Need Some Opinions Regarding Computer Gaming From People Who Know More Than Me

Dec 19, 2008
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So I've decided to get into computer gaming, and obviously to start I need to build a computer gaming system. Now, I've been playing games on consoles for years, but I'm completely new to the PC gaming scene, and as a result I know nothing about building a gaming rig. I want to point out that this rig is solely for games since I already have a Black Macbook for schoolwork, music, etc... So far I've researched a lot to try and find out what I want to get, but its very difficult as I'm sure most of you know. By far the most difficult aspect is finding out how much money I'm willing to spend on this thing versus the performance I'll be getting out. I was hoping a couple of you guys/girls who know a lot about computer gaming and high level systems could give me some advice.

Let me tell you a little bit about myself and my financial situation. I'm a busy senior in high school, and at the moment I work only on Sundays and make a measly $50-70 per week. I've got about $2500 saved up in the bank and its slowly increasing every week. Now I know its a crazy decision, but I decided that I really wanted to reward myself for a lot of hard work I've done this year by going all out and spending everything I have on video games, the major portion going towards building a gaming computer.

So now that you know my financial situation let me tell you a little bit about my intentions. Like I said, I'm going all out on this thing and would like to get as good as I can of a gaming rig. I would love (even though it might be a little out of reach) to be able to max out every game I play (including Crysis Warhead, again I know its a little out of reach). I want to have a high-end gaming rig that people are jealous of (I don't know how to put that nicer). I'm a kid who loves games and loves the latest and greatest technology, but my parents never cared for that stuff too much. Now that I have a little financial freedom, I really want to go all out (sorry I keep saying that). In addition, I not only want a high-end gaming rig for right now, but one that lasts me a long time (this includes occasional system upgrades). I'm in it for the long haul when it comes to gaming.

Now that you know a little bit about my situation, I want to know what you guys think about my plan. Is it ridiculous? Is there no way I can get a jaw-dropping system for the amount of money I have? Is it really all that worth it to get such a great system for gaming (remember, I'm what you'd consider a hardcore gamer and I like to get the most of my gaming experiences)? If you think it is, should I save up a little more money, or can I get by with what I have?

Answers to these questions or and comments to a brand new computer gamer would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance to anyone who helps me out!
 

mpilchfamily

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2007
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Are you really wanting to put ittogether yourself or would you rather have a prebuilt system that will have warenties? I would recomend going with a prebuilt system.
 
Dec 19, 2008
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Originally posted by: mpilchfamily
Are you really wanting to put ittogether yourself or would you rather have a prebuilt system that will have warenties? I would recomend going with a prebuilt system.

I'm pretty willing to build it myself. I don't mind the work (I think it might be kind of fun), I like knowing exactly whats going into my system, and from what I've heard its a lot cheaper. At the same time I'm not ruling out buying a pre-built system. If the benefits of a pre-built system outweigh building your own I'd consider it.

Thanks for the input.
 

mpilchfamily

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2007
3,559
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Generally its not cheaper to build your own. But you get a better overall system and know what your working with when you build it yourself.
 

MalVeauX

Senior member
Dec 19, 2008
653
176
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Heya,

A little something a wrote the other week elsewhere, but it's current and still applies. I focus on machines with a budget because the computer hardware scene and software scene changes so fast, it seems silly to overspend on brand new tech that isn't even widely supported or in the focus of the media you're running on it anyways. That said, you can build very strong gaming computers in the $700~$1500 ranges. Note, a computer that is only $1000 can easily do just about the same as a $4000 computer when it comes to gaming. There's a cutt off point in games where you just don't get anything more out of having more performance. So, if you have a rig that can play basically all the games you want to play at high resolution (whatever the native or highest resolution is of your display device, either LCD, CRT or even HDTV) and at the quality settings you prefer (ie, maximum textures, shadows, other fun features enabled and maxed out), then you are set and you don't need more. The concept of `future proofing' is also an endless battle to keep up with software (games). It too is not worth it because as software changes, hardware needs to follow. And it all just goes faster and faster every year. We're at the end of DX10 right now, which requires Vista. Within a year or so, we'll be looking at DX11 which means new GPU tech and hardware. It just goes this fast. So instead of overspending, lets look at things you can get for a good price that will boss around today's great games, and tomorrow's.

Source of the following content: My previous post @ another forum



To help dispell things that may be misleading, a gaming machine really isn't all that different from a normal computer. The difference comes down to the synergy between the components. But, it does not take the absolute latest technology to run these games well. In fact, 3 year old technology still plays todays demanding games (like Crysis) with ease. It all comes down to what you're using and how it works with the other parts--and that's synergy.

Just some notes: budget refers to it being affordable. But gaming means it's not going to be entry level on every component; there will be minimums.

See, gaming machines don't need certain things, and budget systems usually lack what it takes to be a good gaming machine. Mainly, that comes down to the graphics card. Modern games run fine on any old dual core these days. But the newest titles don't run great on just any old videocard. And even more noticeable is that you can't turn on all the eye candy and use higher resolutions in these games on just any old videocard. If you have a big display or you game on an HD capable television (which you can, if you didn't know, just like a console system, at high res!), you'll want those higher resolutions, antialaising, filtering, large textures, etc. They make the new games look so much better. And that's one of the reasons most of us even use PCs for gaming, rather than a console.



Basic minimums and suggestions when it comes to a gaming machine (as of Nov, 2008):

CPU:

Any Dual Core will essentially work for a gaming machine. There is a difference in some titles when it comes to a more powerful CPU (like a Quadcore, or the new i7 and Dragon chips), but we're talking about exclusive titles (like Crysis for example) where building around one game is not wise. The performance difference in your games between a 2.6ghz dual core and a 3.3ghz dual core is insignificant unless using a very high end graphics card or SLI/Crossfire setup. The majority of games are already going to run so blazingly fast and easy with all the bells and whistles on, due to your powerful Graphics Cards, that you won't notice the difference on the CPU side of things. What to take form this is that yes, more powerful CPU's will yield more performance, but that doesn't mean you need them to play your games at higher settings. This is one of the biggest places money is lost in a gaming machine, overspending on more CPU than you actually need. It's good to get as high as you can afford, but there's a limit where you pass over the affordable stuff that performs well, and enter into the expensive stuff that doesn't perform all that much different. And something to always keep in mind is that overclocking is available and you can squeeze more out of cheaper solutions that way, simply by adding a decent but cheap cooling sollution. The best overclocking CPUs are those with unlocked modifiers, which in Intel terms usually results in the term "extreme" and in AMD terms, usually results in the term "black edition."

Minimum CPU: any Dual Core!

Suggestions: AMD5000+ (2.6ghz dual core), AMD6000+ (3.0ghz dual core). If you can get a black edition of either of these CPUs, you're in business. Very cheap and fantastic gaming performance. There's no need to spend twice the money on an Intel equivalent. The Intel equivalent will perform a little better, but not worth twice the price.

Quadcore systems can be had for cheap. There are two awesome chips for the price that can be had in a gaming machine on the cheap side of things. Quadcores at their base clock are actually not much better, and often times worse than a higher clocked dual core when it comes to games (due to games not all supporting multicores like this quite yet, but more will as time goes by). The two chips to look at are the Intel Q6600 and the AMD 9850 Black Edition. Both are highly overclockable. The Q6600 is more difficult to overclock because it has a locked CPU modifier (at 9x) which means you can only overclock it by increasing the FSB speed (which also effects your RAM timings, and thus requires all parts of the system to be tweaked or it will be unstable). The 9850 black edition has an unlocked modifier however, meaning, you can overclock it without having to change any other parts of your system or worry about timings. You can just clock it up an additional 400mhz to 600mhz on base air cooling just by setting it's clock modifier to 15x for example; so long it's properly cooled, it'll be stable and the rest of your system won't be affected by the overclock (much easier, less stability problems). Cost wise, the AMD setup actually rings in a bit cheaper now (due to motherboards costing less on AMD's side of things). Both require better motherboards for the overclocks, but it's well worth it if you want a mid-range to near high-end gaming machine but still keeping it on the cheaper side of things. The Quadcore systems will generally run you around $1,000 for a good gaming machine with the proper components simply with the more potent CPU power.

Suggested: The AMD 9850 Black Edition Phenom (125watt) and a 3rd party cooler (MaxOrb comes to mind). Here at CyberPower, it's only $130 more than a Dualcore system with the exact same components, but you get an easy to overclock Quadcore instead. Highly recommended. And this is a high end CPU.

Graphics Card:

The most critical component of your gaming machine is the graphics card. This is where we do not get the cheapest thing that `works' but rather the best performer in it's price range. This changes constantly as prices fluctuate rapidly. However, certain cards will simply always be the best performer for their cost. There's a difference between budget cards and muscle cards and the aboslute most high end cards. We want muscle cards. They're the best bang for the buck. ATI & nVidia are your choices here, and neither are `better' than the other strictly.

ATI: The minimum card you shoot look at from ATI is the HD4850. For the money, anything less is a waste. You do not need the 1gig version, get the 512mb version (which is about $130, $119 currently at NewEgg). No other single card in it's price range can beat it. If you need something less costly in your gaming machine, consider not building a gaming machine and go console. At the $200 range, the HD4870 finally is available (NewEgg). Again, go with what you can afford, so if you can actually get the HD4870, go for it. It's a great card. The HD4870x2 is the beastiest card from ATI at this moment, but it comes at a price that is not reasonable (close to $500) for the performance gain--it's overkill on the majority of games (meaning, it will not make any noticable difference compared to the HD4850 in most games), and the few that it does outperform everything in a noticable way, are not worth spending this much money on in the first place (ie, Crysis). Do not bother with any card under the HD4850 (ie, nothing below this number, ATI has an easy to follow card name progression, if the card's number is less than 4850, do not bother with it). If you do, consider this: many motherboards come with an onboard video chipset, the Radeon 3200/3300. This chipset will play WoW and other games just fine, and it comes on the motherboard already. So if you're truly looking for the cheapest sollution for simple games like that, save your money and use a motherboard chipset. But if you ever plan to play future games and current games with higher graphical demands; the HD4850 is the minimum, and a great card. Go for the HD4870 if you can swing the extra cost. Above that, and you're not on a budget anymore.

nVidia: Here, we have a larger specturm of cards because nVidia released a lot of budget cards and then slapped their flagship card from each release series. To make it simple, we'll just list the minimum muscle cards that are recommended. The 8800GT is the old muscle card and is still worth buying today. The 9800GT is the exact same card, rereleased. Literally, the same card. These cards still pump out the performance in today's demanding titles, like Crysis. That's testament as to how powerful they are, even being 2~3 years old. For example, at $89 retail for the 9800GT @ TigerDirect, this is one of the best performance cards per cost, especially if you're considering SLI as an option for high resolution gaming. Beyond this, the next step is the GTX260. For the money, the GTX260 is the best performer per cost. It recent hit the $200ish area @ NewEgg. The current flaship is the GTX280, and it is a powerful card, but you pay for it, and it's actually not significantly (read: real world noticably) faster than the GTX260 in current tites. Do not go below the 9800gt or 8800gt, ie, do not bother with the 9600, 9400, 8600 nor 8400. Do not buy those cards. So for the money, the 9800GT is your minimum buy, and the GTX260 is the recommended.

HDD:

The hard drive is way too often neglected when it comes to a gaming computer. On a casual machine, any modern drive will work perfectly. But in a gaming machine, everything is stored on the drive, accesed from the drive, and games per-load most of their content: hence their loading screens. Hard drive technology in terms of speed has not changed hardly at all over the past decade, while the other components have changed drastically over the years in speed. There are two very popular and easy options to address here though, and that's RAID0 (minimum) and Raptor. For the money, RAID0 is the best performance option. However, if you can afford the Raptor series drives (10,000rpm drives), they are faster per drive. Note that you can RAID0 with Raptors, to have the fastest consumer level drives--though it is very costly, and not recommended. A note on why RAID0 is faster and why it's cheaper. RAID0 takes a minimum of 2 drives, but has no maximum other than it's controller's maximum (and you won't be using more than 3 or 4 drives anyways, most folk just use 2 drives, and this is perfectly fine). RAID0 works by taking two or more drives and separates the data across the drives. Each drive works independently of the other, but to the system, they work as "one drive." Because the drives do separate work at the same time, the result is much faster performance. You will get noticable load time decreases in games. This is especially important in online games where timing and loading is critical.

Suggested minimum is to get RAID0 with two drives. The actual capacity (storage size) is up to you. For a gaming machine, you don't need 1tb for example. Anything in the 160gig to 500gig should be perfectly fine. If you don't want to deal with RAID, the Raptor is the next recommended minimum. A single Raptor will do. The 150gig version is perfectly good for the money. The thing to take from this part is never to get just a single 7200rpm normal drive. RAID0 or Raptor minimum.

The Rest: Everything else you choose will not have as much of an impact on performance. The rest is essentially what will tie these components together. Having a good power supply, good motherboard (one that will allow you to update components for example) and a solid amount of RAM (2 gigs is fine, but 4 gigs is better, and more is always better anwyays in memory), etc, will all be easy to keep cheap and still have a great performance computer for gaming.

Notes on SLI and CrossFire:

SLI and CrossFire are options for enthusiasts who are willing to spend twice the money on their videocards by purchasing two of them (identical) in order to get more performance from this option. This is actually not cost effective for the most part. But, depending on what kind of gaming you will be doing, is a real option and great for some application. The minimum requirements for SLI and CrossFire though assume the following:

1. Do you have a high resolution monitor or HD tv? If so, SLI and CrossFire are an option for you. High resolution suggests resolutions above 1600x1200 and more likely upwards of 1920x1080, or 1080i/p if referring to a TV. If you game at lower resolutions than this on your display device, you will not receive hardly any gain in SLI or CrossFire and thus should not waste your money on it. But, if you do game at these resolutions, SLI and CrossFire can have large impacts and let you game at these high resolutions with all the quality settings pumped up.

2. Power Supply has to support the power requirements of the cards. The HD4850 and 9800GT for example only require a single 6 pin power connection from the PSU, so a PSU with 2 x 6pin connectors will work for SLI or CrossFire on these cards. However, the moment you jump up to the HD4870, GTX260, and other cards between, you'll notice they require two 6 pin connectors each, which means two of these cards would need four total 6 pin power connectors. So pay attention to this when selecting a PSU. Just because something says it's SLI/Crossfire ready, even Quad ready, doesn't mean it will actually work on every set of cards. There are definite connection requirements that you must meet in order for it to work.

Finally, note that not all games will actually benefit from SLI and CrossFire in a dramatic way, and in fact, some will actually perform worse. This is due to coding and drivers essentially. But know that the majority of modern games benefit from SLI and CrossFire at high resolutions.



What to take home from this:

In the $700~900 range, look at the following for a good gaming machine:

CPU: AMD6000+
4gigs of DDR2 800 RAM
GPU: HD4870 or GTX260

You'll game on everything with that core system perfectly fine, with room to grow in the future when you need it (if you feel the need).

If you want to jump up into the $1200~1500 range and get more power:

CPU: AMD9850BE or Intel Q6600
4gigs of DDR2 1066 RAM
GPU: HD4870x2 or GTX295

That system will have you play any game, maxed out, with all settings maxed out, and at the highest res your display can muster. It's absolute overkill for about 90% of the games out there, even latest releases. But it will boss future games around just fine too.

Note: It's absolutely cheaper to build it yourself with a website like NewEgg than to get the same thing prebuilt for you. If a prebuilt system has the same exact stuff you can get from NewEgg for a cheaper price, it's because those parts are likely repacked used things or they `fell off a truck.' That, and NewEgg's return policies are absolute top notch; no fear buying from NewEgg.

Very best,
 
Dec 19, 2008
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Originally posted by: MalVeauX
CPU: AMD9850BE or Intel Q6600
4gigs of DDR2 1066 RAM
GPU: HD4870x2 or GTX295

That system will have you play any game, maxed out, with all settings maxed out, and at the highest res your display can muster. It's absolute overkill for about 90% of the games out there, even latest releases. But it will boss future games around just fine too.

Thanks a lot for all that information. This is a post I made that outlines what I had planned out as of right now: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2259325&enterthread=y So what you're saying is if I downgraded to your CPU and RAM I wouldn't see a difference in performance? As I stated before, this isn't just a one time fling with computer gaming. Computer gaming is something I plan on partaking in for a very long time, so I am indeed looking towards the future. So if I'm correct I should switch out my CPU and RAM to save some cash and plan on upgrading a couple years down the road? Keep in mind that I'm always down for saving $500, but I don't mind spending the extra if it makes the difference now or in the future.

Thanks for all the help.
 

MalVeauX

Senior member
Dec 19, 2008
653
176
116
Heya,

Well, there's more to PC gaming than just the core system. And rankly, a $2,000 machine will not do much more than a $1,000 machine with appropriate components. Again, as posted above, specific things are needed and the rest just builds on that. A strong GPU with a solid CPU will be all you need. Look at benchmarks. You can build a system that plays your games at whatever res and quality settings you like with a good average of 60fps, which is ideal for intense gaming. Or, you could spend thousand more and get something to double that FPS to 120 for example at the same settings... and you will not even notice that difference. Below 30fps, you can see the frame rate difference. Above 30fps, you can't really see it. At 60fps and higher, you won't notice a difference between 60fps and 1,000fps (at that point, the only thing you would see is the actual refresh rate of your display unable to actually refresh the image fast enough to sync with the frames being fed to it, and you'd see a slight flicker or invisible line panning down during a high motion portion of a game). So again, go to the benchmarks (here, or google them) and see for yourself which games and what hardware pushing them for specific rates. Again, above 60 fps at your desired res/settings, and you're just wasting money on the hardware. And why I say waste: because a new game will come out, or a new API (like directx), etc, all the time, and keep you on your upgrading toes constantly. PC gaming isn't about `future proofing' -- that's impossible. Instead, it's about keeping up with the software and the API requirements for your personal tastes in res/image quality.

Now, aside from that, there's the cost of a good display (OR TWO), good gaming mouse/keyboard/etc. Good headset. Good speakers if you prefer. A lot of games require information to be present to you at all times. That's where that 2nd display comes in handy. Not so much for FPS games, but for other games, having access to the web on a 2nd display is completely worth it if you're doing this competitively and often. And good periphreals will set you back. Will you love a mouse? Maybe for a while. You may want a new keyboard as you game and figure out what you like, dislike, etc. We have choice on computers for these things, unlike consoles. So you don't have to just deal with a crappy feeling input device. You can change it up--and likely will. Big time PC gaming involves headset use likely, for team speak/vent/etc for multiplayer if you get into it (likely will). Cheap stuff sounds cheap. You will likely want some quality. All these things come together, adding the cost up. Next up is the cost of the games themselves.

If you look at the charts, a good competitive machine doesn't need to be the highest performer. It needs to be the smartest performer. Ie, performs at the settings you want/need, with room to spare, but not so much room that you're wasting it. Hence the suggestions I made, especially the Quadcore suggestions I made (and the overclocking option on said Quadcores I mentioned). Same about the graphics cards I mentioned.

Note: In your link, the computer you planned out is pretty much a very good high end gaming rig. But note, that CPU and GPU are basically overkill for almost all the games on the market, short of 3 or 4 titles that are notoriously poorly coded or just too strenuous (Crysis, World in Conflict, etc) at their max res with 4x and 8x AA settings. Crysis cripples two HD4870x2's even without the average getting very high over that 30's & 40's mark. That's pathetic, for $1,000 worth of video equipment. What I'm saying is, research the games you want to play--there's hardware that will game at it's highest settings for a lot cheaper than what you've listed out.

Saving $500 is the difference between getting two displays, nice headsets, etc, and room to buy more games, etc, as time goes by. It's also money saved towards another GPU in the future, or different input devices that suit you better.

It's your money; so get what you can afford and are willing to pay for.

My last shpeal on the whole thing is that folk tend to spend thousands on their machine, and then totally neglect that the entire power box just shows up displaying on some tiny little display monitor that they cheapskate the thing through. I'd rather spend a bit less on the computer (but still get a ferocious gaming machine) so that I can enjoy a huge display and a rip roaring 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound system while gaming (or headset if you need it to be discrete, such as living with others sensitive to the sound of non-stop-gun fire, lol). So instead of getting a $250 22" LCD to view your $1650 machine's produced material on, you could instead be looking at a 42" 1080p filling your field of vision and emerging you into the game like no other.

For example....
Again, an example...
Yet another example...

So go with your gut.

Based on what you were willing to spend ($2,000). I would rather build a nice $1200 machine and get a bitching big screen 1080p HDTV and some surround sound (or nice headset) and a 2nd monitor on the side (I use a 22" LCD on the side, as well as my 15" laptop during gaming, so that I can do all kinds of tasks, without switching OUT of my game).

Very best,
 

MalVeauX

Senior member
Dec 19, 2008
653
176
116
Heya,

For example, from NewEgg right now:

Core computer & case:

Motherboard @ $188
Monsterous PSU @ $100
Great fast RAM @ $49
Highly overclockable Quadcore @ $160
Fantastic cooling sollution for the Overclock @ $45
HD4870x2 @ $469
Great discrete Soundcard @ $85
DVD-R/RW SATA @ $29
Huge, Highquality Tower @ $130
WD 7200rpm 640gig HD @ $75 (get TWO for RAID0 1.3 terabytes @ $150)

OS:

Vista Home Premium 64 bit @ $99

Input:

Logitech G5 @ $47
Razor Lycosa Keyboard @ $80

Output:

Tritton 5.1 Headset @ $160
-OR-
Logitech Z-5500's @ $300

Display:

BenQ 24" 1920x1080, 10000:1 contrast @ $299
^ With:
22" 1680x1050 Acer 2nd Monitor @ $170

-OR-

A super sweet 32" 1080p HDTV @ $700
(combined with the Acer monitor from above for a 2nd monitor)



That's $1405 for the computer itself. Ready to overclock to a 3~3.4ghz quadcore beast with the fastest single GPU consumer level card available.

+$99 for the OS to operate the thing.
+$127 if you use the keyboard/mouse I selected.
+$150 for a really awesome headset, or +$300 for one of the best 5.1 speaker setups.
+$469 for a really nice dual monitor setup, or +$870 for the 32" HDTV and the 22" dual monitor setup.

$1781 if you go with the OS, keyboard/mouse I selected and the headset I selected.

$2250 if you go with the os/keyboard/mouse/headset/ and the dual monitor setup I selected.

$2651 if you go with the os/keyboard/mouse/headset and the HDTV and monitor dual monitor setup I selected.

$2400 if you go with the os/keyboard/mouse/5.1 speakers and dual monitors I selected.

$2801 if you go with the os/keyboard/mouse/5.1 speakers and HDTV and monitor dual monitor setup I selected.

-- See how much more you can go into your PC with just addons and nice things? I'd rather have a really nice multi-display setup than the latest CPU when really fast CPU's are more than capable and cheaper. I'd rather have awesome audio to bask in from a really good soundcard with some quality behind it, rather than some things that scratch out at high volume and can't handle base.

Anyhow, hopefully that gives you an idea. Based on the money you were willing to spend, I was able to configure a gaming system that will do it all AND have dual monitors and a quality headset for like $200 more than your initial setup--and we're talking about a bigger LCD (24") and a 2nd LCD at 22".

All you have to do is look around and shop a bit. But it's there, linked for you, as of today. So it's more than possible. Mostly free shipping too.

Very best,
 
Dec 19, 2008
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MalVeauX- Well it sounds like you really know what you're talking about, so I think I'm going to take your advice and downgrade my "machine" in order to upgrade other stuff. I just would like to clarify a few things though.

1) What is the HONEST difference between running something on max settings and running it on medium-high settings? Does it really take that much away from the game? The only computer game I've ever played was Age of Empires II like four years ago, so I really don't know much about the importance of graphics performance.

2) How much would one of your recommended displays cost? I'm considering going with a dual monitor system.

3) I'm getting Astro A40 Headphones w/ MixAmp for playing Xbox 360. Would you still recommend getting additional audio systems for my PC?

4) Sorry if you've already stated this, but I just want to clarify. In order to be a hardcore PC gamer who keeps up with technology, are you suggesting that every 2-4 years I just go through this process all over again? This process would be instead of maxing out my CPU, GPU, etc. right now, having to pay a lot more, and then having them become obsolete anyways.

5) This kind of goes with question 1), but lets say I had an AMD Phenom 9850 Black Edition w/ this GTX 260 http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814150330 would I still be able to enjoy a high demanding game (like Crysis Warhead) as much as with my previous choices? Maybe upgrade the GPU a little more...

I really appreciate all the help that you're giving.

EDIT: I started writing this before that last post of yours so I'm sorry if you just answered some of my questions. That's really an amazing priced system you've put together there and I can't explain how much I appreciate it. One thing though, are you saying getting a headset means I shouldn't bother with speakers? I'm already buying those Astro A40s (see #3 above), will those work good with PC gaming? Damn that HDTV is tempting.

Using what you gave me I'm going to try and put some research into what combos I'd like. I really can't explain how much I appreciate all this help. Thanks again MalVeauX, and thanks to anyone else who can help.
 

MalVeauX

Senior member
Dec 19, 2008
653
176
116
Heya,

Totally up to you; you be the judge my friend.

1) Look up screen shots. You be the judge. When I play, for example, Mass Effect at 1280x800 with no AA enabled and medium quality settings, it looks pretty bland, like some console game. But when I crank it to 1920x1080 with 4x AA enabled and maximum quality textures/effects/etc, the game looks like a cinematic movie. Graphics have changed tremendously from the days of AoE2 that you played (which was a 2d sprite based game). High resolution and quality settings with DX10 shader effects make for seriously breath taking games (those that actually have these settings of course, not all do!). When you play 3d games at low resolution and medium settings, some look ok, but the whole point of PC gaming other than the MMO's and FPS genre is to be able to have way more eye candy going on than a console can muster, at really high resolution (which consoles just don't do yet).

2) See the post above again; I've added a whole new slew of links and costs for you to digest. For about $500, you can get two really nice high res LCD displays. Multimonitor is the way to go if you're big into gaming, and in general, is just fantastic to have. Never miss a beat when you don't have to minimize your game to do something else real quick or to read something, or whatever. You'll discover PC gaming involves a lot of other multitasks as well (music, recording video if you like, managing team speak/vent softwares, loading websites, posting, looking up information, etc).

3) Headsets are fine. Just make sure you get something that sounds great and can handle intense audio and bass, and has a microphone. Or, get a really kick ass 5.1 or better speaker setup, like the one I listed above (the logitech z-5500). The A40's are perfectly fine.

4) Not the whole process. The beauty is, the big thing games need for updates are the GPU. So in a few years, you just plop in another HD4870x2 and Crossfire them, or you get whatever new super duper card is around. The rest of the system is still perfectly great and will push them for a long time. This is yet another reason why I was saying, don't overspend on your parts. You don't even need the HD4870x2 at nearly $500. You can get a normal HD4870 at $200 instead, and almost all games you play will play maxed out on res/settings (except a few notables, like Crysis, and possibly some new titles that are not released yet). And then later, instead of buying a new card, buy a 2nd HD4870 and crossfire them (net cost being less than $400 over a few years perhaps). Personally, I would rather do that (getting a single HD4870, instead of the x2, and just crossfiring later when titles demand it at my resolution settings).

5) Absolutely. Just note, Crysis is a very specific title that cant be made to perform perfect at super high settings (not even the absolute most powerful video setups of today can muster it at the highest settings at any kind of impressive FPS). So don't judge anything with Crysis. Focus on other recent games and upcoming games.



For example, here's the same system from above, saving over $300 just with a GPU swap (yet still able to play nearly every new game at top res/settings with room to spare) without any audio equipment (since you already want your A40's), focusing on the same parts and the same dual monitor setup and nice keyboard/mouse:

Asus M3A79-T @ $189
PC power & cooling S75QB 750w @ $99
OCZ Reaper DDR2 1066 4gigs @ $49
Phenom 9850 black edition (overlock!) @ $160
Zalman 9500A cooler @ $46
Saphire HD4870 @ $179
HT Omega Striker soundcard @ $85
Samsung DVD-R/RW @ $29
Cool Master Stacker 810 Full Tower @ 130
WD Caviar 640g 7200rpm 16mb Cache HDD @ $75 (2x is 1.3tb @ $150)
Mouse - Logitech G5 @ $46
Keyboard - Razor Lycosa @ $80
Vista Home Premium 64bit @ $99
Primary Display - BenQ 24" 1920x1080 @ $299
Secondary Display - Acer 22" 1680x1050 @ $170

Total for a bitching great setup with dual monitor and quality components all around (just lacking your headset): $1810 for the WHOLE thing, that's with the OS, with the dual monitors and with all the keyboard/mouse, etc.

Very best,
 
Dec 19, 2008
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MalVeauX- Yeah, see my edit above. I started writing that last post before seeing your previous one (if that makes sense).
 

MalVeauX

Senior member
Dec 19, 2008
653
176
116
Heya,

Saw your edit. If you use a headset, it's likely because others are around and you don't want to over power them with volume of your games, right? In that case, you don't need speakers--that's why you use a headset. Another reason to use a headset is simply to have audio and microphone together for sake of ease while gaming in multiplayer with others for hands-off microphone gaming for example. Should be fine with those A40's.

I have both a 22" monitor, and a 37" 1080p HDTV. I have to say, after gaming on the big screen, I can't believe I didn't shell out earlier. It's the kind of upgrade that lasts you as long as you play games (and doubles to play movies, browse, etc, all BIG too). I love sitting at my PC having a monster in front of me, showing all what my PC does for me, filling my view. And my 22", while gaming on my big screen, shows the maps and other stuff I pull up while playing my games so I can just peak over at a glance to keep a heads up on it. You know? Totally awesome immersion. Again, I'd rather save a bit on the computer so I can afford a tasty display. If you like consoles on a big screen, you'll drool over PC games on a big screen.

Otherwise, running two nice 24" and a 22" monitors is great too. In general, multi-head (dual monitor or more) is just so fantastic that once you start, you'll never look back and wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

And as mentioned, and shown, the prices for the performance needed is within your grasp. It doesn't take a $5,000+ dollar machine to do these jobs. You can game just as good as they can, without the wasted overhead power that you won't even make use of (but looks cool in your 3dmark06 benchmark scores.... *sigh, what a waste*), and instead, spend less money and have a way better overall experience in your games.... immersed in a huge display, muti-display, and all the speed you need to stay up there. It's just pure joy.

Note: respec'd another system above. Awesome gaming computer with dual monitors for less than $2,000... only $1800. And it's not cheap. It's actually got the goods with a great HD4870 powering those games. See benchmarks of the HD4870 if you want to see what it can do in modern games at various resolutions & settings. It's boss for sub $200.

Very best,
 
Dec 19, 2008
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Originally posted by: MalVeauX

For example, here's the same system from above, saving over $300 just with a GPU swap (yet still able to play nearly every new game at top res/settings with room to spare) without any audio equipment (since you already want your A40's), focusing on the same parts and the same dual monitor setup and nice keyboard/mouse:

Asus M3A79-T @ $189
PC power & cooling S75QB 750w @ $99
OCZ Reaper DDR2 1066 4gigs @ $49
Phenom 9850 black edition (overlock!) @ $160
Zalman 9500A cooler @ $46
Saphire HD4870 @ $179
HT Omega Striker soundcard @ $85
Samsung DVD-R/RW @ $29
Cool Master Stacker 810 Full Tower @ 130
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136218">WD Caviar 640g 7200rpm 16mb Cache HDD @ $75 (2x is 1.3tb @ $150)</a>
Mouse - Logitech G5 @ $46
Keyboard - Razor Lycosa @ $80
Vista Home Premium 64bit @ $99
Primary Display - BenQ 24" 1920x1080 @ $299
Secondary Display - Acer 22" 1680x1050 @ $170

Total for a bitching great setup with dual monitor and quality components all around (just lacking your headset): $1810 for the WHOLE thing, that's with the OS, with the dual monitors and with all the keyboard/mouse, etc.

Very best,

That's looking very appealing to me. I think my mom said we have already have Vista or something, so that might save me $100 (although I might be wrong). I was also looking into getting an expensive router which I can definitely afford thanks to your help. Thanks a bunch.
 
Dec 19, 2008
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If I use the Astro A40 Headset, will I only be able to listen to my 360 or PC one at a time. Like if I'm playing Halo and WoW (or whatever) at the same time I won't be able to hear one or the other, right? If this is the case maybe I should invest in some speakers for my PC to use when I'm on using my headset for my 360 simultaneously.

EDIT: But then again if I have a headset on I won't be able to hear the speakers anyways, so yeah. Basically having a headset limits me to audio from one or the other (which isn't a big deal).
 

MalVeauX

Senior member
Dec 19, 2008
653
176
116
Heya,

You're limited either way. If you could hear both games at the same time, would it help? Not likely. Too much sound clashing. It's like listening to two different songs side by side. You don't hear both, you tend to focus on one or the other, or back and forth between them. The headset will plug into a single device, so only one audio source at a time. If you want speakers for your computer, I whole heartedly suggest some good ones because cheap speakers don't allow your nice quality components to output their job to you. Good signal comes out as crap from cheap speakers. If the above Z-5500's are too expensive, check out the G1 (a step down) for $150.

Very best,
 

MalVeauX

Senior member
Dec 19, 2008
653
176
116
Originally posted by: FalconxxxPunch
Someone recommended getting a 10,000 rpm HD. What do you guys recommend for this system?

The WD Velociraptor is a 10,000 rpm drive and for a single drive sollution, it's very powerful (though has small capacity and is expensive). Two cheaper 7200rpm drives in RAID0 configuration have way more capacity and perform faster than that single 10,000rpm drive. Less money, more capacity, more performance. The trade off? Two drives work as one, instead of just one drive. But that's hardly a problem. Your case can hold quite a few HDD's after all. No biggie.

Very best,
 

palladium

Senior member
Dec 24, 2007
539
2
81
Originally posted by: MalVeauX




For example, here's the same system from above, saving over $300 just with a GPU swap (yet still able to play nearly every new game at top res/settings with room to spare) without any audio equipment (since you already want your A40's), focusing on the same parts and the same dual monitor setup and nice keyboard/mouse:

Asus M3A79-T @ $189
PC power & cooling S75QB 750w @ $99
OCZ Reaper DDR2 1066 4gigs @ $49
Phenom 9850 black edition (overlock!) @ $160
Zalman 9500A cooler @ $46
Saphire HD4870 @ $179
HT Omega Striker soundcard @ $85
Samsung DVD-R/RW @ $29
Cool Master Stacker 810 Full Tower @ 130
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136218">WD Caviar 640g 7200rpm 16mb Cache HDD @ $75 (2x is 1.3tb @ $150)</a>
Mouse - Logitech G5 @ $46
Keyboard - Razor Lycosa @ $80
Vista Home Premium 64bit @ $99
Primary Display - BenQ 24" 1920x1080 @ $299
Secondary Display - Acer 22" 1680x1050 @ $170

Total for a bitching great setup with dual monitor and quality components all around (just lacking your headset): $1810 for the WHOLE thing, that's with the OS, with the dual monitors and with all the keyboard/mouse, etc.

Very best,

Looks good to me, although some might say Intel is a better choice right now, espeacially at that price point. You won't go wrong with either, though ( can always upgrade to phenom 2 when it comes out should there be a need).

I'll add this: if you're gaming at 19*12, you're better off getting the 4870 1GB or the GTX260 ( core 192 or 216). TBH 512MB is really pushing it at 19*12 ( read the video card forums). I don't live in the US, so I can't comment on the specific prices, but in NZ the price difference between the 512M and 1G are less than (US)$50. The last thing you want is running out of frame buffer.


 

palladium

Senior member
Dec 24, 2007
539
2
81
Sorry for double post, but I can't seem to edit my message.

Here is a 4870 1GB for $30 more - worth it IMO espeacially if you're gaming at that res.

If you read AT's review the 1GB part outperforms the 512MB part quite a bit ( 5~10% in some cases) . Here is the link
 
Dec 19, 2008
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Originally posted by: palladium
Sorry for double post, but I can't seem to edit my message.

Here is a 4870 1GB for $30 more - worth it IMO espeacially if you're gaming at that res.

If you read AT's review the 1GB part outperforms the 512MB part quite a bit ( 5~10% in some cases) . Here is the link

Thanks for the tip.
 
Dec 19, 2008
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I've made a continuation of this topic here. I figured this post has come to the point where it belongs more in the General Hardware section than it does here.

Thanks again to all who have helped me and all that continue to help me.
 

octopus41092

Golden Member
Feb 23, 2008
1,840
0
76
Originally posted by: MalVeauX

CPU: AMD6000+
4gigs of DDR2 800 RAM
GPU: HD4870 or GTX260

I would go for that except maybe changing the CPU to an intel E7200. I have the X2 6000+ right now and in some games it is lacking. Especially in many RTS games the X2 6000+ doesn't cut it. Also, the E7200 is only maybe $25 more and has much much more overclocking potential.