. as for the software developers creating things that would greatly benefit from dual-core systems, there are currently some multithreaded applications out. i'm not sure how long your friend intends to keep this system but i assume it should last at least 2 years. by that time dual-cores should perform much better compared to the single-cores but he can upgrade at that time. there's no urgent need for him to do it now, or even this year for that matter.

2. your calculations seem a little off. i think you forgot to factor in the costs of the HS/FANs section. with that it'll come to $658.56. i would go with a single-core if his budget truly is $800. most games are gpu limited but if he's playing at a low enough resolution to be cpu limited, he probably will enough FPS not to be bothered by it.

well I had that figure at first, but see my litttle edit at the end
so my question still stands : would OC'd opty144 be about equal as 805D, assuming average overclocking on both parts and games played at high res? If so, it would probably make more sense to get him a cheap dual core instead.

 

[Bobthelost]

The opty would be faster in all likelyhood for single threaded programs, it does depend on the speeds you get from it, but either way a single core opteron @ 2.5Ghz is far more computing power than is needed.

Dont' get a dual core A64, the extra expense is not worth it for gaming.

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: Bobthelost
The opty would be faster in all likelyhood for single threaded programs, it does depend on the speeds you get from it, but either way a single core opteron @ 2.5Ghz is far more computing power than is needed.

Dont' get a dual core A64, the extra expense is not worth it for gaming.

But all these talks of dual core requirement for coming days made me kinda think. Besides, monarch's last coupon expired... Tankguys list 144 and 146 at $184.32 and $226.00 respectively,k but the 144 is backordered

To reiterate, this is somewhat awkward time to build a system with conroe launch just a few months ahead. Then, of course, the question is whether you would be able to build a much better performing conroe based box a few month later with the same budget constraint ($800 tops, preferrably lower) without any major compromises. Even then, would it really make difference in future gaming situations? From the numbers I have seen so far, things seem GPU-bounded by and large, which makes conroe only good for its dual core factor. If he is going single core, might as well pull the trigger now and use it right? Yeah, there could be price cuts but oh well

 

[konakona]

So the question still stands. Choices are :
1) get a opteron 144/146 now and OC to 2.6+. Is tankguys pretty much the best place to get them from?
2) get 805D now. Would it really be slower in normal gaming situations with a x1800xt?
3) wait for the conroe. This seems to be the best approach longevity-wise, but then these might not fit the bit even with the aggressive pricing.