Need some recommendations for A Backup Solution

[leeland]

Background info:

CLIFF NOTES:
1. Asked by my dad to evaluate a friends backup setup
2. Looked at it and it has some flaws (USB disk attached directly to PC)
3. Recommended an off site backup solution with a NAS stand alone unit with backup across the network for DR purposes
4. Looking for recommendations for inexpensive alternative


My fathers friend who runs a small auto repair shop and does all his own invoicing on a desktop PC and an application called something like "InvoMax"

Anyways, I was curious and asked him how he was "backing up" his important data because he has basically a POS walmart PC for the computer in his shop...which in my opinion didn't look to reliable.

He replied that he had some tech guy come out and install a USB external hard drive to the PC and it "backs up" his important data...

I was like...ok...and was curious...so I snooped around. He basically has the 500 GB USB drive hooked to the PC and has a "WEEKLY" scheduled task that backs up a couple directories...

My dad's friend probably got charged out the nose for this setup...he is using roughly 2 gb's of the drive (WASTE OF MONEY).

I believe the most important stuff is the files for this InvoMAX program as that houses all his customers info...ect.

The code in the scheduled job looks like a DOS prompt file copy...ect. Copy DriveA\DirectoryA to DiveB\DirectoryB (I couldn't really make out the syntax as it was all jumbled together and looked like a mess to maintain! which was probably by design)

So I asked him how he would "restore/recover" from a failed hard drive...computer meltdown...Fire...ect.

He has a blank look on his face . I said to him...it does you NO good to have the USB drive hooked right to this PC...the list of issues could be endless...Fire, Electrical short, Virus...ect.

I recommended a stand alone NAS on his small Home Network and that he could have a </Insert Backup Process/> copy files to the NAS off site (i.e. his home across the way via his small office/home network). So in the event he has a failure or mishap in his shop his important shop data will be safe to some degree on his NAS (off site in his home).

This person isn't techy AT ALL...so I will be setting this up initially and trying to do remote support. I want to keep the cost down as much as possible so I don't need anything outside of rock solid availability from the unit and it to be "MAYBE" do FTP...

What would be the best NAS option for him...I was hoping to keep the entire cost under $400. He will only need at most an 80 gig SATA drive (and that is over kill in itself).

I personally own the QNAP TS-209 and love it...I haven't studied much up on other NAS units...

I just need something that is VERY stable, has a simple interface and limited extras like the possibility of FTP.

THANKS in advance for any advice...if you have any additional questions please let me know...I am writing this fast.

Lee

 

[RebateMonger]

The SIMPLEST solution would be to buy or build a Windows Home Server. HP's version, with a 500 GB hard drive, is about $550. This device will automatically make ongoing full backups of any PCs on the network (up to 10). You can restore the entire PC in case of a hard drive crash or contamination, or can restore ongoing versions of any files on the PC.

I'm a firm believer in keeping FULL system backups of PCs. I've seen too many people lose important data by only making partial backups. A common mistake is to forget to back up emails. A FULL system backup prevents this, as well as allowing a full recovery in case of hard drive failure. The built-in Windows NTBackup program can do this, although doing a full (bare metal) recovery is a bit long.

Otherwise, buy a high-end backup program like Acronis True Image or ShadowProtect Workstation and keep ongoing images of the PC hard drives. That type of software is about $80 for workstations.

It's definitely a great idea to keep some backup copies offsite. If you want offsite backups, I recommend the purchase of at least three removable hard drives for backups. Two are kept offsite and one is kept connected (onsite). The drives are swapped as appropriate (maybe once a week?). Doing this ensures that three weeks of backups are normally available, and that at least one drive is always offsite, even on drive-changing day.

 

[leeland]

I thought about something like this...however I don't think this is the route the person will want to take...their will be no one to "maintain" this setup outside of myself...and that isn't something I wanted to begin with.

I guess I couldn't let the current setup go without saying "something". I had mentioned to my father "whom is still stuck in the Windows 98 era" about Windows Home Server because he speaks to the other guys "tech Level"

It about blew my dad's mind.

The only thing this PC in his shop is used for is for this InvoMax invoicing application...anything else on there isn't critical as far as I can tell (i.e. Word, excel...)

In an ideal environment with someone that had the drive and understanding of what is going on I would definitely recommend your solution.

I guess I am looking at it from a simplified way of getting off the USB drive and to something outside of his shop on a NAS that will just sit there always on take up minimal space and a simplified menu setup vs. having to get a whole new system and teach him or my dad how to maintain it

 

[JackMDS]

As Rebate monger posted above, it is much more secure in a case like this to backup the whole PC especially when dealing with a property program.

Since it is a running business a daily backup is needed. Doing it through the Internet to Home connection and Home NAS cab too slow and unreliable. So I would Not count solely on such system.

The easiest would be a Good solid External drive install Acronis True image Home Edition on the Billing computer, and set to backup automatically toward the end of the day.

Make sure that the work computer has No unnecessary stuff and a small software footprint Acronis Trueimage is fast and compresses down the backup by 40%. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16832200004

At the end of the day the External Drive can be stored in a small Fireproof Box/Safe, or taken home by the owner. If you really want extra you can set (as mentioned) above A Windows Home Server at Home and let it store a second s backup through the Internet to the Home server.

 

[leeland]

Originally posted by: JackMDS
As Rebate monger posted above, it is much more secure in a case like this to backup the whole PC especially when dealing with a property program.

Since it is a running business a daily backup is needed. Doing it through the Internet to Home connection and Home NAS cab too slow and unreliable. So I would Not count solely on such system.

The easiest would be a Good solid External drive install Acronis True image Home Edition on the Billing computer, and set to backup automatically toward the end of the day.

Make sure that the work computer has No unnecessary stuff and a small software footprint Acronis Trueimage is fast and compresses down the backup by 40%. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16832200004

At the end of the day the External Drive can be stored in a small Fireproof Box/Safe, or taken home by the owner. If you really want extra you can set (as mentioned) above A Windows Home Server at Home and let it store a second s backup through the Internet to the Home server.

A couple questions and a comment...

EDIT: Just to clarify this person has a HOME and a SHOP. They are about 150 feet from each other and are wired together via CAT5. In the shop he has the router and his DSL modem.

PC 1 (In The Shop runs his InvoMax application) Always on even when no one is on it.
PC 2 (Is his home PC for screwing off and doing what ever) Usually off until he jumps on it

I think there was some miscommunication on my part about this...


1. Acronis seems like an excellent option...something that I didn't think of obviously...

I am going to assume that when you install it initially you run through some sort of recovery setup process that builds a recovery process (similar to Norton Ghost)? So when a drive fails or something all you have to do is put in a new drive and the recovery disc should take over for you

2. Why would you say the home network connection could be unreliable? Assuming the only thing going on would be the backup...SEE EDIT above

3. In the Acronis application does it have any type of "notification" that the incremental backup failed ect? I would hate to have something like this set up and not know for a week, month...that the incremental backup is failing.


I really like this idea of getting the whole PC backed up, however when it comes time to do an actual restore (failed Drive...virus...ect)

Is it as simple as popping in some recovery CD and pointing it to the networked drive?


Thanks again guys for the help...

Lee

 

[kevnich2]

I would go with an external NAS or USB drive in the person's home and install Acronis True Image on the work machine. Schedule a task to run a complete system backup on Sunday, then differential backups every other day. Also, schedule another job that just backs up the files themselves every night. Tell the person to leave his home PC turned on during the day so that the backups run ok. If you really want a good protected system, go with 2 rotating USB drives and rotate them weekly and keep one in a safe. Keep in mind, if there is a fire that takes out the shop and the house, the backups will only be as good as the ones in the safe though. But asking someone like that to constantly put drives in a safe every night is a bit unrealistic (they'll forget all the time).

 

[JackMDS]

Acronis after the installation let you create a Boot CD.

You create the CD and if need to restore you boot from this CD.

The application would boot up and it is network smart. I.e., it would detect any other computer/hard drive that is connected via the Network or installed on the PC (like external or secondary HD).

You point the HD with the backup Files and it would Restore the HD.

Since the two locations are connected there is No need for Internet intervention.

There are stand alone NAS' that can be put on the network. The inexpensive one are slow and not very reliable, Thus (as Rebate Monger mentioned) my personal preference is to use an old P-III with Wn200 or XP Pro as a NAS, or Windows Home Server.

If you can use Seagate or Maxtor Drive, Acronis True Image is Freely available from Seagate (It is called Disk Wizard),

You can also download from Acronis a trial version.

Or with all of the free help that you get here , you can splurge $29 at NewEgg.

Whether it works for the Shop or Not TrueImage is one of the util thta always good to have in the toolbox.

P.S. I have nothing to do with Acronis, but their software is Really Good.

 

[boomerang]

I am far from an expert in this but, I feel I must insert my $.02. I'm not disagreeing with anything here, just adding or in some cases supporting what's already been said.

My wife is the manager of a small business. Through the years I have tried various backup methods. All have failed. Mostly because they needed intervention by human beings. By that I mean herself and her co-workers.

There are 3 computers at the office. All running 2 to 3 pieces of software that used shared database files. These files are extremely important to running the business.

For the price it takes to throw a box together (not much then, as now), I went ahead and built a "server" for the office. On the cheap, running XP Pro. NAS boxes were not in the mainstream during this time frame.

We'd had problems with HD failures (remember the deathstars?) so that was a priority. I did a RAID 1 partitioned for C:, the OS and S:, the shared files. HD's are cheap, so I added a third for backup purposes. Using Acronis, I have scheduled backups to this third drive for the C: partition (for a quick restore in case something really stupid happens with the RAID array) and the S: partition for all the data files. Acronis has worked flawlessly in this regard. I originally put this drive in a removable rack, but they would rarely remove it and store it in the safe at night.

So, still being concerned with Fire and mostly Theft as the shop is in a remote area and after much convincing on my part, my wife reluctantly agreed to go with online backup. We use datadepositbox.com. It costs her slightly over $2 a month. Yes, that's right, $2. Only the contents of the S: (data) partition are backed up online.

We also tried tape, CD's, and DVD's for off-site backup and they would not consistently do what was required. Online backup solved those problems for good. The added bonus is that I can access those files from home when needed as I make minor changes to her "primary" piece of software, a database program written in Microsoft Access. (A lot of their problems are due to "creative" data entry.) It's actually easier for me than to RDP in to the "server".

Hope this is of some value to the discussion.

Edit: I don't know the true nature of how serious the problems are that have been discovered with WHS, but it's something you might want to research before going in that direction. http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2164439&enterthread=y

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: boomerang
Edit: I don't know the true nature of how serious the problems are that have been discovered with WHS, but it's something you might want to research before going in that direction. http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2164439&enterthread=y

There have been no reported problems with using Windows Home Server FOR BACKUPS. The data file corruption problem occurs in files located in shared folders with more than one hard drive in the drive pool.

 

[leeland]

Thanks guys for all the tips, help and info...

I presented the case to my dad regarding a NAS unit (preferably a decent one) which will live in his home...and have the backup process discussed above using Acronis from his Workshop PC....


I also recommened to get a decent AV software since he uses the Free AVG software...I have read some good things about the new NOD32 3.0...

or would there be a better recommendation?

BitDefender?

Kaspersky?

I used the AOL version of Kaspersky and thought it did a great job...

Thanks a bunch!