need some financial advice, ATOT

StevenYoo

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2001
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hello all,
I'm a 25-year old graduate student currently living at home with my parents.

I have little to no taxable income (I do freelance tutoring) and I'm about 44,000 in debt (grad school loan).

I don't have much money to my name, and I'll be taking out even more money in loans if I get accepted into medical school.

I want to start an IRA or some other kind of long-term investment vehicle.

I have a checking account and an online savings account with HSBC, and my credit score is 800+.

what do I do?


*EDIT*
what about stocks? How do I get started with stocks, and what is a good starting amount?
 

SoulAssassin

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
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I assume you are not making payments on your student loans now and if you go to med school you still won't be?
 

KarmaPolice

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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gl hf dd

I would say that ATOT is probably not the best place for advice but i guess there are some smart people here...

 

StevenYoo

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: SoulAssassin
I assume you are not making payments on your student loans now and if you go to med school you still won't be?

right.

Originally posted by: KarmaPolice
gl hf dd

I would say that ATOT is probably not the best place for advice but i guess there are some smart people here...

you're right, but any info is helpful
 

KarmaPolice

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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I dont really see how you can invest much. If you only work a small amount now you need that for living expenses and shouldnt be taking more loans out if you dont need it. When you go to med school you deff wont be able to work a side job so I think your just gonna have to be stuck with the debt and no long term savings for a while. I dont have any loans but i believe you have to use the loans for student expenses or living right? I dont think you are allowed to invest the loan money or why you would want to.
 

StevenYoo

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Jul 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: KarmaPolice
I dont really see how you can invest much. If you only work a small amount now you need that for living expenses and shouldnt be taking more loans out if you dont need it. When you go to med school you deff wont be able to work a side job so I think your just gonna have to be stuck with the debt and no long term savings for a while. I dont have any loans but i believe you have to use the loans for student expenses or living right? I dont think you are allowed to invest the loan money or why you would want to.

I hear what you're saying. I definitely would not be using loan money to pour into any IRA or stocks or whatever.

But my logic was, if I can get at least SOME of my tiny assets into some kind of healthy, growing, financial thingy, that would be better than nothing, right? And sooner is better than later, no?
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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With $44,000 in debt and little to no taxable income, what is it you plan to invest?
 

Fraggable

Platinum Member
Jul 20, 2005
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I think the best investment would be to start paying off the loans. I don't think any investment is going to pay a higher rate than your loans are charging, or will be charging when you're done with school.
 

StevenYoo

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Jul 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: allisolm
With $44,000 in debt and little to no taxable income, what is it you plan to invest?

I can scrounge up a grand every now and then... :p

Originally posted by: Fraggable
I think the best investment would be to start paying off the loans. I don't think any investment is going to pay a higher rate than your loans are charging, or will be charging when you're done with school.

As improbable as this might be, isn't is somewhat plausible that I can pour some money into an IRA and play my investments right to get a good return in a relatively short amount of time?

What about stocks? I know almost nothing about stock trading, but I would love to get involved in it.
 

KarmaPolice

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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Originally posted by: StevenYoo
Originally posted by: KarmaPolice
I dont really see how you can invest much. If you only work a small amount now you need that for living expenses and shouldnt be taking more loans out if you dont need it. When you go to med school you deff wont be able to work a side job so I think your just gonna have to be stuck with the debt and no long term savings for a while. I dont have any loans but i believe you have to use the loans for student expenses or living right? I dont think you are allowed to invest the loan money or why you would want to.

I hear what you're saying. I definitely would not be using loan money to pour into any IRA or stocks or whatever.

But my logic was, if I can get at least SOME of my tiny assets into some kind of healthy, growing, financial thingy, that would be better than nothing, right? And sooner is better than later, no?

lol you should go to the bank and ask for a financial thingy

I kid.

my brother is in med school and while he is one of the smartest in the class he is like most of them...really brain smart, but really really bad with money.(Not saying you are bad with money..there really is no way to go to med school without massive debt unless your family is millionaires.) Ive also heard stories that things are changing and doctors arnt going to be as rich as they used to be. My brother was telling me that the doctors now are really rich and have it made but the upcoming doctors are not going to be as well off.

The guy above is also right...I dont have loans so i am not sure but if the interest rate on your loans are pretty high you are gonna want to pay those off first. Investing money at a lower rate isnt going to do anything for ya.
 

KarmaPolice

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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Originally posted by: StevenYoo
Originally posted by: allisolm
With $44,000 in debt and little to no taxable income, what is it you plan to invest?

I can scrounge up a grand every now and then... :p

Originally posted by: Fraggable
I think the best investment would be to start paying off the loans. I don't think any investment is going to pay a higher rate than your loans are charging, or will be charging when you're done with school.

As improbable as this might be, isn't is somewhat plausible that I can pour some money into an IRA and play my investments right to get a good return in a relatively short amount of time?

What about stocks? I know almost nothing about stock trading, but I would love to get involved in it.

You need more then just a little bit of money to play the stock game effectively. If you are trying to make money in the short term you have to factor in the fees that they charge you to buy and sell. There are also minimums that you can buy...and obliviously banking on stocks in the short term is rather risky.
 

VTHodge

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2001
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Student load debt is a little different than other kinds of debt. It depends on how interest is calculated on your loan. If interest is not accruing, then there is no reason to pay it off. If the interest is accruing, then you may benefit from prepayment, unless the rate is ultralow (~<2%)

Either way, an IRA is probably not what you need right now. It sounds like you need more liquidity. A money market account will earn you a little interest, but still keep your money available to you. IRAs have special rules about withdrawls before retirement age.
 

jaedaliu

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2005
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you can't put money into your IRA unless you've earned it. very specific rules on this. IRS pub 590.

but you can open an investment account and start buying stocks, bonds, mutual funds, whatever. just be aware of the fees associated with different transactions and minimum balances to avoid payment.
 

StevenYoo

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2001
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OK,

so it looks like the IRA is out.

so I guess I can build up some more spare cash and go for a money market or stocks.

How do I get started with either?
 

VTHodge

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: StevenYoo
As improbable as this might be, isn't is somewhat plausible that I can pour some money into an IRA and play my investments right to get a good return in a relatively short amount of time?

What about stocks? I know almost nothing about stock trading, but I would love to get involved in it.
IRA and short-term gains don't mix together. The purpose of an IRA is to save for retirement. If you want to buy and sell stocks, you want a brokerage account.

However, if you don't know much about stocks, then buy a mutual fund. A mutual fund is essentially a group of stocks that is managed by someone who knows what they are doing, for which they take a small fee. Chances are they will do much better than you can on your own. Different types of funds have differnt goals. It sounds like you want a "growth" fund.
 

VTHodge

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: StevenYoo
OK,

so it looks like the IRA is out.

so I guess I can build up some more spare cash and go for a money market or stocks.

How do I get started with either?

Easiest way is probably to go to your normal bank and ask if they have money market accounts or brokerage accounts (most large banks do). They can explain the differences and help you decide what to do.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,392
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I recommend you pay off the debt. What's your interest rate on the $44k? If they are unsubsidized loans, you're being charged interest RIGHT NOW and the government isn't helping. I would consider trying to pay off what you can of those because negative interest is probably greater than what you would make in the markets.

Pay your loans....then start saving.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: thirdlegstump
Debts first, always. Growth later when you have money to burn.

No, not always. Some debt is "good" debt, such as student loans and mortgages. These generally carry low rates, 4-6% in recent years. You can afford to live with this debt and pay only the minimal payments if you are investing your money in something that offers a return of greater then those rates. You can easily find funds that average 8-10% returns a year, if not greater.

You will also earn a LOT more by investing earlier then later. I don't remember the example exactly, but a person investing $X/year from just 20-30 years old will have more when they retire then someone who invests $X/year from 30-retirement, assuming the same interest rates.
 

StevenYoo

Diamond Member
Jul 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
I recommend you pay off the debt. What's your interest rate on the $44k? If they are unsubsidized loans, you're being charged interest RIGHT NOW and the government isn't helping. I would consider trying to pay off what you can of those because negative interest is probably greater than what you would make in the markets.

Pay your loans....then start saving.

alright alright. you guys win!

I'll pay off the loans.

I'll also go talk to the wise guys over at HSBC
 

patentman

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2005
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Good that you want to start investing when you are young. Bad that you are already in debt up to your eyes. I first recommend paying off as much of your student loans as possible now. But if you can't or just want to invest now, that is not an awful decision as the interest on student loands is tax deductible and therefore does not hurt as much as the interest on a regular loan. Someone here said pay your debts first, always. I disagree. Pay your debts off at a reasonable rate, but if you can earn more money by putting your money to work than the interest rate on the loan, there is no need to pay off a debt to the exclusion of investing.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Because you do not have much money and will not for quite some time, stocks are not a good option for you. Because you have so little cash to spare, you will only be able to buy a minimal amount of stock per transaction. Each stock transaction costs a fixed dollar amount, e.g., 7-21 dollars. If you are buying 50 bucks worht of stopck at a time, you need at least a 20% return on that money just to break even. Not a good idea.

A better option would be to find a low initial investment mutual fund that allows periodic, no fee automatic investments. Vanguard offers a number of these funds. I'd go with some kind of index fund. It doesn't matter which one per se, so long as it is composed of a wide variety of highly traded stocks (i.e. companies you know, Samsung, Best Buy, Intel, Target, Microsoft, etc. etc.). Budget a fixed amount that you can afford to deposit in this fund on a periodic basis, i.e., every two weeks. It doesn't matter how small (although some funds have minimum reinvestment amounts). I started with $50 biweekly investments at 23. As I have earned more money, I periodically allocated more for my investments. I am now 30 and invest about ~4k a month into 5 different mutual funds, with over $100k accrued ($86k principal, $14k in capital gains).

If you are really really strapped for cash or cannot find a mutual fund with a low enough initial investment, start with CD from your local bank. Most banks have programs where you can allocate a certain amount of money towards the purchase of a CD each week. Once you have enough to invest in a mutual fund and can convert the CD, do it and invest in mutual funds as indicated above.

No matter what anyone tells you, investing in individual stocks is very risky. Unless you are very familiar with a company and do not mind the idea of losing your entire investment, do not invest in individual stocks. that said, higher risk = higher potential reward, but at least make an informed decision. But if you have to invest in an individual stcok now, take a look at Chemed and Apple. Chemed runs Roto Rooter and a hospice insurance company, and is doing quite well now. Apple is way up right now and so is probably not a great buy, but if you follow macrumors and time our investments before the announcement of new products (e.g., January macworld), you can do quite well, I know I did last year.

Good luck!
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
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Originally posted by: patentman
Good that you want to start investing when you are young. Bad that you are already in debt up to your eyes. I first recommend paying off as much of your student loans as possible now. But if you can't or just want to invest now, that is not an awful decision as the interest on student loands is tax deductible and therefore does not hurt as much as the interest on a regular loan. Someone here said pay your debts first, always. I disagree. Pay your debts off at a reasonable rate, but if you can earn more money by putting your money to work than the interest rate on the loan, there is no need to pay off a debt to the exclusion of investing.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Because you do not have much money and will not for quite some time, stocks are not a good option for you. Because you have so little cash to spare, you will only be able to buy a minimal amount of stock per transaction. Each stock transaction costs a fixed dollar amount, e.g., 7-21 dollars. If you are buying 50 bucks worht of stopck at a time, you need at least a 20% return on that money just to break even. Not a good idea.

A better option would be to find a low initial investment mutual fund that allows periodic, no fee automatic investments. Vanguard offers a number of these funds. I'd go with some kind of index fund. It doesn't matter which one per se, so long as it is composed of a wide variety of highly traded stocks (i.e. companies you know, Samsung, Best Buy, Intel, Target, Microsoft, etc. etc.). Budget a fixed amount that you can afford to deposit in this fund on a periodic basis, i.e., every two weeks. It doesn't matter how small (although some funds have minimum reinvestment amounts). I started with $50 biweekly investments at 23. As I have earned more money, I periodically allocated more for my investments. I am now 30 and invest about ~4k a month into 5 different mutual funds, with over $100k accrued ($86k principal, $14k in capital gains).

If you are really really strapped for cash or cannot find a mutual fund with a low enough initial investment, start with CD from your local bank. Most banks have programs where you can allocate a certain amount of money towards the purchase of a CD each week. Once you have enough to invest in a mutual fund and can convert the CD, do it and invest in mutual funds as indicated above.

No matter what anyone tells you, investing in individual stocks is very risky. Unless you are very familiar with a company and do not mind the idea of losing your entire investment, do not invest in individual stocks. that said, higher risk = higher potential reward, but at least make an informed decision. But if you have to invest in an individual stcok now, take a look at Chemed and Apple. Chemed runs Roto Rooter and a hospice insurance company, and is doing quite well now. Apple is way up right now and so is probably not a great buy, but if you follow macrumors and time our investments before the announcement of new products (e.g., January macworld), you can do quite well, I know I did last year.

Good luck!


Originally posted by: SoulAssassin
Just dump it in one of the 5% banks like Emigrant Direct.


These are both good pieces of advice. The first step is to get more information about your loans. I know that with my school loans, they did not accrue any interest until I was out of school. I wasn't savvy enough to do this then, but if you took out a larger than necessary loan, you could put it into a CD or a 5%+ savings account (ING/Emigrant Direct are popular ones). The reason I recommend these options is that they have guaranteed returns. As long as the interest on this is greater than the amount of interest you are accruing on you're loans, it's a great strategy (just don't break down and spend the money).