Need help with L4D final defends

[43st]

So this is embarrassing, but my friends and I are having a rough time on the last level of "No Mercy". There are 3 of us, and one ai.

We're playing on a local server, and we're getting our butts kicked on the final level. We can manage the Tanks without much issue, and even the hoard isn't so bad. It's the damn smokers and hunters that screw us up. I think it's because we naturally spread out to cover more approach angles, so when one of us gets dragged off it takes two people out of the game. The downed person and the rescuer. We do try to stay in the same area generally.

We've seen the helicopter several times but we've been smokered and huntered, before we've made it out to it. Maybe playing with 3 is bad as the ai gets stuck a lot and generally makes our life worse than when he's dead.

So.. does anyone have any hints on this? Any how-to write ups? This was Expert first, but we've dropped back to advanced.

 

[nerp]

Get in the house, all of you, close all the doors and don't venture out. Collect gas cans, propane tanks and make sure to have as much health and pills as possible before radioing for the chopper. I find that if the team just holds down the fort, saving pipe bombs for critical moments, you shouldn't get too dominated by the smokers and hunters. Spreading out is the worst thing to do here since the hordes come from all angles and anyone will get isolated and incapacitated very quickly. Stay together near the health and ammo and try to pick off the hunters and smokers from your trusty vantagepoint at the house.

 

[43st]

You mean stay in the stairwell? We've been doing that, we have one guy up, one guy down, with the third floating between the two positions depending on where the action is. This works well until we leave for the Tank, in which case we're still vulnerable to hunters and smokers, more so than the tank. Do you travel in a tight group when you leave the 'house' as you call it?

 

[Maximilian]

Well ive seen two versions of this rooftop, i think it differs slightly in versus mode because it didnt have the higher up part on the top of the mounted gun building. Im not sure. Anyways when i did it on advanced we all went to the top level on the building with the mounted gun. The top level is 1 higher than the roof that the mounted gun (so you shouldnt be near the gun, it should be below you) is on, forget the gun its not that useful. Put a petrol can below you where the mounted gun is and shoot that when the first wave come, then its just hold the roof until help arrives, its easier because the horde have to climb up 2 levels to attack/distract you instead of just 1. Make sure someone has an assault rifle to take down smokers, 2 assault rifles and 2 shotguns are the best bet.

You might wanna abandon that position temporarily when the tank comes, it can knock you straight off the hospital roof.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Couple of tips here:

1. you really all need to stick together

2. if you're not all together, you need to at least be in permanent pairs except for desperation acts. With a buddy system one can always quickly and easily save the other should one be pinned by a hunter or smoker, however the problem here is that both can be pinned at the same time (especially in vs. mode)

3. pinned players are the biggest priority for several reasons (they will die quickly, they're 100% helpless, they cannot shoot back like when they're knocked down, if you save them quick enough they'll receive zero damage and be perfectly fine - able to get back up by themselves) so you need to keep an eye out for these situations and react ASAP. The absolute best counter to a player being pinned is to use mouse 2 to bash/melee them as it will break the connection every time and will never team damage the player being pinned. Problem there is that it leaves the hunter/smoker alive, however they will be stunned or unable to retaliate right away and are thus relatively easy to finish off or simply run away from.

Tips for the hunter and smoker...

Hunter:
1. obviously, kill it before it pins anyone
2. if it pins someone, a pointblank shotgun blast should kill it in any difficulty with one shot and rescue the player right away
3. if you're close enough to the pinned player (as you should be), melee it off and then pump several bullets into it to finish off the job (or my favorite, punch it to death)
4. with practice, you can punch these things out of the air as they go for their pin

Smoker:
1. again, kill it before it pins anyone - smokers will tend to stay as far away as possible, so long range weapons are best - use the pistol and crouch if you have to (if you have a shotgun)
2. again, if it snags someone with its tongue, and you're near that pinned player, bash/melee them to break the tongue's connection, then worry about either fight or flight.
3. if you have a clear shot at the smoker making the pin, go ahead and take it, best weapons are obviously going to be the assault and hunting rifles, otherwise employ the other two tactics.
4. if you're not close to the smoker and can't quite make out where it is, and you're too far away from the player or can't quite make it to where he is, (or perhaps you're too engaged in repelling an onslaught), shoot the tongue, or even shoot at the player snagged by the tongue...

 

[I4AT]

Grab a pipebomb from the roof before answering the radio, save it for later.
Get in the closet on the bottom floor where the ammo and health kits are, not the hallway. Just stand behind the doorway and melee anything that comes in. Usually a smoker can't get an angle on you in that room, and even if he does manage to grab somebody that gets into the open, if somebody is melee spamming the doorway he'll be freed before he ever gets pulled out of the room.
Same thing with a hunter, he has to pounce on somebody inside the small room where he's an easy melee target. Fight off each wave until you hear the music that signals the Tank is coming. Exit the building where the tank is easier to manage and try to stay close in case a random smoker manages to pull somebody away while you're fighting the tank.
Once the tank is dead rush back to the closet and repeat the process until the chopper arrives. Make a dash for the ramp on the other side, throw the pipebomb to distract the horde while the team runs to the chopper.
This tactic works for a few different missions, just find any small room where you can all huddle up and melee anything that comes in. In the third chapter we like to hold the wide open area across from where the ammo and health kits are, you'll know it when you see it.

 

[RS8]

You could use the closet "trick" to deal with the hordes.

I stayed on the roof with the turret on expert though.
Two left (one by the barbed wire, other by the pipe to deal); the latter to deal with people climbing up, the smoker that usually jumps on the highest roof and the area with the vents.
One on the turret (shoot everything)
Last guy on the right. Covers turret and right back side.

Know where your molotovs and pipebombs are (if they spawned). Place any gas canisters and tanks (if spawned) by the long heli ramp, and to the left where the vents are. Don't waste your shots on guys climbing up to reach you, melee them and shoot anything far enough to give you time and space.
Don't bother jumping in to rescue someone unless you either distracted them with a pipebomb or the wave is about to finish.
Split up and kite the 2 tanks that show up in Expert. If he picks up debris, don't jump, don't stand there and shoot (unless he's not facing you), get behind something because it has an awesome way of curving and hitting you.
After you down the first Tank, get back to your rooftop positions.
Restock on ammo when you feel like there's a pause in the middle of the waves. Until then, rely on melee and dual pistols.
Kite and molotov the second tank.
Restock and take up positions at the roof again until the helicopter comes. I wouldn't recommend anywhere else, especially with how wide open the helipad is. While the closet can get you stuck in the radio room when you want to get out.

If you're lucky, you might not see any Tanks at all, sometimes they jump off the building.

 

[Eeezee]

Last night one of our guys got glitched in this area by a smoker that was pulling him up toward the top of a structure. The smoker died while he was halfway up the building. He ended up being trapped there, no one could reach him

 

[43st]

Thanks for the ideas, we are doing almost all of that and it does work very well. What we've missed though is the 4th human, so we really can't use much of a buddy system because the single ai player just does his own thing. We'll try it some more.. the odd part though is that the entire level is getting fairly easy, it's the last part where we're not a good team. It could be the personalities involved, heh.

 

[AnthroAndStargate]

I think it helps if one guy gets on the top top roof. Nothing can get up there from the back (that I have seen) and he can shoot anything at any angle. He can watch the backs of all the team on the platform.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Here's what we did and it worked *very* well.

All four of you in the small staircase inside of the house. Two at the top, two at the bottom, all armed with auto shotguns. Let the swarms build up a little at the door and then gun them down two or three or four at a time, with the occasional pipe bomb to distract them en masse.

When the hordes clear and the music starts for the tank, everyone splits up and goes a different direction, N S E W, and then converges on the tank when he chooses a target. After you drop the tank, it's QUICKLY back into the hallway.

 

[dlock13]

My friends and I sat inside that little room inside the radio room. We closed the door and had the two shooting diagonally and meleeing whilst my friend and I had a hunting rifle and autoshotty blasting away at the infected. We'd rush out when a tank came, lit him on fire, and then tried to collect Molotovs and pipebombs for when we were in the room.

 

[minmaster]

yeah the stairs is a nice little place, but if there are no gas canisters or molotovs, tanks are really tough on expert. but other than the tanks, that spot is the best spot i've seen. just set the area in front of you on fire if you get gas canisters and just worry about tanks. that said, i still haven't beat it.

 

[videogames101]

There are 2 small rooms underneath the building with the satellite dish on top of it, you can all sit in one and aim for the door, no smokers/hunters will survive.

(You have to hit the doors with melee to break them down and get in)

 

[43st]

Well we're blowing through the finale's on first try now.. I guess it was the learning curve and having enough time to figure out squad movement and such. Thanks for comments, great game.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: videogames101
There are 2 small rooms underneath the building with the satellite dish on top of it, you can all sit in one and aim for the door, no smokers/hunters will survive.

(You have to hit the doors with melee to break them down and get in)

yup, this spot is best because you can get all 4 (two in each room) and not have to worry about anything getting in from behind like on the stairs (should someone get incapped or die). It also works should you ever lose a player to the first tank, as the small room in the radio building is a bit too cramped for more than 2 players.

That takes care of No Mercy

Death Toll you hide in the bathroom and have two people up on the sink and toilet and two people crouched in front. Normally the super cramped scenario is horrible for friendly fire, however because the two in the back are elevated, the chances of such incidences plummet.

Dead Air there is a two door closet for people to respawn in should they be lame enough to die before the finale starts. Its at the base of the airport building and all 4 people can line up against its back wall, and because there are no obstructions surrounding it for a couple hundred feet, you can even defend that spot with just pistols (provided everyone has double and just blasts away, as you can hit the hoards from far out and take out many before they get close), even on expert.

Blood Harvest has a plethora of rooms and closets you can hole up in and defend.

Basically the hoards are not the problem, its the Tanks that will wreak some havoc. Barring a super coordinated and skilled team, you really need to have some way to set the Tanks on fire. Try and have two players save at a molotov each for the final fight (as you will fight two tanks before the rescue vehicle will let you in) as there will sometimes be molotovs or red gas cans that will spawn somewhere on the battle ground, however not always. Should yo be lucky and be given several such options to set the tank on fire, you need to make sure you light it up and once that is done, he will eventually burn to death, leaving you and your team with the priority of dodging the tank first, and then shooting second. On expert, one hit from the tank will incapacitate you, and once you're down, he only needs to smash you twice to finish you off, so the priority really is to not get hit at all...

Another tip is that once the Tank commits to attacking one player, that player needs to focus solely on running, while the 3 other teammates focus on shooting the Tank (and keeping a look out for other special infected that have a great chance of ruining things). If the player being chased can evade well enough, the Tank will eventually get pissed off at the players shooting it and will divert its attention to one of them. Once the chased player is no longer being chased in favor of one of the other players, that freed player can then proceed to become one of the attackers...rinse and repeat as much as necessary.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: videogames101
There are 2 small rooms underneath the building with the satellite dish on top of it, you can all sit in one and aim for the door, no smokers/hunters will survive.

(You have to hit the doors with melee to break them down and get in)

yup, this spot is best because you can get all 4 (two in each room) and not have to worry about anything getting in from behind like on the stairs (should someone get incapped or die). It also works should you ever lose a player to the first tank, as the small room in the radio building is a bit too cramped for more than 2 players.

That takes care of No Mercy

Death Toll you hide in the bathroom and have two people up on the sink and toilet and two people crouched in front. Normally the super cramped scenario is horrible for friendly fire, however because the two in the back are elevated, the chances of such incidences plummet.

Dead Air there is a two door closet for people to respawn in should they be lame enough to die before the finale starts. Its at the base of the airport building and all 4 people can line up against its back wall, and because there are no obstructions surrounding it for a couple hundred feet, you can even defend that spot with just pistols (provided everyone has double and just blasts away, as you can hit the hoards from far out and take out many before they get close), even on expert.

Blood Harvest has a plethora of rooms and closets you can hole up in and defend.

Basically the hoards are not the problem, its the Tanks that will wreak some havoc. Barring a super coordinated and skilled team, you really need to have some way to set the Tanks on fire. Try and have two players save at a molotov each for the final fight (as you will fight two tanks before the rescue vehicle will let you in) as there will sometimes be molotovs or red gas cans that will spawn somewhere on the battle ground, however not always. Should yo be lucky and be given several such options to set the tank on fire, you need to make sure you light it up and once that is done, he will eventually burn to death, leaving you and your team with the priority of dodging the tank first, and then shooting second. On expert, one hit from the tank will incapacitate you, and once you're down, he only needs to smash you twice to finish you off, so the priority really is to not get hit at all...

Another tip is that once the Tank commits to attacking one player, that player needs to focus solely on running, while the 3 other teammates focus on shooting the Tank (and keeping a look out for other special infected that have a great chance of ruining things). If the player being chased can evade well enough, the Tank will eventually get pissed off at the players shooting it and will divert its attention to one of them. Once the chased player is no longer being chased in favor of one of the other players, that freed player can then proceed to become one of the attackers...rinse and repeat as much as necessary.

Well written, any thoughts on friendly fire incidents with friends? That seems to be our biggest problem. I am not just talking about in the finale's, i am talking about all of the maps.

 

[FuryofFive]

hah i was playing this map with me and one other guy, 2Ai's , we sat in the closet and waited for the hordes, we lasted a good chunk of time, until the AI's messed up and we got over whelemd

on advanced i believe

 

[43st]

We're not using the closet method, just standing on the highest ground and making sure our backs are safe. The AI works better this way as well. The big challenge is the final run to the rescue zone, you just need to think it out a bit and save a single pipe bomb for the event.

It's certainly difficult enough to make it a memorable event, when all 4 make it out. It can be really intense when you're in those last few minutes of a map.

Friendly fire is nasty. You should duck when you're in front, that helps a lot. You also need to be aware of running in front of teammates in narrow areas.

 

[FuryofFive]

Originally posted by: 43st
We're not using the closet method, just standing on the highest ground and making sure our backs are safe. The AI works better this way as well. The big challenge is the final run to the rescue zone, you just need to think it out a bit and save a single pipe bomb for the event.

It's certainly difficult enough to make it a memorable event, when all 4 make it out. It can be really intense when you're in those last few minutes of a map.

Friendly fire is nasty. You should duck when you're in front, that helps a lot. You also need to be aware of running in front of teammates in narrow areas.

high ground worked well 2