Need some definitive answers...

Fuel Injected

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Feb 15, 2005
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I've been reading forums all around the web about how nVidia's SLi just doesn't work in widescreen resolutions(like with the Dell 2405fpw). If this is true, then this pretty much kills getting an SLI board for me now, might as well wait until this issue is cleared up(whenever that may be!). Might look into ATI's AMR to see if they can get things right.
 

Static21

Junior Member
Mar 28, 2005
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I would also like to know about this.
another issue with sli I'd like to know a little more about
is dual monitor.

any info would be much appreciated.
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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i cant tell you much about dual monitors, nor can anyone tell you about ATI AMR..

but i can tell you about widescreen w/sli.

it does work.
that said, you do have to play games in windowed mode (which takes up the whole screen anyway) when using WS resolutions.
Or use the dsub analog connection. I play in windowed mode.

Either way, I think its well worth spending the extra $50 on a SLI board. It might even be advantagous for ATI AMR.. we dont know. But it could NOT hurt of course.
I've used both the Asus SLI and now have my DFI on the way.

Get the $180 DFI SLI on newegg. Its worth it.

This small driver issue with widescreen SLI is disappointing.. and I know that by the time they fix it NV50 will prob be out.

I dont know. But I'm hoping they'll fix it in the next beta.

Either way with a 2405 you can run 1600x1200, which would be nice if the windowed mode fix bothers you that much.

If you have the cash (you must if you asked), I'd go for it. The cards will sell easily for what you paid on ebay.

I'm considering getting ready for hte R520/NV50 by selling one of my GTs soon.

Want to get top dollar out of at least one of them before the R520 is here.. but then again, who knows how long that will take this time?

My guess, not anytime soon really.
 

zenbones

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2005
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Yes, that's true. It looks like the frames from each card are offset by a pixel from each other. The resulting flicker is so bad in AFR (alternating frame rendering) that it makes it useless. The SFR (split-screen rendering) results in a moving ripple line. I actually don't find this too annoying and games are playable. What I find annoying is shelling out for two top of the line cards, an SLI motherboard, and a widescreen monitor, to encounter this problem. Even more annoying is the fact that the problem has been in exitsence for months with no response or fix from NVidia. Latest drivers add easier control of the SLI modes, but do not fix the issue.

At this point, if you're not in need, wait and compare the ATI solution. I would have had I known.
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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i raised hell on NV's forums but i got no response from NV.

apparantly tho, this issue does not affect some people with SLI..

i have no idea what they are doing though.

im going to make sure when i format with my DFI to see if something changes.

I've also thought to see if other DVI plugs make a difference, and maybe try the other card in SLI and its outputs.
/shrug

i think its a timing issue, NV just doesnt have coding in there for all the oddball resolutions that 16:10 introduces in the newer LCDs. i tried to fix it myself many times but i dont know enough about timings.. and ended up thinking I broke my LCD.. so i stopped that.

good thing though, is that the cards go for a good amount still.. so a simple solution is to sell one card and just use one.

i thought about getting a X850XT PE.. but not this late in the game. With ATI's SM3 hardware coming out soon, that will make everything SM3 hardware.. I am not going to go down to that at this point..


but R520 intrigues me, yet I'm still waiting for the NV50 response.. and see how it fares in comparison before i buy either one.

I knew about this problem, I just dont listen to people online cuz I'm convinced over half these ppl talk out their asses.
I'm still amazed no one else has any workarounds or theories to what causes this problem besides myself.
 

ohnnyj

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2004
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It must be an issue with widescreen through DVI, not widescreen or widescreen resolutions as I have a 24" Sony GDM-FW900 doing 1920x1200 no problems (this is a CRT running through a BNC connector). So it seems like it is fixable. Did you say that the analog connector remedies the problem? Could you simply have both connections on your monitor and then just switch connections while gaming?
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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could i guess. but the rig is torn apart right now so cant try.

i dont care tho, the windowed mode doesnt bother me a bit.. no downfall that way that i've seen.

i still have yet to see anything match SLI@1680x1050 4xAA/8xAF in games.. and on a 1900x1200 LCD I couldnt imagine anything else touching it there either.
as resolution, AA/AF increase.. its advantages just become more prevelant.

I'd say that unless one has a 1900x1200 or higher screen, might as well stick with a single card and run no AA/AF.
Thats me. But at 1900 and 2048x1536.. pfft, nothing touches SLI.
Not much else can handle ANY AA/AF at those resolutions, but SLI can.

Its got its flaws, and its not for noobz, but its still the best.
 

Mackie2k

Senior member
May 18, 2000
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www.windowsintune.com
I have SLI 6800 GT's and Dual 2005 FPW Dell's........

The ONLY problem with SLI and Widescreen LCDs is if you use DVI.....

The middle of the screen, inside of games, gets wavy and stuff.......

If you run the DVI to VGA connector, it works fine......

I'm working with EVGA and NVIDIA in resolving this issue....

It's a minor issue, and I don't consider it a blocker in you purchasing SLI....

SLI 6800 GTs are kickass.....

At the same time, a ATI 850XT PE is a great card too, without the hassel......

If I could spend $400-450 on a 850XT, I probably would do that.......since the performance is only about 30% less.......
 

Mackie2k

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Also....someone said something about Dual Monitor....

Dual Screen doesn't work in SLI.....thats the technology....makes total sense....
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THAT SAID.

It's easy to get DUAL Monitor working with SLI.

All you have to do, is go into your Nvidia Control Panel, disable SLI, and reboot....and your dual monitor works great.

If you want to go play games, turn SLI on, and reboot....

My 3500+ with Raptors takes about 30 seconds to reboot......

I don't consider that a huge problem
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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yeah but with big panels like the 2005 and 2405, or that 37" benQ from hot deals (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-eEbslEDdO2...bin/ProdView.asp?g=153650&I=610DV3750), which will only get cheaper once places other than crutchfield get ahold of it..

i dont see a huge need for dual monitors anyway thesedays.

i could see a necessity for bigtime professionals, but prob limited appeal even there with 1080P resolutions, and beyond with the 2405FPW.
 

Fuel Injected

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Feb 15, 2005
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Doesn't VGA degrade quality as compared to DVI? Luckily, I won't be building my computer until July, so maybe there'll be a fix by then,
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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Originally posted by: Fuel Injected
Doesn't VGA degrade quality as compared to DVI? Luckily, I won't be building my computer until July, so maybe there'll be a fix by then,

it will be fixed by then. prob much sooner.

yea the analog cable is unbearable once you use the dvi.
 

Fuel Injected

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Feb 15, 2005
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Thanks housecat, gave me some definitive answers!

May be a little off topic but isn't SLI on the DFI board a little crapmed, especially with 2 6800Ultras? You couldn't put anything in the PCI slots(with is stopping me for buying this board)
 

jenneth

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Mar 4, 2005
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I'd say that unless one has a 1900x1200 or higher screen, might as well stick with a single card and run no AA/AF. Thats me. But at 1900 and 2048x1536.. pfft, nothing touches SLI. Not much else can handle ANY AA/AF at those resolutions, but SLI can.

True, except at this time SLI is not working properly w/ the 1920x1200 resolution, which kind of defeats the purpose. I was going to get 2 6800GTs, but this was the deal breaker...:(

it will be fixed by then. prob much sooner.

I hope so, but nVidia doesn't seem to care about this, they pretty much don't answer emails concerning this issue.

j.
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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Originally posted by: Fuel Injected
Thanks housecat, gave me some definitive answers!

May be a little off topic but isn't SLI on the DFI board a little crapmed, especially with 2 6800Ultras? You couldn't put anything in the PCI slots(with is stopping me for buying this board)

i have 6800GTs, so im not sure if ultras are much wider. But mine are single slot.

it is crammed, and i am not sure if it is enough to stop cards from being installed or not.

i didnt get that far (my board came DOA)

the asus has plenty of space for sure. if the overclocking and other qualities of the DFI attract you more, then obviously get that..

i personally dont think the space is worth it over the DFI's abilities.. but only you can decide that.

if you are waiting until july, i'd prob forget about this gen (unless you want to save some money), and get R520 or NV50.
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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Originally posted by: jenneth
I'd say that unless one has a 1900x1200 or higher screen, might as well stick with a single card and run no AA/AF. Thats me. But at 1900 and 2048x1536.. pfft, nothing touches SLI. Not much else can handle ANY AA/AF at those resolutions, but SLI can.

True, except at this time SLI is not working properly w/ the 1920x1200 resolution, which kind of defeats the purpose. I was going to get 2 6800GTs, but this was the deal breaker...:(

it will be fixed by then. prob much sooner.

I hope so, but nVidia doesn't seem to care about this, they pretty much don't answer emails concerning this issue.

j.

Yeah its a personal call. I dont think most will do it. I knew about the issue before hand. I just have enough money and ability that I thought I'd tackle it myself.

For the average guy, I'd say a single 6800 Ultra would be tough to beat.

If I were build a rig for a gamer, and ignore all NV/ATI preferences.. I'd use a DFI SLI, a 3500+ A64 (or any OC'd one) and a single BFG 6800 Ultra (because the ATI is not DX9C hardware, and they are very close in speed, and you can always try SLI down the road by popping in another Ultra if you wish).

Thats what I would suggest to anyone.
 

Fuel Injected

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Feb 15, 2005
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I don't think the new revisions will be that much faster than what's out there now(unless its a total core reworking and not just a small clock and memory bump). but if they are, it will lower the price on current gen cards making sli even cheaper

I do plan on overclocking but also want to install a tv tuner card and soundcard too. I don't want my nice new cards to be screwed up due to overheating.
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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Originally posted by: Fuel Injected
I don't think the new revisions will be that much faster than what's out there now(unless its a total core reworking and not just a small clock and memory bump). but if they are, it will lower the price on current gen cards making sli even cheaper

I do plan on overclocking but also want to install a tv tuner card and soundcard too. I don't want my nice new cards to be screwed up due to overheating.

they are a total core reworking. for both i believe.
i know that NV's is a totally new core.

they got access to Sony's Cell fabs to create the NV50, and millions upon millions of R&D money for it.. because its also going into the PS3.
Also, the cross platform development between the NV50/Cell will help things like SLI.

its goign to be worth the wait, and those who run out and buy R520 like little fanboys are dumb. i'd seroiusly suggest waiting for both and seeing how NV50 stacks up..
I'm expecting big things.

I would suggest Hauppauge tv tuner cards. I've used ATI and Hauppauge and nothing beats Hauppauges tuners for software support.

The new software for the hauppauges integrate DScaler deinterlacing algorithms.
I have the WinTV Go (mono only), it looks brilliant and works flawless.

I'd go with them over an Asus or another brand because they've been around, give out free updates (like the Dscaler addition) and have solid drivers/software.

http://www.hauppauge.com/

trust me on this one..

otherwise if you get a 2405 or 2005fpw, you have PIP support so you can run a digital cable or directv unit into it as well as your PC.
Unless you are running analog cable, thats what I would do.
Then you can have the TV on the same time as you are playing WoW or CSS, in the corner of the screen.. unaffecting FPS.
 

Fuel Injected

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Feb 15, 2005
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Another core reworking!(interest piqued)

I was always planning on the huappauge pvr-150(for about $60 on amazon). Pair that with BeyondTv 3 and BeyondMedia and won't need a tv in my dorm room next year.

Was originally going with the 2005fpw but the 2405fpw grabbed my by the jewels and won't let go! It's mine once some coupons lower the price into the 800's

You really are a find housecat, really dropping some knowledge on me!
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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well i went thru the same thing when i went off to college. i wanted a nice computer and tv tuner ect.

unfortunately i went with a VIA chipset, a ATI tv tuner, a Creative soundcard and a Nvidia GPU!
needless to say, the combination did not play nicely.
i wont use VIA hardware, creative hardware (tho they have fixed the issues i ran into), and ATI tv tuners no way.
the only part I kept out of that combo was the NV video.
it was a GF2 MX and was a cheap, trusty card that now powers my parents computer.

so i bought the ati tv wonder pci.. it never was good. you can find my old posts on rage3d trying to get the thing to work right.
it never did. ATI offered no support.

ATI just does not do too great with software coding, I'm surprised their video card drivers are as good as they are (but you gotta consider they havent had a core reworking since the 9700 pro.. and you can understand how they finally have decent drivers for so many products).
for instance, take a look at the hdtv 'blunder' they released http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1641010,00.asp
another fine example as to why to stay away, from "new" products from them.

i would def go with the 2405 since it is 1080p compliant and the 2005 is not.

im also going to pick up the 2405 once they drop the price.
i suspect with panels like that 37" benQ going for $2000 MSRP, 24" panels like the 2405 should be dropping to considerably less than $860 within the year.

i dont consider the 2405 a great bargain@ 860.. when you start to notice panels such as the 37" going for $2K, and soon for less than that.
that said, i'm still picking up a 2405 as its about as big as I'd want for a PC screen.


i suspect dell will come out with a 27" or 30" soon, then releasing 25% off coupons, bringing it to $900.

its a safe bet you'll be able to pick it up for $900 (free shipping, no tax thru Dell Home) anytime soon.

if you look at current pricing on the 2005, which people were blown away it was going for "so cheap" at $600 this christmas.. its now regularly selling for $475 or so!
I wouldnt even consider $900 (no tax, free shipping) that great of a deal, honestly.
But I'm buying one when they do put out a 25% off coupon regardless.

To me its more of a $750 panel, and it will prob easily be there by the end of the year regularly.. as the competition heats up as companies get tired of Dell kicking their ass throughout the year.
 

Fuel Injected

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Feb 15, 2005
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860 for a 1200 monitor(and considering the reviews, is worth more) isn't a good deal?

While a 37" screen for 2,000 may be great, 2,000 is a little too rich for my blood.

Sorry for the early probs you faced on your previous builds
 

housecat

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Oct 20, 2004
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Originally posted by: Fuel Injected
860 for a 1200 monitor(and considering the reviews, is worth more) isn't a good deal?

While a 37" screen for 2,000 may be great, 2,000 is a little too rich for my blood.

Sorry for the early probs you faced on your previous builds

Its not a bad deal. What I was trying ot say was, that I see changes happening on the LCD market.

I think while $860 sounds superb today. Its no more superb than the stacked-coupon-bonanza was for a $600 2005FPW at Christmas was.

Now, people are like "oh" as the 2005 is easy to get for $500 or less.. yet so many of us rushed to get it.


Just like hte 2005 is not really a $800 panel, the 2405 is not a 1200 panel.
They've revealed how much markup is in the screen through the $860 price, same as they did at Christmas with the 2005.

So no, I dont think its a 1200 panel, but a $860 or less panel.

They set the price, as $860 is obviously still profitable for them.. and $500 still is for them on the 2005.


The $800 2005/ $1200 2405 is just what they think they can pull out of it to Joe Consumer.. not what is really should go for.

I think $500/$860 (respectively) is about right for a minimum price.
But those prices dont blow me away.
No way does a 24" panel cost $900 to get to my door... thats a lot of beans really, for a screen.

I dropped $530 on my 2005, and lo and behold. It wasnt the deal of the century I thought I was getting.. not a ripoff. And still cannot beat it.. but my point is prices are being driven down.. and they arent going back up..
so I wasnt too bummed to miss out on the 24".. considering all things, it will prob be down to $750 soon, just as the 2005 is down to $450 or so today.

Bah, dont listen to me.. I'm a twisted fvck. ;)

ps. what i'm trying to say is.. while i thought $530 for the 2005 was a super great opportunity.. it was more like a sign of what was to become of the 20" WS LCD market..
it wasnt a fluke that I had to jump on immediately.
But more a surprising swing in LCD size and price.

I think its safe to say CRT is officially dead with the 2005/2405 and panels like that BenQ 37".
People are finally goign to get over 20" viewable on their desktop PCs.. for years in the CRT world 20" viewable was the best it got.

I'm picking up the 2405 for my personal use, the 2005 is going on my second machine.. and that BenQ 37" will be my TV.

Even if they come out with a 27" lcd that outdoes the 24".. I wont care. 24" is just right.
I dont want to have to power a gaming rig every year that can push that kind of resolution that 27"/30" LCDs will bring.
Nor do I want to worry about having a dual link DVI card (2405 just about maxes out current single link DVI bandwidth).

I play older games too, like Diablo2 and Starcraft, and they look great on the 2005.. as I'm sure they do on the 2405.. but 27" and 30" just sounds a tad big to stretch out old 640x480 games!