Need help with Fios setup

[Pardus]

Considering getting Fios, need some help with the setup process.

1. Can you use a wireless router or do you have to purchase the Fios router for $150 00. Is the Fios device a modem/router combo and can you charge the ssid/password on it. The Fios customer service reps have no clue .

2. For TV, they are telling me I have to pay $15/month to use the Fios set top box, is there a way to avoid this, perhaps by using a 3rd party box online.

3 The rep tells me the install process for the ONT is very complex and only a service tech can set it up. They want to charge $100.00 to roll a truck.

Please help, I'm considering Fios or Comcast. Thanks.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If you're only getting internet service, no TV, not sure about phone, then you don't need a FIOS router connected just to get internet service. You DO apparently need one, though, if you ever need to call for tech support.

The FIOS router (G1100 FQG), they call it a "gateway", but it's really just a router. There's no "modem" per se, but there's the ONT, that's basically tech-installed, it's not safe for the end-user to install it, even if they possessed the technical knowledge. (Live fibers can blind you.)

Yes, you can change the SSID and admin or wifi passwords on the FIOS routers.

As far as paying for FIOS STBs for TV, well, that may not be avoidable. I've heard that some people use TiVOs, with cable-cards. You still have to pay monthly for cablecards, but they're like half or less the price monthly than STBs.

If you order online, the installation fee (for the ONT) is suppose to be waived.

IMHO, FIOS is better than Comcast. Almost never goes down, whereas, Comcast likes to go down often sometimes, in the early AM, for "maintenance", and the upload speeds are WAY better.

Edit: I have both FIOS and Comcast.

 

[mnewsham]

The ONT 100% requires a professional installation, it requires dealing with live fiber cable which could blind you if you were to be dumb. Even if you were a certified fiber installation tech, they'd still 100% require THEIR tech to do the installation. This is unavoidable.

I'll start off by saying you CAN use any router you want, HOWEVER, for TV service you need to have MoCA internet on your coaxial, the G1100 router from Verizon has a MoCA bridge built into it. So, if you want to use another router, you need to also buy and use a standalone MoCA bridge. This will generally be more expensive than the G1100 standalone. BUT if you want full control of your router, you do have the option.
If you aren't using FiOS TV service, you can feel free to use literally any router you want to use, including custom Pfsense, enterprise grade Cisco, or normal consumer grade routers. It literally doesn't matter.

And no, there are no 3rd party boxes supported, you CAN get a cable card if you are fine dealing with that, but you're still paying ~$5/month to rent that, but it's cheaper than the full HD box price, so it's up to you if that's worth it or not for you.


All of that being said, the G1100 router is actually a decent piece of tech, solid performance, decent wired WAN-LAN and LAN-WAN throughput. You can change the SSID and password.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, the G1100 has really decent WAN-to-LAN, and plenty of options. (Though I hear some of them have been hidden, like SIP ALG, and IGMP settings.)

Anyways, one thing that some people do, including myself, is to have a G1100 as the primary ISP-facing router, and then to use a secondary router, that becomes your LAN router and used for wifi. (G1100 wifi is somewhat mediocre).

I use an AC68R (same as U) as my secondary and wifi.

One advantage of that, is limiting the visibility that Verizon has into your LAN. (With the LAN directly connected to your FIOS G1100, they have nearly full visibility into your LAN.)

You can set your secondary router into the DMZ, to avoid double-NAT issues.

 

[mnewsham]

Yeah, the G1100 has really decent WAN-to-LAN, and plenty of options. (Though I hear some of them have been hidden, like SIP ALG, and IGMP settings.)

Anyways, one thing that some people do, including myself, is to have a G1100 as the primary ISP-facing router, and then to use a secondary router, that becomes your LAN router and used for wifi. (G1100 wifi is somewhat mediocre).

I use an AC68R (same as U) as my secondary and wifi.

One advantage of that, is limiting the visibility that Verizon has into your LAN. (With the LAN directly connected to your FIOS G1100, they have nearly full visibility into your LAN.)

You can set your secondary router into the DMZ, to avoid double-NAT issues.

For me personally anyway, i'd leave the G1100 off the network if I am using another router anyway. I'd keep the G1100 around for trouble shooting though since the techs require you to have one for them to troubleshoot anything for you.

I don't really see an advantage to leaving the G1100 on the network if you're not using the MoCA bridge, or the Wifi. Just remove it from the equation all together if you've got a gigabit WAN capable router already.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't really see an advantage to leaving the G1100 on the network if you're not using the MoCA bridge, or the Wifi. Just remove it from the equation all together if you've got a gigabit WAN capable router already.

Well, it allows you to run Verizon's router speedtest, which can be helpful in self-diagnosing line or ONT problems, before calling tech support.

It can also serve as an "idiot light", to check your internet connection at a glance. (Red == down, problem, White = good, should be up).

 

[mnewsham]

Well, it allows you to run Verizon's router speedtest, which can be helpful in self-diagnosing line or ONT problems, before calling tech support.

Yeah, that's why i'd keep it, but not connected to the network. If I am having problems, plug it in and then diagnose.

Leaving it on the network just adds ANOTHER device that has to forward the packets. Sure it's imperceptible latency, but no reason to have it on there either, so meh.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If I am having problems, plug it in and then diagnose.

That's not really that great an option for me, I've got devices (mining PCs) that need a 24/7 internet connection. It's just a lot easier to leave the FIOS router "in the loop" (it doesn't cause any throughput issues, and I have yet to detect any latency issues either), in case I need to do an informal diagnosis of current line performance. For me, it would be a hassle to swap routers, and have to reboot all of the devices, because the IP subnet changed.

 

[Pardus]

Thanks for the great replies, some of this stuff is too complicated for me. Going to get Fios internet and Comcast TV. The latter will give me a non-hd box for free. With Verizon I'm going to use my Linksys AC router and connect it directly to the ONT port.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, that's certainly an option, but it may not be optimal financially-speaking, as bundling internet and TV, sometimes gives you more negotiating power, or they are willing to give you better deals. Suit yourself.

I've also heard that there are differences in terms of picture quality, between FIOS and Comcast, but I almost never watch TV, so I can't really comment as to that issue.

Edit: From a technical perspective, your choice should work fine.

 

[mnewsham]

Going to get Fios internet and Comcast TV

I can only imagine that will be more expensive, but hey, whatever works for you man.

The upside is Comcast's set top box is better than the FiOS box.

 

[Pardus]

I don't care about broadcast tv either, but my girlfriend wants it, trying to make her happy. I have enough info to check out both providers and make an informed decision. Might even look into a digital antenna.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Or FIOS + one or more internet TV streaming services? Is SlingTV still a thing? Netflix and Hulu for series shows?

 

[Pardus]

Here is the Fios cost breakdown:
Gigabyte Triple Play: $80.00
Fios Quantum Gateway Router G11: $15
Fios Cable HD Box: $12
Taxes: $11.00
Installation: $0.00
Monthly Total: $118

100/100 Internet Only:
Service: $40.00
Gateway Router: $15.00
Installation: $100.00
Monthly Total: $55.00

Might make sense to get the triple play installed, cancel TV and return the Fios router.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I mean, do you really need gigabit? And for the router, when I cancelled my old FIOS plan back in like Jan. or Feb., when the contract ran out, and then signed up a month later for new customer promos, I went with the $40/mo for 100/100 internet. It was a great deal, I thought. I simply chose, during the online sign-up, that I already had a FIOS router, and didn't need one.

I got sucked in by the allure of Gigabit, again, and wanted to use it to test a whole bunch of routers that I had just purchased, to test their WAN-to-LAN speeds. I never got around to testing out more than one of the routers, but I ended up with a $105/mo internet bill. (Since I went from 100/100 to Gigabit, and not another new customer promo.) Before I cancelled in Jan., I was paying like $135/mo for Gigabit and a double-play of TV that I didn't even use.

I was getting along just fine with 100/100, though, and $40/mo is IMHO basically first-world very affordable for internet.

Some regions are offering a new customer promo of $59.99/mo for 300/300 internet, might look into that too, if you don't need gigabit.

If you were looking at TV too, anyways, though, that intro rate on a 2-year gigabit triple-play is really hard to beat. After two years though, price is gonna go up...

 

[Pardus]

Definitely do not need 940/880 HSD speed, 100/100 will work just fine, however, the sales reps at Fios, will not bundle it as a double play package, only with the Gigabyte offer and promo. It's all a matter of who you speak to at Fios. I'll try to do it online later. We have RCN and the internet speed is 50/2, horriblely slow.

What's the make/model of your Fios router, maybe I can find a used one.

 

[VirtualLarry]

That's baloney (Edit: I mean from Verizon CSRs here, not you), FIOS will bundle any of their plans. They may not be offering specific advertised promos with that, however.

I just use the G1100, you can get them on ebay for $60 or so. Make sure that they are the "Verizon" firmware, and NOT "Verizon / Frontier". I've been told that once someone flashes Frontier firmware to them, they can never be used with just regular Verizon service again.

My secondary router, is an Asus AC68R, which is the same hardware as the AC68U, and the AC1900. from Asus. (They also make an AC1900P.)

There is a TM-AC1900, or otherwise "T-Mobile CellSpot", router. Avoid those, they have different firmware, and worse, a different CFE (bootloader), which affects their ability to take 3rd-party firmware, like Tomato.

The cheapest that I've ever seen those AC68U/R/1900/1900P, non-TM model routers, refurbished, is $80.

You could also investigate using an AC66U, or AC1750. Those are only single-core CPUs in those routers, though, but they are also excellent. Those I've seen for as low as $50 refurb, but currently they're going for ~$60 from Newegg on ebay, refurb.

Note that the G1100 from Verizon, NEW, is around $150, and the Asus AC1900 NEW, is around $170.

I've had mostly really decent luck thus far with refurb networking gear (sometimes the 2.4Ghz wifi on my AC68R drops for a few seconds, several times a day), more or less. Saved a bundle, though.

 

[mnewsham]

I've seen the triple play gigabit pricing down pretty low, but only if you're fine with a minimal TV package, once you add the more expensive TV packages, the price goes up pretty high.

For the cheapest possible gigabit option you have need to get a Gigabit triple play with Custom TV (infotainment and drama package avoids certain taxes), then make sure to add a free digital adapter, not an HD set top box.
With a 2 year contract it's $80/month for 2 years, and $90/month for the 3rd year.
Without a contract, it's $80/month for 1 year, and $95/month for the 2nd year onwards. But since you aren't tied into the contract, you have more freedom to leave for another ISP or whatever else.

However, if you want a better TV package, the price goes up minimum of $15/month for 80 HD channels (255+ total channels), $30/month more for 135 HD channels (365+ total), and $45/month more for 160 HD channels (425+ total)

Then add on HD set top boxes at $12 each.


Generally FiOS avoids double play deals because they want to boost their phone subscribers. It's also why their standalone gigabit pricing is so expensive, they want to push people to TV and phone plans.

For me it was $135/month for just gigabit internet, but add in TV and phone service and it brought me down to $95/month. I don't even watch TV or have a phone plugged in. It just made the internet much cheaper.

 

[Pardus]

VirtualLarry, I went with the gigabyte triple play, will try to use my own router, and it's a TP‑Link Archer C9 and hopefully, it will work. What I mean to ask, is can I buy the tv set top box somewhere.to avoid the $12 rental fee, sorry iI i misspoke/wasn't clear before. I got a supervisor on the phone who offered me free DVR service for 2-years, free installation, $100 gift card, $200 in Google home products, went with the basic tv package, really don't give a crap about the TV. Came out to $108/month including taxes and fees, it's a little higher than I want to spend, but if can buy my own set-top box, that would be amazing. The Verizon CSR's mean well, but no 2 people give you the same information, it can drive you nuts.

 

[mnewsham]

There is no legal way to purchase the set top box, they only rent them, and they MUST be returned after a customer ends their service, if it isn't returned, they're charged and the unit is blacklisted from the network as far as I am aware.

You CAN purchase a TiVo, but that would be minimum $200 up-front, and then TiVo costs $15/month or $150/year ($12.50/month). AND you'd still have to rent a cable card at $5/month.

The tldr is, you have to rent the set top box unless you want to pay even more for something else, though TiVo is generally considered a better interface than the FiOS stuff.

 

[Pardus]

This is what I got:

Services Ordered: Monthly Amount
Triple Play $79.99
–Fios Digital Voice Unlimited
–Custom TV Action & Entertainment
–Fios Gigabit Connection
–$10 Special 36 Mo. Discount thru Oct 7, 2021
–$10 Fios Custom TV 36 Mo. Discount thru Oct 7, 2021
–$10 Special 36 Mo. Discount thru Oct 7, 2021
–$10 Auto Pay and Paper Free Discount Included
–$10 Special 24 Mo. Discount thru Oct 7, 2020
–$55 Special Bundle Discount Included
Multi-Room DVR Enhanced Service - $20 per month no charge thru Oct 7, 2020 Fee Waived
Rent: 1 Set-Top Box $12.00
Installation: $99.99 Fee Waived
Estimated Monthly Subtotal $91.99
Taxes, Fees and Other Verizon Charges (see detail) $11.22
Fios TV Broadcast Fee $4.49

Estimated Monthly Total^ $107.70

 

[VirtualLarry]

That's pretty decent. I'm paying $105 just for a gigabit internet FIOS line, no taxes and fees.