Need lots of suggestions for a new network.

[leglez]

This topic is being continued from the previous one in General Hardware: Here

Ok the business I am working for we are remodeling a new building for our studio. We do Audio/Video/Photography work. We have been working out of a spare bedroom in my boss's house for the past 3 years. We are moving into a 6,000SQ FT building and we have gutted the whole building and remodeling the whole thing and want to network the building so that we will most likely never have to re-run cables for at least like 10 years.

We are going to have a video editing room with ~6 Mac Pro's. We are going to have 1 Mac Pro in the audio computer room. We will also have ~5 Powerbook G4's that float around that room and the rest of the building. We will also then have a desktop PC in the 2 sales offices, and another in the lobby in the front of the building for the receptionist. They will most likely be running Windows XP unless Vista gets suggested. In the editing room we will also have 2 printers (haven't decided on the actual printers yet). We will also have another Mac Pro in the Executive Producers office on the second story which is right above the main lobby.

Here is an image of what our finished studio is going to look like for the most part. Also none of the rooms have ceilings on them. The only room with a ceiling is the audio room. All the walls are 8' tall, and the executive office doesn't have a wall on it on the side closest to the studios. Studio.jpg

Should CAT5 or CAT6 cable be used for all the networking?

We are going to need a NAS that all the computers in the building have access to and it needs to be somewhat fast. Each project is ~10GBs and needs to be able to transfer reasonably fast over ethernet. The NAS needs to be able to support a lot of space. We are going to start off with either 750GB or Terabyte drives, need at least 2TB's starting but it has to be upgradeable in the future with either more drives or adding another NAS. We also need to be able to switch in and out hdds. Once we finish a project we will throw it in an archive drive which will be placed in storage at the Executive Producers house and pulled out maybe once a year for updating.

What should we use for a router? Internet doesn't have to be blazing fast on all the computers. We will probably go with a T1 connection. But it needs to be wireless and needs to be able to get a connection throughout the entire building. The building is 100' long and 40' wide. Also we plan on having a networking room with all the networking equipment in it. If you look at the picture it is going to be in the back part of the Executive Producers' office in a room that is about 10'x13'. So would we be able to put the wireless router up there and then a bridge in the editing room or the suite and be able to get a connection through the entire building? If we do use a bridge what should we use?

What should we use for a switch? Preferably something with 10/100/1000 and have all the desktops connected to that along with the NAS. And in the Video Editing room there will be a place that the laptops can be brought in and plugged into an ethernet line to grab files off the drive.

What type of switch should we use to connect to printers to all the computers?

Is there any other networking hardware we will need to look at getting?

Also it isn't neccessary, but would it be possible to access the NAS from home? Like say I have one of the laptops at home with me and I need to work on something can I connect to the NAS and download the project and work on it and then reupload it?

Overview of questions asked

• CAT5 or CAT6?

• What should be used for a NAS?

• What router?

• What bridge?

• What switch for the computers and NAS?

• What switch for the printers?

• Any other equipment suggestions?

 

[Fardringle]

If you are running new cable, there really isn't any reason to do anything but CAT6. Unless of course you really want to plan ahead and run fiber instead, although that will cost a bit more.

I don't have much experience with NAS options so I can't really help you there.

I personally like using an older PC as a router and installing a Linux distribution like Smoothwall or pfsense for small offices. It's essentially free (if you already have a stable old computer to use) and works extremely well. If you want to spend a little for a "commercial" option, Sonicwall makes good routers.

Every situation is different for wireless. There's no real way to know what will work in your situation without actually being in the finished building to configure the number and location of wireless access points to cover the whole space. For a 6000 square foot building with multiple walls between rooms, you'll probably need several access points placed throughout the office in order to have wireless access in the whole building. I would guess at least two on each floor depending on how thick (and what materials) the walls and floors are, but again it's impossible to say for sure without actually trying them in the finished building.

You said that you'll be frequently transferring 10GB project files across the network so you'll want to have gigabit switches in the networking/server room and adapters in all of the desktop machines. I usually go with whatever is on sale at the time and I haven't been "shopping" lately so I can't really give you a specific recommendation on this one right now. I'm sure other people will have their opinions, though.

If your printers are network capable (i.e. they have network adapters built in) you can just connect them to the office network and they'll work fine. There's no need to get a separate switch for them unless you don't have enough ports on the gigabit switch(es) you use for the desktops.

You can connect to the network from home using VPN, but you probably won't want to download or upload any of those large project files that way unless you have a fast Internet connection (both upload and download speeds) in the office and at home. Under perfect conditions (i.e. won't ever happen) it will take about 15 hours to transfer one 10GB file across a T1 connection.

 

[spidey07]

woah, woah, woah, slow down. This is a very easy/small network.

There is NO reason not to use a single layer3 switch for all of the clients - printers, macs, etc. None.

Get you a Cisco 3750E with a wireless controller integrated - this will handle all of your LAN needs. Run 2x cat6 to every single location you think there would be a computer or possible access point.

You're done. As far as the routing let the provider give you a router with their service. Literally two pieces of gear and you're done. Put access point where ever you like.

 

[Fardringle]

The Cisco 3750E that Spidey mentioned sounds like a good choice to have everything in one device. It has 48 gigabit ports and the devices you listed (including printers) only need 18 so it gives you lots of room to expand as needed. I don't have any experience with Cisco wireless access points since my small office clients insist on getting the cheapest possibly equipment that will still work and Cisco's stuff isn't cheap, but if Spidey says it will work in your office I won't argue with that.

 

[leglez]

Ok thanks for the great suggestions! Yeah Fardringle I am looking at a couple of the cisco retailers online and it looks to be pretty expensive. I would love to get that rather than a bunch of little devices, but the thing is getting the boss and financing guys to understand. Could you please link to a good place to buy the 3750E from, or should I buy it directly from Cicso? And what is the price that I am looking at paying for it? I looked on a couple different sites and it looked like it was going to be somewhere between $4,000 - $6,000.

 

[spidey07]

go to CDW to get an idea. I hate to be a cisco pusher but it is SO easy and will give you trouble free for what you're asking for. Price wise, c'mon this is your network and in your industry (I've done design for large pre-press/video, very demanding) you don't skimp here. Seriously, there is no excuse for any network to "do down", in this day and age it just doesn't happen unless the design is fubarred or you ask to much from a piece of gear.

Your layer3 switch could be from any of the big 3 and the wireless can be from cisco or aruba. If you want to do it correctly and worry free then there steer clear of SOHO gear.

 

[leglez]

Is this it? http://www.cdw.com/shop/produc...fault.aspx?EDC=1162502 if so there is no way we could get that right now. Maybe once we get in the new building and start doing more projects. We are planning around 100 projects this year and each project brings in around $2,000, so like $200,000 and that is also our budget for the whole remodeling process. The most I could probably get away with spending on the network right now is around $5,000. Like I said I would love to go with Cisco because I have heard nothing but good things about them.

 

[jlazzaro]

you lost me john...i fail to see how a stackable 10-gigE switch is fitting his needs. im all about planning for the future, but thats overkill. also, the only 3750 series with the integrated wireless controller is the normal G series, and 24 ports at that. to me, a 3560-48PS seems like a better fit.

does that $5000 include network hardware, NAS, and wiring? hmm....

 

[leglez]

Well I looked around and found 1,000' Boxes of CAT5 cable for around $100-$200 and I figure probably 2-3 boxes to wire the whole building. I am not sure how much more CAT6 costs, or where I should go to buy it in surplus. But I was figuring ~$600-$800 for the wiring. I am thinking about changing some stuff around and putting a little closet in the editing room and putting the networking gear in there so I don't have to run as much cable.

I figured around $500-$1,000 for the NAS, not including the hdds. The HDDs are in another budget and we are getting (4) 750GB Seagates for the NAS. So $500-$1,000 for the NAS base unit.

And I figured around $3,000-4,000 for the rest of the hardware.

Edit:

Also I just looked at the 3560-48PS and the price on that looks a lot better. Depending on the cost of the wiring and NAS we might be able to purchase that. So where should I go to purchase CAT6 cables? Also where should I get cable tips from or whatever? I already have the crimper but I am out of tips and have only used the ones that came with my set.


Edit Again:

Ok I found these:
1000' of Cat 6 cable $154.99
20 Pack of RJ45 jacks $5.95

And it looks like shipping is pretty cheap. It looks like it will be $11.00 for 2 boxes of each.

I am still figuring probably 3 boxes. Not sure how much it will take. But I think that should be good.

Here is a summary of where all Cat6 needs to be ran:

12 on editing room walls
8 in center editing room island
6 in lobby
5 on other editing room wall for printers and expansion
5 in executive office
2 in first story suite
2 in audio room
1 in first sales office
1 in second sales office
1 in top story suite
1 in basement

Which is 44 total, so lets say 100 jacks total.

The price comes up to about $500 with shipping so thats even less than I was figuring. So depending on the price of the NAS we should be able to get the 3560.

 

[skyking]

Please don't crimp on modular ends if you want a reliable network. skimping on the physical layer is bad news.
Install the wire properly, using keystone jacks and finishing the run with patch cables.
Terminate all the runs in a patch panel at the network closet, and mount the patch panel and switch on a wall bracket or a swing out rack.
Buy a cheap tester and wiremap all your connections at the very minimum.
barebones wiremapper.

 

[leglez]

Thanks for all the links! How exactly do you install keystone jacks? I have crimped cables before but never used keystone jacks before. I know I have the 110 punch down tool. Do you just lay the cables in the jack in the same order and put the punch down tool in and push down or what?

Update:

Actually I found this guide. I am guessing that is what I am going to have to do correct?
Here

Also where could I buy a pack of keystone jacks from? Or is 100 for $2.06 each the best price you can get?

Other than that everything looks great

Another update:

Ok I was looking around on NewEgg as NAS units. I found this one

NETGEAR RND4000

It looks like it is perfect, 1 x 10/100/1000M, 4 SATA ports, and supports Windows, Mac, and Linux. Does this look like a good drive to anyone else? Also has a 5 year warranty.

 

[Genx87]

How many total users will be on the network? A NAS device is just a device, it wont really give you central management of the users and resources in the network. You can run macs on a microsoft windows 2003 network using a 3rd party tool like Admitmac.

As for the physical network. Unless you know wtf you are doing, it may be worth paying a contractor to run the lines.

 

[leglez]

Starting off there will be ~20 users max on the network. But we will start expanding eventually and need room for more. We aren't really looking for central management. We are just needing storage for all the projects that all the users can access, because we have different people that do everything in the project and right now working out of the spare bedroom we just use file sharing on the macs and just transfer files like that which isn't bad, but we only have 3-4 people working in the spare bedroom at the same time right now. Once we move into the studio we will have everyone working at once and the filesharing through mac would just get too complicated.

Thanks for the idea on the contractor too! What would I search for? Would it be like a multimedia contractor or someone that does home theatres or what? I live in a small town in kansas and there are really no big computer places around here. Do internet companies offer to do it? Also should I have them run the lines and put the keystone jacks on? Or could I run the lines and have them just put the keystone jacks on?

Sorry for all the questions, just new to the whole thing.

 

[Crusty]

Any low-voltage electrician should fit the bill if you are looking for cheap work! I've always done all my cabling myself, it's not difficult at all if it's planned out right.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: Genx87
As for the physical network. Unless you know wtf you are doing, it may be worth paying a contractor to run the lines.

Yeah. Unless you work for free, you'll eat up more of your company's money by doing it yourself than if you pay somebody with experience.

As noted by others, don't allow ANYBODY to crimp any network connectors onto any cables.

I don't think you are going to find any low-end NAS units that will give you file transfer speeds that you are expecting.

If you can't afford the cost of Cisco switches, then wire the network properly, get switches that you CAN afford, and plan on upgrading them in the future. You can always sell the "old" switches later. Switches are pretty easy to change out.

 

[leglez]

Ok thank you! How much should be shelled out for a nice NAS that will provide good speeds?

 

[leglez]

Are there any good guides that I could read about setting up office networks? I took a networking class a few years ago but they only taught about simple home networks like setting up routers and modems. Nothing about switches or firewalls or servers or anything.

 

[jlazzaro]

Originally posted by: leglez
Are there any good guides that I could read about setting up office networks? I took a networking class a few years ago but they only taught about simple home networks like setting up routers and modems. Nothing about switches or firewalls or servers or anything.

you have to be more specific about what information you're after. the topics you mentioned above span a myriad of technologies and encompass enough material to keep you busy for literally thousands of hours.

 

[spikespiegal]

I can't resist adding something to this discussion.

First, please don't use the term 'Performance' and 'NAS Appliance' in the same sentence. With most of things running 400mhz processors the term 'gig' network is almost contradictory as well. If you want to waste money on a NAS appliace and will be slinging big files, then try to go iSCSI. If not, then use a cheap PC running any of a bajillion Linux distros to fill the task. The later is MUCH faster and flexible in the long run.

When it comes to cutting holes in walls and running network cables through plumbing and god knows what electrical cabling in the drop ceiling, I hire an electrician/contractor who needs the work. I love you guys who insist on doing this yourself - easy enough to tell because the RJ45 plate usually ends up handing flacidly off the wall through the ragged hole with just a splash of latex paint on the cables to try and hide the mess.

 

[Night201]

Also, plan on getting "Plenum" cat6 cable. Most building codes require it. If you pricing regular cable, your costs just went up a little bit more. As others have stated, I would recommend an electrician who is experienced with cat5/6 installations. It's not worth your time or energy on a project like this if you're new to it. If it was just 6-12 runs and you had time to rerun stuff or experience downtimes or delays, go for it, but I'd go for the speed and piece of mind of having it down right the 1st time.

 

[spidey07]

I don't know if I've brought it up but I've done a lot of designs/work for pre-press and video companies. OP - keep this in mind. Your network is the life blood of your operation, every minute it isn't performing as best it can or is out of service is money lost. Don't skimp on your cabling - run cat6 and have a pro do it.

Without significant experience or the correct testing gear cabling can cause you a world of headaches. I remember being called into a large printing operation and they were having severe performance problems, the entire net would just up and stop working for minutes at a time, jobs couldn't be completed on time, etc. They just told me - whatever it takes, fix it. After I looked at their main cabling room I just told them to redo their cabling, that is what it is going to take...just to start. They didn't like that answer, so brought another seasoned veteran in. Same answer. Then a 3rd. Same answer.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Night201
Also, plan on getting "Plenum" cat6 cable. Most building codes require it. If you pricing regular cable, your costs just went up a little bit more. As others have stated, I would recommend an electrician who is experienced with cat5/6 installations. It's not worth your time or energy on a project like this if you're new to it. If it was just 6-12 runs and you had time to rerun stuff or experience downtimes or delays, go for it, but I'd go for the speed and piece of mind of having it down right the 1st time.

Plenum CAT 6 STP not UTP


http://www.computercableinc.co...p?id=2282&sub=Specials

EDIT: I don't think you need Plenum if you run the cable through conduit. Conduit may also help control signal noise.

 

[Googer]

<-- Puts Up SH*T shield....


CAT6 is rated for 250MHZ and Monster Cable has in their catalog a spool of cable that is rated for 350MHz and it's also very cost effective. Perhaps this may be the way to go?
http://www.broadbandutopia.com/caandcaco.html
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=426

 

[spidey07]

It's not unusual for manufacturers to scan their cable to 350 Mhz and above. Belden datatwist350 has been around for at least 10 years.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It's not unusual for manufacturers to scan their cable to 350 Mhz and above. Belden datatwist350 has been around for at least 10 years.

I am aware, but Isn't that cat5? Not the same as CAT6

http://www.broadbandutopia.com/caandcaco.html