Need *PROFESSIONAL* weightlifting advice!

[Maverick2002]

For those here who actually do serious weightlifting, I have a few questions. I myself have been doing it for a little over a year (well, 4 months total, with weekend workouts during the school year) and went from being 5'9" super skinny (115lbs) to 140lbs in 3 months. That was my first attempt and I did so many things wrong it's not even funny. And I bet I still do a lot of stuff wrong; not nearly as much as the other people I see though. Then school started and with sports I didn't have time to lift so I stayed at that weight. Now I'm back to training, already up to 150lbs in about a month's time (still the same height). Trying to go for 165-170 by the end of August-mid September. Is it possible? Anyway, I now follow a 3-day routine:

Day 1: chest/back
Day 2: legs/stomach
Day 3: arms/shoulders

I do mostly free weights, with a few machines here and there (for instance, leg press because free weight squatting hurts my shoulders/upper back). So, my questions:

What do you do to build your calves? I can do toe raises with as much weight in each hand as I can hold for a minute (usually 75lbs) without a problem, yet my calves aren't big at all. We also have this machine but I doubt it does anything. Is there a way to do it on the leg press or something?

What do you do for triceps? I used to do dips w/extra weight, but the last 2-3 reps I usually strain and end up hurting my neck or something, so I stopped doing that. Cables don't seem very efficient either. Now I do that overhead arc lift and the isolateral press (kind of a machine, works mostly triceps and some deltoids, like a vertical bench press).

What do you do for your lats? I pull 75lbs each side 10 reps no problem, but it doesn't hurt like it used to. The reason I don't go up in weight is because even with straps I can't hold any more in either hand.

I know strength training is usually 4-8 reps, but do exercises like those for calves need more? Because I know for a fact I can't hold the amount of weight I would need to only be able to do 8 reps, and my legs are still small.

Perhaps I'm just complaining and trying to rush things, but after a session with a guy 3x my size about bench pressing I found out some important things I was doing wrong. Not that I want to be that large (and genetically, I don't think I could even if I wanted to).

Oh, and as far as supplements go, this is all natural, unless you consider a kid vitamin every morning and 1-2 Powerbars/day to be supplements. I just eat a LOT of meat. I need suggestions!

 

[Yossarian]

It would take a book to answer all that so I'll just touch on calves. First, big calves are more due to genetics than anything else (true of most muscles in general but more noticeable for calves). You will see improvement through training but it's possible that they will always suck.

Main muscles of the calf are the gastrocnemius and the soleus. You need to work both. Standing calf raises & donkey calf raises hit the gastros, seated calf raises target the soleus. Soleus comes into play when the leg is bent. Donkeys are when you are bent 90 degrees at the waist with weight at the top of your butt. You need a machine or a training partner to sit on you (I'm not kidding!).

You need massive amounts of weight, hundreds of pounds. Your calves are one of the most hard-worked muscle groups just from walking around all day. Movements w/weights in your hand aren't going to cut it. Leg press is good (depending on the type you have), just load it up, bend your knees slightly and press off the bottom edge of the foot plate. Some people like to change their foot angle (pointing in, out, or straight ahead) on different sets but it never did much for me.

Stretching is essential, during and after sets. Go as deep as you can on each rep. Spend your between-set time stretching 'em out.

 

[danzig]

Lots of anabolic steroids

 

[RegaPlanet]

As an overall agenda you gotta mix it up more than just with different exercises and putting more weight on. Change your entire routine for say like a month. For example you mentioned you do low reps like 4-8 for strength. Well every 3-4 months consider changing to a more endurance routine doing up to 20reps+ or doing giant sets or super sets. You wont hit all muscle fibres just doing heavy low rep lifting. That mostly hits fast twitch muscle fibres and also promotes the production of more which you want however you will always have slow twitch also which are more for endurance and are hit by doing higher reps. The switch will also be a good shock for your body. Your max lifting weight may go down a little when you do this but it'll come back up to where it was and go beyond again within a couple months. Every 4 months I switch to a high rep routine. Works really well and gives great muscle tone and separation.

 

[MrBond]

For triceps, I do what we call tricep suicides. It's a series of three exercies, done laying down on a bench all in series.

You take a curl bar with weight on it and lie on your back. Grip the bar at shoulder width. Hold the weight out straight like you were bench pressing it, then bend your arms at your elbows (keeping your biceps as straight as possible), and touch the bar to your forehead. Go back up with the bar. That's a rep.

Next, bend your elbows, and take the bar all the way behind your head as far as you can go. If you have trouble imagining this, take both your arms now (sittng in your chair), bend them at a 90 degree angle, now rotate your arms up so your biceps are perpendicular to the floor. That's the motion you want to be doing. Bring it back up again, that's a rep

For the final set of exercises, take the bar and pump it up and down (just like doing a bench press except your gripping the bar closer) as fast as you can. Once down and up is a rep.

I usually do 10 reps of each exercise. The number of sets you do depends on your workout intensity. At the end of the last group, you may need help with the weight bar, so it helps to have a spotter. This is an exercise where you're going to want to start out with smaller amounts of weight and move up, because that first part could hurt pretty bad if the bar came down quickly on your forehead. Another good reason to have a spotter there. Once you get comfortable with it, a spotter isn't as nessecary as it is with some other exercises.

 

[MooseKnuckle]

Maverick,
You went from 115lbs. to 150lbs. 'all natural' in 1 yr., that's a great gain. My question is did you get your bodyfat measured when you first started lifting? If so, recheck it to see if in fact you're gaining muscle and not fat. If your gain is muscle, then keep doing what you're doing...cuz nothing is wrong. As for your workouts, I would recommend doing push-pull type of training. Do chest/triceps, back/biceps then shoulder/legs. Stomach you can train everday, but I really don't see the purpose in doing so. If you are willing to increase the number of training days, do legs and back twice a week. Because your legs and back are the two largest muscle groups in the body, training these 2X a week you should have better results in overall body mass. Finally, eat, train and sleep. Rest is very important for muscle growth. Eat quality protein at every meal and especially after your workout. Drink lots of water, before and during your workouts, studies show that your training is more efficient when you're hydrated. Good Luck and get your bodyfat checked so you can monitor your progress.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

I don't think putting on 20 lbs in 2 months is possible (at least all muscle), but it depends on your body type. (You could be the type that adds on muscle easily, which I guess you are) Most professionals only add about 10 lbs of muscle per year in their body building.

Squatting is the essential leg excercise - it's a total body excercise with primary emphasis on your quads - it's impossible to build large legs without squats. If it hurts your traps then use a bar pad. (Usually $10-$15 at a sporting good store) It's supposed to hurt a little bit, but no pain no gain.

Calves - PipBoy hit it on the nose about calves. That's the one bodypart that everyone has trouble building size in. Unless you're a soccer player most people won't have large calves.

Triceps - close grip bench presses are one of the best. Kneeling cable extensions (kneeling so to help you keep your balance and keep control of the weight) Skull crushers (what MrBond calls tricep suicides) are also very effective. And if you're hurting your neck when you're doing dips - you're doing something very wrong - make sure your spine is straight and your head up and looking fowards.

Lats - barbell rows, pull downs, pull ups, and dumbbell rows are the main essentials everyone should have in their lat routine. Barbell rows are done by bending over at the waist with your knees slightly bent holding the barbell below your chest. (Keeping your back straight) Pull it up to your abdomen, hold, then lower. As with all lat excercises, at the peak of contraction, pull your shoulders back and push your chest out - that will make it hit your lats hard.

You should probably have a guy who knows what he's doing critique your entire workout (every excercise) - see what you're doing wrong/right, and suggest diff. excercises to complement/replace the excercises you're currently doing.

 

[Zebo]

You want to bulk super quick? Do only 6 exercises.

Squats
Bench
Military press
Power cleans
Barbell curles
Tricep Curles

The key is to put so mcuh wieght on you can only do 3 repitions without help. But you're doing 8 no matter what. This mthod needs a very good spotter who makes you work till your arms are going to fall off.

Monday ALL 5X8
Wendsday ALL 5X8
Friday ALL 5X8

I guantee you'll have 17" pipes by the end of the year. I went from 165 to 210 every year in HS ding this Wresting and football doin't mix too well.

 

[Maverick2002]

For clarification, when I said 3-day routine I meant 3-day repetitive routine. As in, no days of rest. I'm on a 3-day cycle non-stop. Last year when I started training I didn't know jack so I trained every muscle group every day. And it worked for like 3 months, then I plateau-d. It's a lean muscle gain, not body fat. I don't eat anything that's not healthy (most of the meat I have is cooked, not fried). I really think giving 2 days rest before repeating is sufficient.

I do use a bar pad. Naturally, I can do like 2-3x the weight on the inclined leg press we have, but I'd like to continue squats. It just hurts my back. A little note on my history: when I was born I had problems with milk and the available formula wasn't rich in calcium, so my bones got all fvcked up with the weight I put on them. Luckily my grandma helped me out during toddlerhood so I don't have crooked legs now. I'm fine now and I get mass calcium but my back isn't 100% straight (just slightly hunched, nothing you'd notice really, and with a strong back it looks like all muscle). That may be the reason. Is there another way to squat w/o this discomfort (trust me, it's really bad) or find a good substitute?

Sucks about the calves, I really want to add some mass there. I'd hate to have big quads and puny calves. Won't they also expand a bit on their own as I gain weight?

I'll try the dips again. Are you supposed to be leaning forward any or straight up and down? The other reason (for leaning forward) is that I usually do it with a 35lb weight in-between my legs. That was I don't do 20+ reps, just 8-10.

For lats, the pull down cable machine never really worked, first I pulled all the way down and ended up finding out that that works biceps more than lats. Then I did half way and felt nothing. Hmm. All I really do now is dumbell rows (75lbs each arm) but I'm a bit confused. I mean, I stay flat and keep my head up (there's a huge wall mirror at my gym so I can make sure I'm not wobbling) yet this guy who's 3x my size only pulls 5lbs more than me. I asked him if I'm doing something wrong and he said no. I doubt my back is that strong though. I'll try the barbell rows tomorrow, that's my chest/back day.

Oh, and I weighted myself today. 152lbs (that's 1.5lbs more than a couple days ago). Crazy I tell ya ...

 

[Cable God]

Well, if you don't squat, your quads will never look as good as the rest.

If you are looking to put on size, try this:

Monday - Legs (Quads, Hamstrings, calves)
Tuesday - Back and Traps
Wednesday - Chest
Thursday - Shoulders, Delts
Friday - Arms (Bi's,Tri's, Forearms)

Sat&Sunday Off

Use however many pounds it takes so you can only squeeze out 6-7 reps per set for 4-5 sets per body part and then work that part a different way.

Never Train arms and chest on the same day. Chest actually works your tri's because tri's are the key to your bench weight. Also, eat good. Get 1.5-2 grams of protein per lb of body weight. Try the tried and true suppliments: Protein, Glutamine, ALA, etc. I suggest you check out http://boards.elitefitness.com.


You need to concentrate on the basics. Deadlifts, squats, incline bench, dumbell bench, leg press, etc. Free weights are your friend. If you work your legs good, ie: squats, deads, etc, your core strength will drastically improve.

 

[Angrymarshmello]

I kind of dislike the 3 day repetitive routine. Your muscles grow during rest periods, not when they're being worked out. You need to add in a day of rest between every day of working out to give your muscles a rest and let them grow properly. And only giving yourself 2 days of rest before repeating the cycle is bad imho. Think of it this way: in a 2 week period, there are 14 days. You're working each muscle group 3 times in 2 weeks. (3 days working out, 2 days off, 3 w.o., 2 off, 3 w.o. = 13 days) You shouldn't work each muscle group more than once per week. Having a day off between workouts is definetly beneficial. What cablegod said works too but that means you're hitting the gym 5 days a week as opposed to 3. (I personally don't have that kind of time)

My back isn't 100% straight either, although I didn't have the same calcium deficiency you're describing at an early age. How thick is this bar pad you're using? (The one I use is about an inch of padding, very firm) Make sure when you do squats that you pull your shoulders back to give the bar a nice base to rest on. You might also want to try diff. positions of resting the bar on your traps. (Ideally it should rest square on top of your traps) What part of your back hurts when you do it? Whenever you do squats, have your feet shoulder width apart, knees slightly bent, back straight. When you squat down, start by pushing your butt out. Ok that sounds weird but try this: stand like you're doing a squat. Then stick your butt out while squatting downward. (Your butt will be the first part of your body which moves) Your back should be straight on the way down and on the way up. (The same technique you use in romanian deadlifts) Also, you may be using too much weight to start off with - just because you can leg press 300 doesn't mean you can squat 300. There are no substitutes for a good squat. There are excercises like the leg press, dead lift, leg extensions among others which will hit your quads but nothing will ever take the place of them. You can also try "sissy" squats - holding dumbbells in each hand to squat - but unless you're ultra strong most people can't hold 100lb dumbbells in each hand for more than 20 seconds.

Your calves will grow in size along with your legs, but they're tougher to train than any other body part.

On dips - you'll have a natural tendency to lean foward, since your legs are bent and your upper body weight is shifted foward, but it's pretty much just moving straight up and down.

Lats - what kind of hand grip are you using? Over or under? (Under = palms facing you) Under will primarily work your biceps more than they will your lats. (Same with chinup vs pullup) Try different grips - some people have the best luck with a wide grip (meaning on the bent handles) and some with a medium grip. (Right next to the handles) I recently found that a medium grip seems to definetly hit the lats harder. (They've definetly responded better) As with all lat workouts, make sure you pull your shoulders back and push your chest out at the peak. Barbell rows are the key lat workout - just like bench press is to chest, squats are to legs, curls are to arms - barbell rows are to lats. It's a compound movement and a basic like what cablegod said that is key to a good foundation. Regarding that huge guy who only does 5lbs more than you - it's more about what you do with the weight than how much weight you do it with. I know guys a lot smaller than me who put up more weight than I do. Just make sure you hold a second at peak before slowly lowering the weight during dumbbell rows.

Honestly though - if it works for you, keep doing it. Some things work better for others. If what you're doing now works great then keep doing it, but everything that everyone has suggested is just something to keep in mind.

 

[LordMaul]

For Christ's Sake, people, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION!!

 

[Mister T]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl
You want to bulk super quick? Do only 6 exercises.

Squats
Bench
Military press
Power cleans
Barbell curles
Tricep Curles

The key is to put so mcuh wieght on you can only do 3 repitions without help. But you're doing 8 no matter what. This mthod needs a very good spotter who makes you work till your arms are going to fall off.

Monday ALL 5X8
Wendsday ALL 5X8
Friday ALL 5X8

I guantee you'll have 17" pipes by the end of the year. I went from 165 to 210 every year in HS ding this Wresting and football doin't mix too well.

Dont forget the Deadlift.. great lift

 

[5489]

what was ur diet like, when you gained that much weight.

 

[Maverick2002]

So far the 3-day routine is working for me and I doubt I'll change it until I either a) stop gaining weight (unless I'm at a desired level) or b) my muscles start hurting = not enough rest/overworking. So far it's been working out pretty good, I went up 30lbs in bench press over the past month. That's from 135 to 165, so it's a big step for me.

The bar pad I use is about an inch thick; after I'm done my upper traps hurt, not tired hurt though, more like too much pressure was put on them. Also, how far down do you go on a squat? Just below parallel or complete crouch position?

Again, sucks about the calves. Oh well, more toe raises for me

As for dips, on this chart at my gym it's listed as both a tricep and chest exercise with a picture of the guy leaning forward. I know that after I do dips I feel my chest (the inner part, where the pecs separate). It just seems awkward going straight up and down.

On the lateral pull down I'm using over hand position. But still, how far down do you go? Until you make a 90 degree angle with your arms or lower (as in, have the bar down past your chin)? Also, do you pull in front or behind your head? I'll try the barbell row today.

I have a super high metabolism, so I eat a LOT, usually 7-8 full meals a day, every 2 hours. Sometimes I will substitute a meal for 4x snacks every 30 minutes (like an egg, fruit, yogurt, etc). 4000-6000 calories/day. The usual diet:

1 egg <--static
1 kid vitamin every morning <--static
yogurt (depends, could be 1-3 cups/day)
fruit (1-2 banana, peach, etc)
2x bags of oatmeal + 3x slices bread (breakfast)
drinks: tea, apple juice, Mountain Dew (don't even tell me to lay off Mountain Dew, not gonna happen)
1-2x Powerbars (right before lifting, to get some energy)
1oz of junk food/day (like a small bag of chips, or some sugar)
2x bowls of spaghetti + ground beef
2x bowls of soup (contents: cabbage, potatoes, carrots, ground beef/shredded beef, some spices, very thick with little broth) + bread
2x chinese food (either chicken egg rolls or chicken teriyaki w/veggies and rice)
frozen cooked burgers (White Castle)

Between those last four sets I sometimes variate, depending on what's left in the fridge. And of course I get some fast food 1-2 times a week.

As for fat, it doesn't get deposited, just burned up as inefficient energy. Long long time ago my diet was like 80% junk food and I put on no fat. I just lacked nutrients (signs: somewhat brittle nails, etc) and was super thin.

How much grams of protein should I take in per day?

 

[RegaPlanet]

With dips lean forward just so it feels natural. Don't force yourself forward or you'll put more focus on the shoulders. If you do dips straight up and down it puts more focus on the tri's.

Other problem yer having with lat pull downs and feeling it in your bi's too much... focus on pulling more from your elbows. As for how far down you go.. Pulling down to anwhere that meets with your pecs is good. Do what you find you feel most.

 

[Descartes]

I have a super high metabolism, so I eat a LOT, usually 7-8 full meals a day, every 2 hours

With all this working out and eating, do you actually have time for a job?

 

[Maverick2002]

Eating doesn't take more than 10-15 minutes, depending on the food preparation required. I don't spend more than 2 hours/day from the minute I leave my place to go work out to the time I'm back home.

 

[monotony]

Dips are done differently depending on the target muscle group. If you are working tri's, you should be pretty straight up and down, and only bend the elbow until your biceps are parallel to the ground. For working chest, you bend all the way, and only go up to where they are parallel to the ground.

As far as rest, I'm siding with those that say get more. Your muscles need more than 2 days to rebuild or your workouts aren't intense enough. Either way, if you are currently making pretty good gains, then taking an extra day off in between will speed up your progress. Also, think about taking a week off every 6-8 weeks. When you come back after that week and your muscles are totally repaired, you will be much stronger than before the break. I garauntee it.

 

[Maverick2002]

I get to do dips tomorrow, hopefully I can do them right. It also seems like I can do a lot more weight with barbell curls then with dumbells. I do like 8 reps dumbells each hand 30lbs (alternating: one up, other down, when one comes down, the other goes up) but I can curl 70lbs barbell 8 times no prob. Weird. It doesn't look like I'm using my back either (as some people do).

As for the barbell rows, bringing it up to my stomach (vs. my chest) is a lot harder and I have to take off 20lbs. What does that mean? That I'm using my traps to bring it up to the chest and more lats to the stomach? Or what? Also, I feel my lower back afterwards as well; is that normal?

I'm taking Sunday off to go running. Just weighted myself ... 154lbs :Q

 

[Angrymarshmello]

Bringing it up to your stomach hits your lats - chest hits your traps like you stated. Most lat excercises like barbell rows, dumbbell rows, & cable rows should be aimed at bringing the weight to your stomach. When you say lower back - does it hurt? (It's not supposed to)

 

[Maverick2002]

Ok, that's what I figured. Looked in the mirror and I have these two "bumps" between my shoulder and neck. Guess those are the traps I'll try the lats but they seem to require more work. I do have a question though: will working my back a lot eventually straighten my bones out a bit? Or at least give me better posture? I think one reason my back was curved as a child (aside from the calcium deficiency) was because I was really thin and had like no back muscles. After I do barbell rows my lower back doesn't "hurt", it just feels like it's been strained (like I've been working it, as in good mornings or something). LOL guess I've been working my traps all along with those 75 pounders. Hehe no wonder I was pulling so much.

 

[Futher]

Best combo is....

Monday : Chest/tries
Tuesday: Others (abs)
Wednesday : Back/Bies
Thursday: Others
Friday:Legs/Shoulders
Saturday: Aerobics
Sunday:Aerobics

 

[MooseKnuckle]

I went up 30lbs in bench press over the past month. That's from 135 to 165, so it's a big step for me

Yeah, ok I want the name of that kid vitamin you're taken. If you increased your bench press by 30 lbs. in 1 month and aren't taken any "supplements", keep doing what you're doing. You don't need help from us.

 

[Maverick2002]

The vitamins are some cheapo stuff I got from Wal-Mart, OneSource "Active KIDS". Cherry, grape and orange all in one box
I think one of the reasons I went up 30lbs in bench is because before my grip was too close so I was straining my triceps a lot more than my pecs. Also, I saw some guys doing this weird thing with the barbell: they'd move it up and down really quick but only half way (you know, all pecs up to the point where you triceps kick in) for like 15-20 reps. In addition to regular bench, does that help any?