Need help with my PC surround sound

[MoreCowBell]

So i finally bought a 5.1 setup for my computer and i opted to go for the Logitech Z-5500's. Along with these, i have an HT Omega Striker 7.1 soundcard and Windows Vista Home Premium.


I got the speakers all setup, turned on my computer and went away at configuring them. I was using the optical cable to stream DTS sound to the Z-5500's, but then i started reading up.

I was told (by various other forums) that for movies, the optical cord along with DTS or DDL is the best choice for sound......but for gaming (which is all my computer is meant for), using a 6ch direct setup is much better, and is the only way to get TRUE 5.1 sound in games.
Is that true?



Well, i decided to switch my hookup to the 6ch direct cable and started to reconfigure...

When i go into windows sound and configure my speakers, i notice that under "5.1 Surround Sound", it only lets you have side speakers hooked up, no rears. To use rear speakers in Vista, i have to set it at "7.1 Surround Sound" and deselect the side speakers options.
The problem with this is that whenever i do surround sound tests or music, Vista still thinks its a 7.1 setup and because of the lack of side speakers, it plays extra sounds out of the center speaker.
So i switched it back to "5.1 Surround Sound" and plugged the "rear speakers" cord from the Z-5500's into the "side speakers" output on my Striker 7.1. This is the only way i can use the "5.1" surround sound option in Vista....but its not how my speakers are setup.


What i need help with is how should my speakers be setup?
I know that with the 6ch direct cable, the front, rear and center/sub jacks should all be plugged into their respective inputs/outputs, but when i try to use my speakers in this way, Vista wont accept it and will only play 5.1 sound if i plug my rear speakers into my side speaker outlet on the Striker 7.1.

What am i doing wrong?
How can i get my setup to work just like a home theater........fonts are front, center is center, sub is sub and rears are rear (not sides)?





Also, how come in some games and movie clips/music, i get sound out of everything accept the center speaker (even the rears play sound)?
The mode on my Z-5500 is always on 6ch Direct Input (not PLII or 2x stereo).

Thanks for the help.....ive never been this confused with computer audio before.




I just need an idiots guide on getting everything to work the way it should with these speakers and vista.
Please.

 

[PurdueRy]

You missed the point being made in those analog vs digital threads. Unlike most sound cards, you bought a card capable of streaming DTS or DD. Therefore you do get surround sound our of games over a digital connection. However, I wouldn't say it was the wisest thing to get one of these cards in your situation. Considering it appears that running analog cables would have been just as easy, you could have gotten a card with much better analog sound quality for cheaper than the Striker. Anyway, what's done is done so we'll move on.

5.1 audio has no "rears". It has surrounds. Surrounds are placed directly to your right and left of the listening position or slightly behind it. 7.1 adds rears which are placed to your right and left BEHIND you. So you should be selecting the default 5.1 setup for your configuration.

I wouldn't say there is going to be a big difference on the card you bought between streaming DDL/DTS and using the analog connection. You can try both and see if you can tell a difference. Maybe have a friend switch the connections blindly.

About your sound problem, what do you have the digital output set to in the sound card drivers? Make sure that you have no environmental effects set. Good choice with setting it to only 6CH direct, that is correct. If you could, taking a screenshot of each of your sound card driver screens makes it easy to see if there are any settings you have wrong there.

 

[MoreCowBell]

Well, i did have my environmental settings to "room" (on accident i think). I changed them to nothing, but i cant test it till the morning (the misses is sleeping a few feet away).

If this doesnt fix the sound problem, i will take screenshots.

If this does fix the problem, sound quality aside, will using an optical cable and DTS vs. analog and 6CH Direct change anything......ie - surround will still be true 5.1 in either case and stereo music will still play the same, right?
Which one would you use?

Or, how about i put it this way........i have the extra money to invest in a better sound card, so if i stikc with analog, should i and which one works BEST with VIsta?



And one last thing.......how come Bioshock is the only game ive played so far where the sound only comes out as 2.1.....even though i have 5.1 set in the settings?
Just curious if there is a known issue or a tweak i need to do to get surround to work.


Thanks so far!
I'll report back in the morning.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
Well, i did have my environmental settings to "room" (on accident i think). I changed them to nothing, but i cant test it till the morning (the misses is sleeping a few feet away).

If this doesnt fix the sound problem, i will take screenshots.

If this does fix the problem, sound quality aside, will using an optical cable and DTS vs. analog and 6CH Direct change anything......ie - surround will still be true 5.1 in either case and stereo music will still play the same, right?
Which one would you use?

Or, how about i put it this way........i have the extra money to invest in a better sound card, so if i stikc with analog, should i and which one works BEST with VIsta?



And one last thing.......how come Bioshock is the only game ive played so far where the sound only comes out as 2.1.....even though i have 5.1 set in the settings?
Just curious if there is a known issue or a tweak i need to do to get surround to work.


Thanks so far!
I'll report back in the morning.

Ok sounds good. Report back with your findings. Make sure that whatever setting you pick(analog or digital connection) that you can hear the 5.1 sound test in the sound card drivers coming out as it should. If you use a digital connection it should be set to DDL or DTS interactive when playing games. If you are playing movies you don't have to have it set to this as the Dolby digital stream should come through automatically(I have the Auzentech X-Plosion which is basically the same card as the Striker.

With the current card you have, it does not matter if you use digital or analog in terms of surround sound. You will get it from games out of both. Yes and I do mean true 5.1 surround sound.

Let me do a quick explanation of the difference to using both.

Digital connection:
Movies and music and sent as the normally would be to the Z-5500's. The Z-5500's will then convert the DTS or DD to an analog signal to be sent to the speakers. If you are playing movies the PCM signal(music is in stereo) is converted to analog and sent to the speakers(no DTS or DD decoding needed.

For games, the sounds and encoded into DD and/or DTS. DTS is less compressed so should be the best choice. However, this is a lossy process so some sound quality is lost. The Z-5500's will decode this stream and convert it to analog where it will be sent to the speakers.

Analog connection:
The sound card converts the DD/DTS movies to analog 5.1 and sends them to the Z-5500's which sends them to the speakers. Music-wise the sound card converts the digital music into analog and sends it to the speakers.

For games, the sound is processed by the sound card and sent to the speakers uncompressed in true 5.1 surround sound.

As you can see with this quick explanation, the signal will always be converted to analog at some point. You want the best conversion to analog possible. When people buy sound cards, one of the main features is typically the digital to analog conversion quality. A good sound card will do this much better than the Z-5500's. So technically, provided that it's not hard to connect the speakers via analog, that is usually the best option provided you have a decent sound card or integrated sound. I myself use a digital connection because I tried an analog connection and it frankly is a pain to run 6 analog cables to a receiver(making a miniplug to RCA conversion in the process) 20 ft away. Computer speaker systems typically make the connection easy as it is simply miniplug to miniplug and they are often placed much closer to the computer.

Best cards in vista is a little tough of a question. My first suggestion would be a X-fi xtrememusic/gamer. While I have heard mixed accounts with those cards and vista I believe they have most of the problems ironed out. The only thing I never liked about Creative cards was their bloatware. The sound card driver settings are very "fancy" looking but overly so.

If you want a high quality sound card that's not Creative I would look into the HT Omega Claro or the Omega Claro+. Another option would be the Auzentech X-fi prelude or Meridian. All these cards have EXCELLENT analog sound quality. However, the do carry a much higher price tag than the aforementioned Creative card.

I'm not entirely sure though that you would hear the difference in sound quality with the Z-5500's. If you aren't that picky, I would say stick with your current card. It is a well built card. Hook up the card with analog and digital. Don't set the digital connection to DTS or DD, set it to 44.1KHz digital out. Then play some music and switch between the connection methods on the Z-5500's control pod. See if you notice a difference that favors either one(beware volume changes affecting your decision making process). If you notice one is better than stick with that connection type.

Technically the analog connection should be better in your case...but most likely marginally so.

EDIT: Let me just add, I am not saying your missing out on an amazing increase in sound quality because of the card you picked. It may or may not be worth it in the future to change it for the reasons I have mentioned here. However, if your music collection is all compressed audio and you're not that critical over other sources then I think you will be more than happy with the current card.

 

[MoreCowBell]

Ok, so i disabled the environment setting and went back and played a song.......now its only playing out of the front left and right + sub.
Thats correct though right? Since music is stereo, it should only play out of a 2.1 setup with 6ch Direct....but if i put the effect to PLII on the Z-5500, then it would play out of all 6 speakers (it still wouldnt be true 5.1 though)?
(The same as using optical and any signal that isnt true DTS would play in stereo unless PLII was used, right)?

Am i good so far......?





Now, using Windows Sound settings, if i play the 5.1 test, each sound comes out of its perspective speaker.
However, if i use Rightmark 3-d sound positioning tester (i downloaded it), whenever i position the sound behind/beside me in the tester, i hear sound out of both of the side speakers, while one side is significantly louder then the other, both sides still play the same sound as if it was coming from both sounds positionally. Is that just faulty software?

Do you have any recommended software/test files i could use to make sure that what i should be hearing in games and movies is what will actually come out of my speakers?


*UPDATE*
As far as surround sound goes, i put in 2 movies (Hot Fuzz and Savign Private Ryan) and both played in true 5.1 surround (Saving Private Ryan was amazing, haven't watched that even on my home theater setup in a long time).
I then put in Call of Duty 4 and that played in surround sound as well (i had to turn the center speaker up a bit.....my only complaint is the center speaker is barley more powerful then the surrounds and fronts, a good setup should have a much bigger center).

But with Crysis and Bioshock (even with 5.1 set in Bioshock) all i am getting is stereo sound. No center or surround is coming (just faint hissing when i put my ear to it, meaning no signal is being sent to them). Crysis doesn't even have a 5.1 setting to select.
Is there some sort of editing i have to do to the .ini files of these games?

And with my Steam games (Portal and the Half Life 2's), when i set 5.1 and hit apply, it keeps reverting back to 2.1. Any idea on this either?





Lastly..........If i wanted sound from all 6 speakers during stereo playback (ie, my music), i could set PLII as the effect, but when i go and play a game or watch a movie (anything with 6ch support), will the Z-5500 automatically switch to the 6ch effect or will it remain on PLII?





And im not that picky on sound, so i will keep this sound card. Its drivers have worked excellent so far in vista.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
Ok, so i disabled the environment setting and went back and played a song.......now its only playing out of the front left and right + sub.
Thats correct though right? Since music is stereo, it should only play out of a 2.1 setup with 6ch Direct....but if i put the effect to PLII on the Z-5500, then it would play out of all 6 speakers (it still wouldnt be true 5.1 though)?
(The same as using optical and any signal that isnt true DTS would play in stereo unless PLII was used, right)?

Am i good so far......?

All is good in soundland. That is exactly what should happen. Nothing is "true 5.1" unless it was recorded that way. Which most music is not.

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
Now, using Windows Sound settings, if i play the 5.1 test, each sound comes out of its perspective speaker.
However, if i use Rightmark 3-d sound positioning tester (i downloaded it), whenever i position the sound behind/beside me in the tester, i hear sound out of both of the side speakers, while one side is significantly louder then the other, both sides still play the same sound as if it was coming from both sounds positionally. Is that just faulty software?

Sounds like faulty software. I assume that the windows speaker setting and your HT omega drivers are set to 5.1 configuration?

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
Do you have any recommended software/test files i could use to make sure that what i should be hearing in games and movies is what will actually come out of my speakers?

Plop in any THX DVD and run the optimizer. That has a channel level check. You should use this to balance out the volume of each of your speakers.

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
*UPDATE*
As far as surround sound goes, i put in 2 movies (Hot Fuzz and Savign Private Ryan) and both played in true 5.1 surround (Saving Private Ryan was amazing, haven't watched that even on my home theater setup in a long time).
I then put in Call of Duty 4 and that played in surround sound as well (i had to turn the center speaker up a bit.....my only complaint is the center speaker is barley more powerful then the surrounds and fronts, a good setup should have a much bigger center).

Turn up the volume of the center if it is too weak

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
But with Crysis and Bioshock (even with 5.1 set in Bioshock) all i am getting is stereo sound. No center or surround is coming (just faint hissing when i put my ear to it, meaning no signal is being sent to them). Crysis doesn't even have a 5.1 setting to select.
Is there some sort of editing i have to do to the .ini files of these games?

I don't have either of these games so its hard for me to help. Have you updated your drivers to the latest from HT OMEGA? I would look at the game specific forums to see if anyone else has a similar problem.

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
And with my Steam games (Portal and the Half Life 2's), when i set 5.1 and hit apply, it keeps reverting back to 2.1. Any idea on this either?

I think I remember some issue about this. Again, make sure the games and drivers are updated fully and check out the game specific forums. You could try the digital connection and enabling DTS interactive to see if that works. This wouldn't be so bad considering you can be hooked up via analog and digital at the same time. Just switch between the inputs.

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
Lastly..........If i wanted sound from all 6 speakers during stereo playback (ie, my music), i could set PLII as the effect, but when i go and play a game or watch a movie (anything with 6ch support), will the Z-5500 automatically switch to the 6ch effect or will it remain on PLII?

No it won't. Unless you switch to a digital connection, the receiver has no way to know what the incoming signal format is. It's simply playing whatever signal it gets. To easily test to see if this is the case, enable PLII on the control pod and do the speaker config test in windows or on a THX DVD. If you hear sound coming out speakers where it shouldn't...particularly the center...then its not playing properly.

Originally posted by: MoreCowBell
And im not that picky on sound, so i will keep this sound card. Its drivers have worked excellent so far in vista.

Sounds good :thumbsup: