Need Recommendation

[VStrom]

I'm going to build a PC for the first time (hold the applause) and I have just about everything picked out except the case. There is such an overwhelming array of cases out there that I am having trouble settling on one and I don't want to choose one that is going to cause extra hassles during the build being that it will be my first time around. That being said, I am not too concerned with the appearance as I am the functionality. I plan on doing some overclocking in the future so I want to be sure I have anough airflow and room for expansion. Price isn't a huge concern but I would like keep it reasonable.

Any recommendations are appreciated - it seems like a pretty knowledgable group of folks on here!

Here's what I plan on using for components:
MB - ABIT AX8 (I chose this over the AV8 because it has a PCIE slot)
CPU - Athlon 64 3500+ (90nm) socket 939 - (I'm considering adding a Zalman CNPS7000A-CU heat sink)
Mem - 1G (2x 512) Corsair XMS DDR400 something-or-other (I haven't exactly narrowed this down yet)
PSU - Antec Neopower 480W
Misc - 2 Seagate Barracuda 120GB drives (Raid 0), Sony DRU710A DVD-RW (Dual Layer) & GeForce 6800GT (256MB) VC, etc.

BTW, if anyone sees any major faults in my hardware planning I would also appreciate the warning!

 

[Operandi]

Wellcome to the forums :thumbsup:

This Antec is nice, if you like AL check out Coolermaster and Lian-Li.

P.S.

I would get the Zalman HS/F.

 

[akira34]

Personally, I'd stick with MSI mobo's and Plextor burners. The Plextor PX-716 drive is a 4x dual layer 16x dvd+r and dvd-r burner. I'm not finding the ax8 mobo, but how many SATA ports does it have? The MSI board I linked to has 4, that can ALL be used on the same arry (easily giving you over 1TB or storage without breaking a sweat, as a single drive).

I've used sony drives before and they have never lasted very long. Plextor drives, on the other hand, just keep on working. I've put thousands of blanks through my Plextor burners before, without any issues (other than when I used cheap/crap media). Besides, that sony burner is only 2.4x on the DL, where the Plextor is 4x and not that much more money wise.

Take a serious look at the Lian-Li V1000, V1100, V2000, and V2100 series cases. I have the V1100B and it's simply the best case I've ever used. I've had more expensive cases, and other brands, but this Lian-Li beats them all hands down.

Also, look at Thermalright for top notch processor cooling...

 

[VStrom]

Thanks for the replies, guys. For more info on the Abit AX8 mobo go here: ABIT I haven't been able to find it at too many online retailers. Newegg and Zipzoomfly maybe. Both were backordered I think which is ok. It'll only get cheaper and I'm still picking parts
The Lian Li cases are maybe's on my list. The PC-1000 is the one I had my eye on. Kinda pricey though @ $200 when you consider that the mobo is only ~$150.00. I was also looking at the Collermaster TAC-T01 but like I said, there are so many choices. I guess the better question is what cases/manufacturer's should I steer clear of?

I have a Sony DRU510A in my current machine (A Dell...ok quit laughing) and it has worked great. I do a fair amount of video editing and I've never had one burn incorrectly or have any issues. I can't say the same for my Yamaha CD-RW drive :disgust: I'll look into the Plextor, though.

 

[VStrom]

Originally posted by: Operandi
Wellcome to the forums :thumbsup:

This Antec is nice, if you like AL check out Coolermaster and Lian-Li.

P.S.

I would get the Zalman HS/F.

Thank you. I most likely will pick up the Zalman. For peace of mind the $50 is worth it.

 

[VStrom]

After all is said and done I think I'll go with the Lian Li PC-60. It's a quality case that has been around a while and it is reasonably priced.:thumbsup:

 

[mgo]

I build my first computer last month and used a lian li pc60. I love it. Using it for my next build too.

 

[TheGeek]

Originally posted by: akira34
Personally, I'd stick with MSI mobo's and Plextor burners. The Plextor PX-716 drive is a 4x dual layer 16x dvd+r and dvd-r burner. I'm not finding the ax8 mobo, but how many SATA ports does it have? The MSI board I linked to has 4, that can ALL be used on the same arry (easily giving you over 1TB or storage without breaking a sweat, as a single drive).

I've used sony drives before and they have never lasted very long. Plextor drives, on the other hand, just keep on working. I've put thousands of blanks through my Plextor burners before, without any issues (other than when I used cheap/crap media). Besides, that sony burner is only 2.4x on the DL, where the Plextor is 4x and not that much more money wise.

Take a serious look at the Lian-Li V1000, V1100, V2000, and V2100 series cases. I have the V1100B and it's simply the best case I've ever used. I've had more expensive cases, and other brands, but this Lian-Li beats them all hands down.

Also, look at Thermalright for top notch processor cooling...

so the V1100 comes with preinstalled sound-dampening faom?

 

[akira34]

Yes it does... Comes pre installed from Lian-Li... Just another 'extra' touch that's standard issue from them.

 

[maxcom]

pc-60 has no reset button?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Somebody sent me a tech-news article published in the last week noting that ABIT was having financial problems.

I bought one of their graphics cards -- a GF4 Ti4600 -- a couple years ago, and it was great. And for some time, they vied with ASUS as maker of "preferred-over-clocker" motherboards.

 

[VStrom]

Doh! It figures. I also determined that a pre-BIOS 1.5 A8V mobo's will not work with the Winchester CPU's and of course that's what I ordered (obviously prior to learning this). :disgust: I hope they'll still let me send the board to them (ABIT) to have the BIOS updated for free as they have with others. I'm awaiting my shipment in the next few days. We'll see what happens.

Incidentally, as an FYI to others who are component hunting, I also found out that *older* (don't ask me to define this) Antec PSU's have issues with the A8V boards, especially the Truepower line. I haven't been able to confirm when they fixed this and if the Neopower is affected as well.

 

[akira34]

I've not had any 'issues' with Antec PSU's and MSI boards. Something else that's crappy about that board you're getting... You can't have 4 SATA hard drives in a single array. With two different RAID controllers, you're forced into having 4 drives as two different arrays. The MSI boards use one controller for all four ports allowing you to have all four drives in a single array. That makes it a hell of a lot easier to get 1TB+ worth of space in a single array. OR do a better 0+1 configuration. Also, the abit board only has support for up to 5.1 sound (MSI offers 7.1). The abit has just one GB LAN connection, the MSI board has two. The last nail in the abit's coffin (at least for me) is the VIA chipset. The MSI board uses the current (latest and greatest) nforce 3 Ultra chipset...

Not sure where you're getting the board from, but newegg doesn't show it. The MSI board offers [in my opinion] better features at the same price (if not lower)... Plus, there's no need to 'send out' the board for a bios update... MSI ships tools with the board to let you do that. PLUS they even put the SATA/SATA RAID drivers onto a floppy for you... Oh, and don't forget the 3 YEAR warranty MSI gives you on their boards...

 

[VStrom]

Originally posted by: akira34Something else that's crappy about that board you're getting... You can't have 4 SATA hard drives in a single array.

Yeah, I saw that but I only plan on running 2 HD with one RAID 0 array.

Originally posted by: akira34Also, the abit board only has support for up to 5.1 sound (MSI offers 7.1). The abit has just one GB LAN connection, the MSI board has two.

I had already planned on (and bought) getting a Audigy 2 ZS sound card. From what I've read, the on board sound for a lot of mobos has issues and is less than stellar. I'm not sure I actually need 7.1 anyway - too many damn wires I only need one LAN connection (I have a wireless network for my other PC's) so I am good to go there.

Originally posted by: akira34Not sure where you're getting the board from, but newegg doesn't show it.

Monarch Computers.

Originally posted by: akira34The MSI board offers [in my opinion] better features at the same price (if not lower)... Plus, there's no need to 'send out' the board for a bios update... MSI ships tools with the board to let you do that. PLUS they even put the SATA/SATA RAID drivers onto a floppy for you... Oh, and don't forget the 3 YEAR warranty MSI gives you on their boards...

Now you tell me! I appreciate your insight and repsonse. I'll let you know how t turns out. I'll prolly screw up and blow it out anyway and have to buy another:laugh:

 

[VStrom]

Originally posted by: VStrom
Here's what I plan on using for components:
MB - ABIT AX8 (I chose this over the AV8 because it has a PCIE slot)
CPU - Athlon 64 3500+ (90nm) socket 939 - (I'm considering adding a Zalman CNPS7000A-CU heat sink)
Mem - 1G (2x 512) Corsair XMS DDR400 something-or-other (I haven't exactly narrowed this down yet)
PSU - Antec Neopower 480W
Misc - 2 Seagate Barracuda 120GB drives (Raid 0), Sony DRU710A DVD-RW (Dual Layer) & GeForce 6800GT (256MB) VC, etc.

BTW - I ended up changing my mind on several components:

HD - (2x) Maxtor Diamond Max 10 200GB w/16MB buffer
DVD - NEC ND-3500A
Mem - 1 GB Corsair DDr 400 PC3200XLPRO
Vid - Sapphire Radeon X800 PRO (256MB)
Mobo - As I mentioned ABIT AV8 - 3rd eye

 

[akira34]

I, initially, only planned on running my two 160GB Seagate SATA drives in RAID 0... That changed when I installed WMCE05 and realized how much space can be taken up by recorded tv. I then added the pair of 250GB WD SATA drives. Since I have room, I'm thinking about adding another pair of 250GB SATA drives soon. If I can find a use for the two 160's then I'll just run the 4 250GB drives as a single array and have a full TB of storage. If I don't find a use, I'll probably either put them into external enclosures, keep them in reserve, or install them on a SATA RAID card and just share them out. That would give me 1.3TB of storage inside my home pc/windows box.

Point being, unless you're needs are static for the next X years, plan to upgrade. A built-in upgrade path is ALWAYS a good thing. Being able to make it easier later is never a bad thing.

As for the bios updates... Anyone with any experience, or reasonable level of intelligence can follow the instructions on updating the mobo bios. It's really NOT that difficult. If you have problems doing it, maybe you should rethink putting systems together. After all, what's the point of building one if you can't even do the minor updates without boning the works...

For the sound, I've read, in the past, about mobo's not having good sound. I'm running a set of quality CSW speakers (2.1 system) that kicks ASS right off the mobo. The sound is as good as what you'd get out of the same speakers on the 2ZS card (I actually compared them). I can't see blowing an extra $75-$100 on an item when you don't need to. At least test out the onboard before going out and getting a card. It would be like 'hearing' that onboard NIC's are crap, believing it, and getting a $50 NIC when you have just as good (if not better) networking onboard.

Does that abit board come with the SATA drivers on a floppy already? If not, I hope it's not your only pc (doesn't look like it is). If it is, you better pull the drivers off the cd and put them onto a floppy before you start your build/rebuild. Otherwise, you'll have to put the old system back together again, or bother a friend to put the drivers onto a floppy for you. The extra step taken by MSI on that, and other things, really makes them stand out from the croud. Plus, the long warranty term on sub $300/server class mobo's is a great thing.

From what I've seen of monarch computers, I won't purchase anything from them. Just as well, since I can get about 95% of everything I need from a distributor that has a warehouse in the same state as me. If there's something they don't carry, I usually get it from newegg or a couple of other sources. Hell, I can even get the distributor to come down on prices just by asking my rep. Try to get monarch (or any other online store) to do that and hold the phone while they roll around laughing at you.

Good luck, anyway, with the next build. I have a feeling you'll be posting up questions or comments about issues from what you're putting together...

 

[akira34]

At least the hard drives have a 3 year warranty (ALL Seagate carry a 5 year warranty)...

Any reason you're not going with a 6800 series card (GT or ultra)??
Any idea if that nec drive can burn 8x rated media at 16x?? Plextor dvd burners can... My 708a can burn 4x +r media at 8x...

 

[stevennoland]

Originally posted by: maxcom
pc-60 has no reset button?

What is a reset button for? Oh yea! I remember now.

 

[stevennoland]

Get a Lian-Li PC-V2000/2100. Nuff said.

 

[VStrom]

Originally posted by: akira34
At least the hard drives have a 3 year warranty (ALL Seagate carry a 5 year warranty)...

Any reason you're not going with a 6800 series card (GT or ultra)??
Any idea if that nec drive can burn 8x rated media at 16x?? Plextor dvd burners can... My 708a can burn 4x +r media at 8x...

I was going the Seagate route but the Maxtor seems to be one of the best performing 7200rpm drives out there mostly due to the 16MB buffer. This is my opinion based on web reviews etc - there is one such review Here. I haven't any personal experience with either brand so I have no personal bias. The drives I have now are WD (which are going strong!)

I went with the Radeon for a few reasons
1) Price vs performance - the X800 performs on par with the 6800's for most apps except maybe Doom 3 and is a good bit less expensive. One example
2)I have an older Radeon card in my current PC and I have had 0 issues with it and have been happy with ATI stuff in the past. Prolly doesn't amount to a hill of beans but it was my mindset just the same.

I'm not sure about the NEC burning 16x on 8x media but I'm the type to buy the higher speed rated media anyway. I a bit of video editing and when I burn DVD's I'm more concerned about quality over speed.

 

[VStrom]

Originally posted by: akira34
I, initially, only planned on running my two 160GB Seagate SATA drives in RAID 0... That changed when I installed WMCE05 and realized how much space can be taken up by recorded tv. I then added the pair of 250GB WD SATA drives. Since I have room, I'm thinking about adding another pair of 250GB SATA drives soon. If I can find a use for the two 160's then I'll just run the 4 250GB drives as a single array and have a full TB of storage. If I don't find a use, I'll probably either put them into external enclosures, keep them in reserve, or install them on a SATA RAID card and just share them out. That would give me 1.3TB of storage inside my home pc/windows box.

Point being, unless you're needs are static for the next X years, plan to upgrade. A built-in upgrade path is ALWAYS a good thing. Being able to make it easier later is never a bad thing.

I can't argue with that. However, I own a DVR so I won't be doing any recording of the old tube (I haven't even turned on my TV for a week - waiting for the new epsiodes of Lost ) Also, I have an external WD 200GB HD that I use to store MP3's, some archived video, etc. I'm going keep my "old" PC going so I can share it back and forth if needed and I won't be installing a ton of apps on the new machine. Mainly games, video editing software and any other more CPU intensive apps.

Originally posted by: akira34
As for the bios updates... Anyone with any experience, or reasonable level of intelligence can follow the instructions on updating the mobo bios. It's really NOT that difficult. If you have problems doing it, maybe you should rethink putting systems together. After all, what's the point of building one if you can't even do the minor updates without boning the works...

Yeah, I'm sure I can do it. I wouldn't make the attempt if I didn't feel confident about it. I've been fiddling with computer guts for years but I never actually built one from scratch so I guess I'm not exactly a noob in that respect.
The bad part is that most all my friends/acquaintances are basically computer illiterate (a few don't even own a comp :Q)so they are entirely no help when it comes to borrowing parts, etc. So, if something is not working quite right, I prolly won't have the spare parts to swap for testing. This is why I'm not concerned too much with a fancy case 'cos no one who sees it would actually appreaciate it except maybe my wife. That means I have to rely on research and chatting with fine folks on the net to make sure I'm am prepared from the get go. Have I said thanks yet? If not I appreciate everyone's input, this is a good forum. :beer:

 

[akira34]

I've had bad experiences with Maxtor drives in the past, which is why I stay clear of them. If you plan to do video editing on the new system, the more storage you have in it the better. PLUS, having 4 drives on the RAID 0 will give you better performance than having just two drives on it.

I used to be a die-hard ATI fan, until recently. To get an affordable ATI card (not made by ATI) they sacrifice other aspects in the card that makes it just not as good. I had a 9800 Pro until I wanted to try WMCE05. I needed to get a different card, since the one I had didn't have a MPEG2 decoder built in (hardware). Running a software decoder is just plain crappy, so I picked up the 6800GT card (on the list of compatible with WMCE05) and it's been good ever since. The card performs better in all things, so I'm happy with it. Plus, I didn't spend the money that the 6800 Ultra's go for (couldn't justify that).

As for you having a PVR/DVR, is that one that you have to get a subscription to use?? If so, you'll pay more for that then it cost me to alter my system to do the same function AND I have much more storage available to me. I'm about to move about 150GB of recorded tv from my boot volume to the storage one. This is stuff that's been recording for the past month or so that I haven't had a chance to watch yet. I set it up to record and keep until I tell it to delete. How much can you keep on that box you have?? The PVR aspect of the system is probably what will drive me to get the 1TB for a boot volume sooner rather than later.

As for never building a system before... RTFM for everything before you start. Open up the case, find where everything goes and plan it out. If you don't, chances are it will take you 5x longer than the rest of us to put the system together (instead of 3x). One bit of advice... Install the processor and memory onto the mobo BEFORE you put it into the case. It makes things a hell of a lot easier that way.

 

[VStrom]

Hey, thanks for the advice. My DVR is through the cable company so I do pay a little extra a month for it but it's not bad, plus it doubles as the cable box which gives me an extra one for my MBR. I have an HD receiver for my main TV. The bad part is I maybe watch 3 hours of TV a week. Which makes me wonder why I ponied up 3 grand for my TV. :roll: I have a few shows that I watch and I really have the DVR to record them when I'm not around (which seems to be often these days).

As for reading the manuals, I'm with you there. I have already downloaded the manuals for the CPU and mobo and have read through them once already. On top of this I have linked several sites with very good building instructions and tips. It's amazing the information that is available. It's cool that people take the time, expense and effort to provide the data for basically free. Hopefully, I'll be able to reciprocate someday in the near future.

I guess we've gone a little off topic here!

 

[VStrom]

Well, I got it all setup successfully (still waiting on my RAM and vid card). Except for the deal with the HD's not being recognized it was no prob. Prolly would have taken me only about 6 or 7 hours if it wasn't for that (not counting, drivers, XP install and drive formatting). Phew!