Need some help with some info for an essay...

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
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I am doing a presentation/essay on the moral issues with Converting Tribal people to Christianity in Africa.

If anyone has any links for or against the topic, I would welcome them.

Any help is appreciated.

EDIT: For luvly's benefit... any arguements for or against the conversion attempts of any religion.
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
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i need examples of where people think going to africa to convert people is a good idea...

websites.. articles... etc
 

DaWhim

Lifer
Feb 3, 2003
12,985
1
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the people that go to africa to convert people is called missionary. they go to the rest of the world as well. so do you know what is christianity and what missionaries do?

the article deals with africa

Often the new churches gain support because of the way they deal with the demons of oppression and want: they interpret the horrors of everyday urban life in supernatural terms. In many cases these churches seek to prove their spiritual powers in struggles against witchcraft. The intensity of belief in witchcraft across much of Africa can be startling. As recently as last year at least 1,000 alleged witches were hacked to death in a single "purge" in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Far from declining with urbanization, fear of witches has intensified. Since the collapse of South Africa's apartheid regime, in 1994, witchcraft has emerged as a primary social fear in Soweto, with its three million impoverished residents.
 

"i need examples of where people think going to africa to convert people is a good idea...

websites.. articles... etc"


I would be happy to assist you. However, I'm not sure I understand your request. You do know that missionaries have existed centuries plus in Africa and Asia, right? In Africa, the Portuguese came first, then the Dutch. However, it became dominant during the reign of the British Empire, which was about two centuries ago. (Dutch, Portuguese, Germans and French have similar stories, but the Dutch, Germans and Portuguese hadly had much influence continentally as the French and the English, who also conquered the Dutch and ruled Southern Africa for a while!) Many were sent there as missionaries. Part of their jusitification for colonies was to bring the "primitive" people to God and eliminate their "ignorant" beliefs in idols/voodoo, which was the dominant religion in Africa (as well as Asia). So your question is quite ambiguous.

There are too many resources for discussion of this subject. Although the colonies are dead, missionary work is still pevalent in Africa (and of course Asia). I'm just confused because you speak as though it's a new thing of this century and foreign to Africans. You should be able to find resources of all sorts on this subject without a problem! If you would narrow down your central theme, you might be able to extract relevant information from numerous resources.
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
The hard part that I had was finding information explaining why them converting people is a good thing. I need to have two articles against my arguement as well.

My arguement is that Missionary work in Africa (the only place that I am concentrating on because I can only write a short paper) is immoral because it destroys present cultural values.

Of course, I will refer to items that happened in the past when missionaries came. I need examples of present day issues and problems with missionaries though. I have heard rumors about them withholding important drugs and medicine from people until they convert.
 

Do you have to speak of the "present cultural values"?

If not, here's an article that you might find useful: Missionary In South Africa.

Even if you must speak of it in present tense, you can still take a cue with the above article, as the ideas are still the same. There's a tendency for many articles on this subject to be favourable to the colonisation/missionary work, but you shouldn't have extreme difficulty finding articles not in favour.

Hope that helps.
 

Here's another link to look at: The History Of Christianity. Scan the site for articles you might find . . . or if you can find the book referenced for the outlines, it may work for you.

Although the emphasis is not on Christianity in Africa, it at least covers that subject from the look of the outline. If you can get the book, it will probably only help you with expressing the point of view of the missionaries.

Here's a link to list of references: London Missionary. The notable article is the one of the conflict: "Whose Article...."

Again, I hope this helps you. And hopefully you will have the courteousy to express gratitude. . . .
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: luvly
Here's another link to look at: The History Of Christianity. Scan the site for articles you might find . . . or if you can find the book referenced for the outlines, it may work for you.

Although the emphasis is not on Christianity in Africa, it at least covers that subject from the look of the outline. If you can get the book, it will probably only help you with expressing the point of view of the missionaries.

Here's a link to list of references: London Missionary. The notable article is the one of the conflict: "Whose Article...."

Again, I hope this helps you. And hopefully you will have the courteousy to express gratitude. . . .

Whose Article? I am assuming you are referring to the article called Whose Gospel? I will have to track down the actual article somehow... it looks very interesting.

Thank you for tracking these down, even though when most people want thanks, they don't explicitly ask for it. But thanks nonetheless. \

And thanks for not usurping my thread ;)
 

Someone isn't done with his essay yet?

Sorry, but no one's going to write your paper for you on a subject with so many resources, especially when you act ungrateful.

Now, excuse me as I go enjoy more documentaries on celebrities. Off to watch the Spice Girls! Woohoo! ;)
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: luvly
Someone isn't done with his essay yet?

Sorry, but no one's going to write your paper for you on a subject with so many resources, especially when you act ungrateful.

Now, excuse me as I go enjoy more documentaries on celebrities. Off to watch the Spice Girls! Woohoo! ;)

My essay isn't due until December 18th. I am still doing research for it. I'm not asking anyone to write it for me, just to maybe find me some good articles that I can use in the paper. And how am I ungrateful? I even thanked you for your efforts 3 posts above? Isn't that enough for you?
rolleye.gif
 

"And how am I ungrateful? I even thanked you for your efforts 3 posts above? Isn't that enough for you?"

Oh no, no . . . it was more than enough, except it didn't come from you naturally. You always seem to wait for people to ask you or imply that you should have the courtesy to say thanks before you do. One example would be the other member, DaWhim, who endeavoured to help you. It may not have been the most useful help, but it would have been courteous to express gratitude for his endeavour. You did a little better in this thread than in other ones, though.

At the same time, you aren't the only AT member guilty of discourtesy. Many members who seek help here are discourteous. But courtesy is one thing in my blood. :eek: Maybe I'm too demanding if the average member seems to have trouble saying at least "Thanks for your efforts" without being told to say so. It gets on my last nerves when people are discourteous. I generally don't make any efforts to help people who show lack thereof, manners, but sometimes I make exceptions.

The night you made the request for help, I was quite tired and it was so late. Maybe I can find a few more resources for you. It just kind of puzzles me that you're still seeking help. I mean, I suspect you need help because you don't seem to have an idea at all of the subject you chose to write about. For example, to me it doesn't make sense to write about converting tribal people to Christianity today being unjust without touching the background that led to millions of tribal people now Christians in Africa. So if it is bad to convert them now, was it insignificant then when they were all either of no belief system or primarily spiritual in mythology, voodoo and gods? It rather seems to make sense to me to touch the history of Christian influence there by means of colonialism and then connect it to modern day Africa. How much influence did it have in their culture, way of life, etc. How much do the Africans who consider themselves Christian follow traditional rituals grounded upon their original beliefs in voodoo/witchcraft or any other belief systems? For instance, I'm aware that a tribe in Nigeria, in spite of Christian influence and their visits to churches on Sundays, still believe in witchcraft, accuse other members of witchcraft, visit witch doctors to make potions for them etc. You can see the mixture of church and witchcraft in their videos. (Hey, wasn't Michael Jackson accused of going to a witch doctor in Mali to request a curse on Steven Spielberg and some other celebrity guy? LOL! I heard that on a documentary and on the replay of Larry King's interview with LaToya last night. It's only a rumour/allegation.) So if after answering all of these questions, you are still convinced that modern day conversion of tribal people is unjust, then you can make a connection with the two. It also makes sense to do this because the method used by modern day missionaries is not that of power or force. It's rather the friendly approach, and it is the tribal people who make their choices on converting or not. It is done through crusades, not from door to door. There's also the distribution of tracts, but on the road, not in people's houses. In contrast, during colonialism, there was a show of force through empowerment of the foreign government. You know, come to think of it, you haven't even stated who you're referring to as the implied missionaries. Are you referring to Europeans/people of European descent trying to convert the tribal folks of Africa? Or are you referring to fellow Africans that are Christians doing the missionary work?

I wonder if this subject was of your own choosing, or if you had to write about it because it was the only subject you found most interesting in a list of options given by your professor. My advice would be, if you have trouble with it and have not the slightest idea about the influence of Christianity in Africa, then choose another subject that you have basic knowledge about.

Hope that helps!
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: luvly
"And how am I ungrateful? I even thanked you for your efforts 3 posts above? Isn't that enough for you?"

Oh no, no . . . it was more than enough, except it didn't come from you naturally. You always seem to wait for people to ask you or imply that you should have the courtesy to say thanks before you do. One example would be the other member, DaWhim, who endeavoured to help you. It may not have been the most useful help, but it would have been courteous to express gratitude for his endeavour. You did a little better in this thread than in other ones, though.

At the same time, you aren't the only AT member guilty of discourtesy. Many members who seek help here are discourteous. But courtesy is one thing in my blood. :eek: Maybe I'm too demanding if the average member seems to have trouble saying at least "Thanks for your efforts" without being told to say so. It gets on my last nerves when people are discourteous. I generally don't make any efforts to help people who show lack thereof, manners, but sometimes I make exceptions.

The night you made the request for help, I was quite tired and it was so late. Maybe I can find a few more resources for you. It just kind of puzzles me that you're still seeking help. I mean, I suspect you need help because you don't seem to have an idea at all of the subject you chose to write about. For example, to me it doesn't make sense to write about converting tribal people to Christianity today being unjust without touching the background that led to millions of tribal people now Christians in Africa. So if it is bad to convert them now, was it insignificant then when they were all either of no belief system or primarily spiritual in mythology, voodoo and gods? It rather seems to make sense to me to touch the history of Christian influence there by means of colonialism and then connect it to modern day Africa. How much influence did it have in their culture, way of life, etc. How much do the Africans who consider themselves Christian follow traditional rituals grounded upon their original beliefs in voodoo/witchcraft or any other belief systems? For instance, I'm aware that a tribe in Nigeria, in spite of Christian influence and their visits to churches on Sundays, still believe in witchcraft, accuse other members of witchcraft, visit witch doctors to make potions for them etc. You can see the mixture of church and witchcraft in their videos. (Hey, wasn't Michael Jackson accused of going to a witch doctor in Mali to request a curse on Steven Spielberg and some other celebrity guy? LOL! I heard that on a documentary and on the replay of Larry King's interview with LaToya last night. It's only a rumour/allegation.) So if after answering all of these questions, you are still convinced that modern day conversion of tribal people is unjust, then you can make a connection with the two. It also makes sense to do this because the method used by modern day missionaries is not that of power or force. It's rather the friendly approach, and it is the tribal people who make their choices on converting or not. It is done through crusades, not from door to door. There's also the distribution of tracts, but on the road, not in people's houses. In contrast, during colonialism, there was a show of force through empowerment of the foreign government. You know, come to think of it, you haven't even stated who you're referring to as the implied missionaries. Are you referring to Europeans/people of European descent trying to convert the tribal folks of Africa? Or are you referring to fellow Africans that are Christians doing the missionary work?

I wonder if this subject was of your own choosing, or if you had to write about it because it was the only subject you found most interesting in a list of options given by your professor. My advice would be, if you have trouble with it and have not the slightest idea about the influence of Christianity in Africa, then choose another subject that you have basic knowledge about.

Hope that helps!

LOL I swear.... you always type so damn much :p I am broadening the topic to include the problems with religious conversions worldwide. The arguement that I am presenting is that missionary and conversion attempts are immoral because they are often based on deceit or bribery. I have an article from Time magazine about a group of people who goes into elementary schools to convert 4 to 12 year olds. They give out toys, candy and pizza to these little kids and then have them sing songs about how jesus loves them, sinners and non believers are going to hell etc. Thats the kind of things that I am arguing against. If you want me to PM you the article I will....

Edit: And I do have a sense of the paper and arguement I am making... what I am having trouble doing is finding articles that I can reference for and against my arguement.
 

"LOL I swear.... you always type so damn much I am broadening the topic to include the problems with religious conversions worldwide."

LOL! It must be a talent . . . or maybe I have high expectations. It is why I asked for elaboration or that you narrow down your subject 'cuz it was so broad.

"I have an article from Time magazine about a group of people who goes into elementary schools to convert 4 to 12 year olds. They give out toys, candy and pizza to these little kids and then have them sing songs about how jesus loves them, sinners and non believers are going to hell etc. Thats the kind of things that I am arguing against. If you want me to PM you the article I will...."

Exactly my point. Reading one little incident in Time Magazine doesn't tell the truth about how people are ministering for the most part. From first hand experience, I can tell you that the whole 4 to 12 years old stuff is crap. The only situation it would seem true is when there's famine or war in a ravaged country, so the missionaries use the chance to minister. However, they don't use it as an appeal to force. How many times do you see that? Or how many of those people aren't of a mainstream religious belief such as Islam already? Sometimes they are Christians but gave in when God didn't seem there for them.

Please PM me the article because I am curious to know exactly where they got that from. . . . Thanks in advance.
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: luvly

Exactly my point. Reading one little incident in Time Magazine doesn't tell the truth about how people are ministering for the most part. From first hand experience, I can tell you that the whole 4 to 12 years old stuff is crap. The only situation it would seem true is when there's famine or war in a ravaged country, so the missionaries use the chance to minister. However, they don't use it as an appeal to force. How many times do you see that? Or how many of those people aren't of a mainstream religious belief such as Islam already? Sometimes they are Christians but gave in when God didn't seem there for them.

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to argue there... you didnt even use any british spelling or luvlyease..... can you clarify your arguement? :confused: PM sent btw....
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: luvly
"LOL I swear.... you always type so damn much I am broadening the topic to include the problems with religious conversions worldwide."

LOL! It must be a talent . . . or maybe I have high expectations. It is why I asked for elaboration or that you narrow down your subject 'cuz it was so broad.

"I have an article from Time magazine about a group of people who goes into elementary schools to convert 4 to 12 year olds. They give out toys, candy and pizza to these little kids and then have them sing songs about how jesus loves them, sinners and non believers are going to hell etc. Thats the kind of things that I am arguing against. If you want me to PM you the article I will...."

Exactly my point. Reading one little incident in Time Magazine doesn't tell the truth about how people are ministering for the most part. From first hand experience, I can tell you that the whole 4 to 12 years old stuff is crap. The only situation it would seem true is when there's famine or war in a ravaged country, so the missionaries use the chance to minister. However, they don't use it as an appeal to force. How many times do you see that? Or how many of those people aren't of a mainstream religious belief such as Islam already? Sometimes they are Christians but gave in when God didn't seem there for them.

Please PM me the article because I am curious to know exactly where they got that from. . . . Thanks in advance.

WTF is wrong with you? That was actually a decent non-pompous reply. :Q
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: luvly
"LOL I swear.... you always type so damn much I am broadening the topic to include the problems with religious conversions worldwide."

LOL! It must be a talent . . . or maybe I have high expectations. It is why I asked for elaboration or that you narrow down your subject 'cuz it was so broad.

"I have an article from Time magazine about a group of people who goes into elementary schools to convert 4 to 12 year olds. They give out toys, candy and pizza to these little kids and then have them sing songs about how jesus loves them, sinners and non believers are going to hell etc. Thats the kind of things that I am arguing against. If you want me to PM you the article I will...."

Exactly my point. Reading one little incident in Time Magazine doesn't tell the truth about how people are ministering for the most part. From first hand experience, I can tell you that the whole 4 to 12 years old stuff is crap. The only situation it would seem true is when there's famine or war in a ravaged country, so the missionaries use the chance to minister. However, they don't use it as an appeal to force. How many times do you see that? Or how many of those people aren't of a mainstream religious belief such as Islam already? Sometimes they are Christians but gave in when God didn't seem there for them.

Please PM me the article because I am curious to know exactly where they got that from. . . . Thanks in advance.

WTF is wrong with you? That was actually a decent non-pompous reply. :Q

Don't fall for the ruse...that's how she sucks you in! :p
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: luvly
"LOL I swear.... you always type so damn much I am broadening the topic to include the problems with religious conversions worldwide."

LOL! It must be a talent . . . or maybe I have high expectations. It is why I asked for elaboration or that you narrow down your subject 'cuz it was so broad.

"I have an article from Time magazine about a group of people who goes into elementary schools to convert 4 to 12 year olds. They give out toys, candy and pizza to these little kids and then have them sing songs about how jesus loves them, sinners and non believers are going to hell etc. Thats the kind of things that I am arguing against. If you want me to PM you the article I will...."

Exactly my point. Reading one little incident in Time Magazine doesn't tell the truth about how people are ministering for the most part. From first hand experience, I can tell you that the whole 4 to 12 years old stuff is crap. The only situation it would seem true is when there's famine or war in a ravaged country, so the missionaries use the chance to minister. However, they don't use it as an appeal to force. How many times do you see that? Or how many of those people aren't of a mainstream religious belief such as Islam already? Sometimes they are Christians but gave in when God didn't seem there for them.

Please PM me the article because I am curious to know exactly where they got that from. . . . Thanks in advance.

WTF is wrong with you? That was actually a decent non-pompous reply. :Q

Don't fall for the ruse...that's how she sucks you in! :p

Now now boys.... don't egg her on, or shell usurp my thread..... I need some articles, not a flamewar..... for now... ;)
 

Daaaaaaaaamn! That was a funny article. :D This part made me laugh sooooo hard:

"When his dad made him stop, Kenny complained, 'Why do we have to be Jewish? All the other kids get pizza and toys.'"

Thanks for sending it. It wouldn't hurt to publish it here, though. Wow . . . that must have taken much of your time to type . . . or I mean copy and paste. :p I guess that makes both of us. ;)

Okay sweetie . . . have you ever heard of "suppression of evidence"? It is what you engaged in there! Perhaps you can see why people couldn't help you. Not only were you vague on your discussion, you failed to announce that you had changed your subject significantly when you bumped the thread. I wonder if that goes on the list of discourteous behaviour?

You took a leap from discussion of how immoral it was for missionaries to convert tribal Africans to one about an event in Pennsylvania. You didn't bother to mention that these children you spoke of were in Pennsylvania at a public school, not the Africa you were telling us about a few minutes earlier. Furthermore, you didn't bother telling us that these kids got parental consents before attending the club. So aren't you presuming that most kids aren't Christian in the first place? They may actually be if their parents are consenting . . . or they may be those whose parents are indifferent about it. Hence, unless you're saying their parents are making immoral decisions, it's hard to see the argument for the goodies the evangelists give. Would that also make taking kids to church on Sunday immoral, especially with churches that offer potluck and tasty desserts? Uhmmm. . . .

The article you even cited gave an entirely different tone from the one you presented here. They said, "To be fair, kids like Kenny are the exception. 'We're not trying to grab kids and indoctrinate them. We're not a bunch of weirdos,' says Pennell." Treating kids to snacks doesn't make their method immoral, since candies isn't their direct means of reaching out to kids. It's a treat for the kids. For all we know, kids have short attention spans and would like some reward for sitting through the teachings. If their means of reaching kids, on the other hand, was through alluring acts, then that would be different. I bet for the most part the kids themselves spread the news to other kids and volunteer the information of free snacks.
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: luvly
Daaaaaaaaamn! That was a funny article. :D This part made me laugh sooooo hard:

"When his dad made him stop, Kenny complained, 'Why do we have to be Jewish? All the other kids get pizza and toys.'"

Thanks for sending it. It wouldn't hurt to publish it here, though. Wow . . . that must have taken much of your time to type . . . or I mean copy and paste. :p I guess that makes both of us. ;)

Okay sweetie . . . have you ever heard of "suppression of evidence"? It is what you engaged in there! Perhaps you can see why people couldn't help you. Not only were you vague on your discussion, you failed to announce that you had changed your subject significantly when you bumped the thread. I wonder if that goes on the list of discourteous behaviour?

You took a leap from discussion of how immoral it was for missionaries to convert tribal Africans to one about an event in Pennsylvania. You didn't bother to mention that these children you spoke of were in Pennsylvania at a public school, not the Africa you were telling us about a few minutes earlier. Furthermore, you didn't bother telling us that these kids got parental consents before attending the club. So aren't you presuming that most kids aren't Christian in the first place? They may actually be if their parents are consenting . . . or they may be those whose parents are indifferent about it. Hence, unless you're saying their parents are making immoral decisions, it's hard to see the argument for the goodies the evangelists give. Would that also make taking kids to church on Sunday immoral, especially with churches that offer potluck and tasty desserts? Uhmmm. . . .

The article you even cited gave an entirely different tone from the one you presented here. They said, "To be fair, kids like Kenny are the exception. 'We're not trying to grab kids and indoctrinate them. We're not a bunch of weirdos,' says Pennell." Treating kids to snacks doesn't make their method immoral, since candies isn't their direct means of reaching out to kids. It's a treat for the kids. For all we know, kids have short attention spans and would like some reward for sitting through the teachings. If their means of reaching kids, on the other hand, was through alluring acts, then that would be different. I bet for the most part the kids themselves spread the news to other kids and volunteer the information of free snacks.

It is immoral however. You must have passed over the part in the article where children were attending without the parents permission. The other issue that I have is that children that young aren't able to properly make rational descisions concerning their faith and most aspects of their lives. When they are influenced with candy and other treats, their opinions and beliefs are easily swayed.

At every meeting, the club leader asks if anyone would like to accept Jesus as his Saviour. If a child raises his hand, the leader has a one-on-one conversation with him to see if he is ready to be "saved" then and there. That practice has been criticized by mainline churches, even as they applaud the Fellowship's other activities. Says Rosalie Potter, head of evangelism and church development at the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.): "It would be hard to expect a child of four or five to have a conversion experience with integrity."

Detractors are also afraid that young kids might confuse a club event with science class, concluding that school authorities vouch for both. Ashley, a Pleasant Gap fifth-grader who has attended Good News Clubs for four years, does not appear to realize that the club's warnings about damnation are not made by her public school. She says the club is led by "my teachers and members of my church."

It turned out that the caretakers at Kenny's after-school, public day-care program were letting kids attend Good News Club meetings in the elementary building without previously alerting their parents.

 

"It is immoral however. You must have passed over the part in the article where children were attending without the parents permission."

No, I'm afraid you missed the part where the article said it was an exception:

"To be fair, kids like Kenny are the exception."

Here's another:
"According to Fellowship policy, clubs meeting in schools must collect permission slips. And they almost always do, says Marshall Pennell, the Fellowship's executive ministries coordinator."

"The other issue that I have is that children that young aren't able to properly make rational descisions concerning their faith and most aspects of their lives. When they are influenced with candy and other treats, their opinions and beliefs are easily swayed."

Well, again, the problem with your argument is, you're blaming the seller and ignoring the buyer. It's like trying to stop M&Ms from manufacturing candies, yet ignoring the fact that kids wouldn't get the candies if their parents or responsible adults didn't buy it for them or give the allowances. Religion hasn't meant no abstract capitalism. The most significant factor here is that parental consent is required to attend the program in the first place. Responsible parents learn about the clubs their kids attend before consenting them. So it would seem to me that you have a better argument attributing the push of religion to the parents. You could then include parents who require their kids to go to church every Sunday, without an option of "no".

Anyway, let's put it this way: You cannot find articles because there aren't any for your vague argument. Not even the article you sent to me supports your argument. If you want to argue about the doctrines presented to the kids and "salvation", well, not even all Christians agree with what the evangelical group is doing. There's a quote there of dissent. So how you could expect to find articles on an exception, rather than a rule, escapes me. If you want to argue about their tactics, you have to find a more questionable method, not the example you gave. Nonetheless, and most importantly, you have failed to be helpful to many who may have helped had you been clear on what you wanted. Until you are elaborate and have a much more specific goal/a central theme, I doubt anyone would have much to offer.

"I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to argue there... you didnt even use any british spelling or luvlyease..... can you clarify your arguement? PM sent btw...."

LOL! Funny you would say that. How would you even know I wasn't using the British spelling, whereas there were no words there that differed from British spellings, to the best of my knowledge? Many times, I think you must really be a German kid who came to the USA at a much older age; or Wisconsin has too many dialects there, of course influenced by the "sch"isms. Where did you even get that word "luvlyease"? Is that the German in you again speaking in tongues? I'm afraid you're on fire with the Holy Ghost to speak in that tongue! LMAO! :D All right . . . [In Guyanese accent:] I hereby dub you "Gobad".

German translation: "Gedaschlechtsm". Excuse me, since I have trouble with the German 'sch', 'vi' and 'ze' thing.

Main Entry: Gobadgism
Pronunciation: 'Go-bad-ji-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: Modern English Gobadgrs, confusing and vague member of a forum, from badger
Date: 2003
1 a: the act of intentionally or accidentally badgering b: the act of confusing intentionally

- Gobad noun One who engages in gobadgism, especially one who confuses another intentionally.

You go bad guy! ;) Seriously, if you can focus your discussion on something narrow, I would be glad to help with resources. You can't get resources when you're so vague and broad.
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
But you still ignored my points that children that young aren't able to make proper descisions for themselves especially when given toys, candy and pizza to get them to attend meetings. They also think that since the events are held at schools, that the schools approve of them. Surely you can't deny that teachers play an important role in influencing the descisions that children make.

As far as parental permission goes, there is unfortunately no evidence stating how specific the permission slips are. Would your view of the club change if the permission slip said: I grant my son or daughter the right to attend this after school club with other children where they will eat candy and pizza and sing songs....?

http://www.caribbeanhindu.com/Gandhi_Conversion.htm

Read some quotes by Ghandi of experiences with conversion attempts.

Only the other day a missionary descended on a famine area with money in his pocket, distributed it among the famine stricken, converted them to his fold, took charge of their temple, and demolished it. This is outrageous. (Harijan: November 5, 1937)