Need New Build Advice - Another AMD or Intel?

[EJtheK]

Hello all,

I’m sure this kind of thing is posted all the time, so I apologize … but I could certainly use some input.

Primary Use: Gaming (ArmAII, StarCraft II, Civ 5, etc.), Photoshop, Web Development

Future Use: Will make it a media center (down the road will add a Blu-Ray player, etc.)

Budget: $1k (would love to go under -> means earlier Blu-Ray upgrade)

Goals: “Futureproof” (as much as it can be done ), Solid gaming rig

Country: US

Existing Parts: Will reuse a CD drive, keyboard, and mouse until a later date

My Biggest Debate: Phenom II X4 965BE (w/ $134 mobo) vs. i5 760 (w/ $114 mobo)
… Intel seems to win out performance-wise and will only increase cost by a net $30 given mobo drop. But I’ve been an AMD guy in the past. Hmmmmm….

Here’s the system as it stands now:

---

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE | 3.4GHz Quad-Core
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103727
or
i5 760
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115067
-----(I am having an internal debate here. I hate to break my budget, but going with an Intel i5 760
------seems like it may a better choice performance-wise. This would run me more money though,
------and if the difference is negligible, perhaps I should stick with my gut on the AMD.)

Motherboard: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131631
-----(If I change to i5 760, I’d likely go for something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131634
------It’s worth noting that I save $20 on the mobo if I go with that and increase $50 on the CPU.
------This means the switch to Intel is a net $30 gain (I can do that) if the mobo I picked is good.)

Memory: G.SKILL DDR3 1600 | 4GB (2x2GB)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231277
-----I may buy two of these. Worth it yet?

Video Card: Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5770 (not exactly sure which one of the two below)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102858
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102873
-----I may increase this in a few days when prices drop with the release of the HD 6000 series

Hard Drive: Western Digital WD6400AAKS | 640GB 7200RPM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136218
-----I am very willing to switch based on recommendations

Wireless Card: Rosewill RNX-6300LX | B/G/N
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833704059

Case: Antec Three Hundred
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042

Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU-650TX | 650W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005

Monitor: ASUS VH242H | 23.6’’ LED
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236052

---

Thoughts!?

Thanks!

-EJtheK

PS: If I save the money and don't switch to Intel (net $30 gain), perhaps I should use the opportunity to increase my video card to the XFX HD 5830:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...4150497&cm_re=xfx_5830-_-14-150-497-_-Product

 

[shaftymcnasty]

The case, PSU and monitor all look like solid choices to me. For RAM, why not spend the extra 5 bucks and get these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820226103 They are CAS 7 and have a $15 rebate!

 

[EJtheK]

Good call! Thanks. I will do that. Not sure what I was thinking...

Thoughts on the CPU/Mobo/Video Card?

 

[shaftymcnasty]

I'll let others chime in on the CPU/Mobo/Video card as I'm not up to date on the newest chipsets, etc. I'm looking into the Phenom II 955 myself. Seems like a good bang for the buck to me... Are you going to be overclocking this rig or?

 

[EJtheK]

I do not plan on overclocking right away. Down the road, this is likely. Initially, I will shy away from it.

 

[EJtheK]

BTW, should I go for 8GB or is that overkill and 4GB is a fine start for now?

To others: my Phenom II X4 vs. i5 760 conundrum is driving me bonkers. Any thoughts?

I'm really hoping to see a drop in video card prices after 6000 series launch.

 

[Axon]

1. Absolutely wait until tomorrow to order a GPU. The NDA on the 6800 series is widely believed to drop tonight at midnight, and experts are expecting price drops across the board. Further, a 6850 (or GTX 460) will almost certainly serve you better than a 5770.

2. The i5 750 is a superior chip, and for only a difference of $30, I would grab it. I love AMD as well, but when I built my LAN system, the price difference was $100 or more. You can even find a brand new, in box i5 750 on the for sale forum for $170 or so. Also, Microcenter retails the chip for $170 as well.

3. Do not buy a 5830.

 

[mfenn]

1. Absolutely wait until tomorrow to order a GPU. The NDA on the 6800 series is widely believed to drop tonight at midnight, and experts are expecting price drops across the board. Further, a 6850 (or GTX 460) will almost certainly serve you better than a 5770.

2. The i5 750 is a superior chip, and for only a difference of $30, I would grab it. I love AMD as well, but when I built my LAN system, the price difference was $100 or more. You can even find a brand new, in box i5 750 on the for sale forum for $170 or so. Also, Microcenter retails the chip for $170 as well.

3. Do not buy a 5830.

4. If you're going to get an i5, make sure the RAM runs at 1.5V. (That rules out the Mushkin kit).

5. $70 is too much to be spending on 640GB drive. You can get a faster Samsung F3 1TB drive for the same amount.

 

[EJtheK]

1. Absolutely wait until tomorrow to order a GPU. The NDA on the 6800 series is widely believed to drop tonight at midnight, and experts are expecting price drops across the board. Further, a 6850 (or GTX 460) will almost certainly serve you better than a 5770.

2. The i5 750 is a superior chip, and for only a difference of $30, I would grab it. I love AMD as well, but when I built my LAN system, the price difference was $100 or more. You can even find a brand new, in box i5 750 on the for sale forum for $170 or so. Also, Microcenter retails the chip for $170 as well.

3. Do not buy a 5830.

4. If you're going to get an i5, make sure the RAM runs at 1.5V. (That rules out the Mushkin kit).

5. $70 is too much to be spending on 640GB drive. You can get a faster Samsung F3 1TB drive for the same amount.

Thanks for the help guys. I truly appreciate this. A few questions:

1. Did you mean 5850? The 6850 will probably exceed my budget. (very sad ) Thanks for the advice too; I'll wait!

2. Thanks for the input. I think i5 is looking like the pick. Did I get a good mobo picked out for it?

3. Why not on the 5830 if I don't mind asking? No good?

4. Bummer on RAM. Thanks for the catch though! I'll shop for something else. Think 4GB is ok for now? I can spend a bit more to get <1.5V and Cas 7 if 4 is enough.
New proposed RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226122

5. Thanks. I will switch.

 

[Axon]

1. Nah. The 6850 looks like it's going to be priced at $200. Performance remains to be seen, but leaked slides place it even or above the GTX 460 1 gb ($220-240 card). 6870 looks like it's going to crush the 460 or at least spank it across the board. Nvidia will have to drop its price on that card.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=30626273&postcount=665

http://translate.google.com/transla...om.tw/phpBB2/viewtopic.php&#37;3Ff=71&t=54616 Keep in mind the competing GTX 460 1 GB is overclocked by approximately 13%. So it wins some benches, of course...but I have to admit, I was impressed by the 6850's performance. Now if they get the pricing right, I might just gobble one up.

2. The motherboard looks excellent.

3. 5830 is a gimped card for its price. It does not perform much better than a 5770, but costs significantly more.

4. RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277

5. Hard drives are 10% off for the next 3 days with promo code EMCZYNZ73

 

[EJtheK]

Thanks again!

1. Great information. I'll watch this.

2. Thanks.

3. Also good info. Thanks.

4. Any reason to take that memory over the Cas 7?

5. Again, thanks! You're very helpful!

 

[mfenn]

The Mushkin is good and a decent price AR for DDR3 1600, but I'd probably just save the money and grab some 1333 for $66.

 

[EJtheK]

Thanks for the input, mfenn. I will consider this as a way to save!

Well, it's looking more and more like I'll go the Intel route. In the meantime, I'm going to wait and see what happens to video card prices.

Here's a quick question to you all... (I may still go AMD based on this). If I dig up some extra cash, is it better spent going to i5 and keeping the video card at the 5770/5830 level or is it better spent going with AMD and upping that video card to a higher level?

Also, any thoughts on Sapphire vs. HIS vs. XFX on those ATI cards?

Thanks!

-Erik

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for the input, mfenn. I will consider this as a way to save!

Well, it's looking more and more like I'll go the Intel route. In the meantime, I'm going to wait and see what happens to video card prices.

Here's a quick question to you all... (I may still go AMD based on this). If I dig up some extra cash, is it better spent going to i5 and keeping the video card at the 5770/5830 level or is it better spent going with AMD and upping that video card to a higher level?

Also, any thoughts on Sapphire vs. HIS vs. XFX on those ATI cards?

Thanks!

-Erik

AMD + faster GPU will be a better gaming experience than Intel + slower GPU.

As for brands, XFX has a slight edge, but they are all pretty good.

 

[EJtheK]

Thanks! I'll watch the prices (hoping that release happens tomorrow as anticipated!). I'll revisit upon some price drops and then pull the trigger.

Again, thanks for the help. I may run my final build idea on this thread in the days ahead if you all wouldn't mind checking it out...

Any words of wisdom and advice are still more than welcome!

 

[muskie32]

A combo that may interest you:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboB...t=Combo.514080

Leaves you $370 for the ram, and video card (and perhaps a different HDD?)

 

[mfenn]

A combo that may interest you:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboB...t=Combo.514080

Leaves you $370 for the ram, and video card (and perhaps a different HDD?)

I find that those super combos are rarely worthwhile. They usually have one undesirable or overly-expensive component that spoils the deal.

 

[EJtheK]

Thanks for the input muskie32. I definitely appreciate it.

Unfortunately, I ran the numbers on my case, PSU, mobo, CPU, and HDD, and I'm currently under the level of that combo. Again, thanks though!

 

[EJtheK]

Boy is that interesting!

Anyone think I should make the jump up to the HD 6850? $179 to outperform the HD 5770 without having to do the HD 5830 nonsense. Hmmm...

This also begs the 6850 vs. 5830 question. You guys mentioned that the 5830 doesn't perform better enough (over 5770) to justify the cost. But, after rebate, it's now cheaper than the 6850; yet it specs out better (closer to 5850, but not quite). Like many things, the specs may not be all that govern, but still a question...

Or perhaps I should hunt through the price drops to come from nVidia... Or watch the 5770 drop and then get two to Crossfire. Oh golly! Choices...

Advice anyone!? This is definitely where I can easily get hung up and confused... :\

PS: This has me leaning towards the AMD build and spending the extra cash to go to the 6850. Wise? O dear! ... ... ...

 

[crucibelle]

EJ - I would take a look at some benchmarks. There are some good ones right here on Anandtech. Out of the games you mentioned, they do have a Starcraft 2 benchmark. Now, they do have the i5 you are considering on that benchmark, but not the 965. They do have the 970, though, so you can sort of make a comparison based on those two: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/129

You mentioned Photoshop, so here is the Photoshop benchmark. This one has the i5-760 & the 965: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/25

I'm not sure what you'll be doing in regards to Blu-Ray, but here is a Blu-Ray disc image creation benchmark (Sony Vegas): http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/44

The i5 is definitely faster, but IMO, there's not a huge difference in performance between the i5 & 965 BE. However, you might think differently. Of course, there are more benches than the three I linked above; I just wanted to give you an idea.

 

[betasub]

This also begs the 6850 vs. 5830 question. You guys mentioned that the 5830 doesn't perform better enough (over 5770) to justify the cost. But, after rebate, it's now cheaper than the 6850; yet it specs out better (closer to 5850, but not quite). Like many things, the specs may not be all that govern, but still a question...

Performance, not specs, are what you should be looking at (although the 16ROPs of the 5830 are a pretty poor spec, leading to gimped performance).

The 68x0 has improved efficiency, both in terms of performance and power, so its hardware specs may not seem all that impressive. You should only be getting a 5830 if it comes at an irresistable price & you are fully aware of the downsides/inefficiencies of the card.

 

[Axon]

Boy is that interesting!

Anyone think I should make the jump up to the HD 6850? $179 to outperform the HD 5770 without having to do the HD 5830 nonsense. Hmmm...

This also begs the 6850 vs. 5830 question. You guys mentioned that the 5830 doesn't perform better enough (over 5770) to justify the cost. But, after rebate, it's now cheaper than the 6850; yet it specs out better (closer to 5850, but not quite). Like many things, the specs may not be all that govern, but still a question...

Or perhaps I should hunt through the price drops to come from nVidia... Or watch the 5770 drop and then get two to Crossfire. Oh golly! Choices...

Advice anyone!? This is definitely where I can easily get hung up and confused... :\

PS: This has me leaning towards the AMD build and spending the extra cash to go to the 6850. Wise? O dear! ... ... ...

Anytime the competitor has to ship a massively overclocked GPU and beg review sites to only compare the overclocked model to its competitor's new product...you probably have a winner.

I would scoop up the 6850. It's an impressive card, priced well, and has some large overclocking room. Remember, it can challenge a highly overclocked GTX 460 1GB, and when overclocked, likely challenges a GTX 470. At a much lower price and power/performance ratio. And the trusty 5770 just got left in the dust. RIP.

I actually wish I had waited before buying my GTX 460 - thank god I got it for $190 three months ago or I'd feel totally foolish. I would have instantly scooped up two Gigabyte 6850s last night. Ah well. I'll just SLI the 460.

 

[Evilhomer99]

I actually wish I had waited before buying my GTX 460 - thank god I got it for $190 three months ago or I'd feel totally foolish. I would have instantly scooped up two Gigabyte 6850s last night. Ah well. I'll just SLI the 460.

Your not the first person I've seen suggesting two 6850's in CF. Is this option worth the cost of getting two vs getting one higher end card?

 

[EJtheK]

EJ - I would take a look at some benchmarks. There are some good ones right here on Anandtech.

Thanks, Crucibelle! I did some looking around yesterday and today. My only problem with benchmarks is that I can never tell what's significant enough for me to notice. I think my conclusion is that I will not notice much of a difference with 965BE instead of the i5, and therefore I'd benefit from saving some money on the CPU and spending more on the GPU. Sound reasonable?

Performance, not specs, are what you should be looking at (although the 16ROPs of the 5830 are a pretty poor spec, leading to gimped performance).

The 68x0 has improved efficiency, both in terms of performance and power, so its hardware specs may not seem all that impressive. You should only be getting a 5830 if it comes at an irresistable price & you are fully aware of the downsides/inefficiencies of the card.

I fully understand now, and after reading your post, reading the previous posts again, and doing some more research, I completely agree.

I would scoop up the 6850. It's an impressive card, priced well, and has some large overclocking room. Remember, it can challenge a highly overclocked GTX 460 1GB, and when overclocked, likely challenges a GTX 470. At a much lower price and power/performance ratio. And the trusty 5770 just got left in the dust. RIP.

Thanks, Axon. It's looking like the 6850 just found a home in my new build. Now I need to look through the prices and brands.

---

To all, I think I have a new proposed build. I am assembling the details and will post it for review if you don't mind.

 

[crucibelle]

Thanks, Crucibelle! I did some looking around yesterday and today. My only problem with benchmarks is that I can never tell what's significant enough for me to notice. I think my conclusion is that I will not notice much of a difference with 965BE instead of the i5, and therefore I'd benefit from saving some money on the CPU and spending more on the GPU. Sound reasonable?

Absolutely, EJ. I think that is a wise decision & it's the same conclusion I would have come up with after looking at the benchmarks. :thumbsup: