Need help with an HD video editing workstation!

[HD-User1080]

Hello,

I just read the forum advice so here is everything you should need to know to answer my question. I am currently trying to build a computer and am getting in over my head.

PRIMARY USE
1. It will be for editing HD video from a Canon XL-H1a. I will primarily be using Adobe CS5 Production Premium and will be rendering a lot of layered shots with Adobe After Effects. I want something that will be fast.

BUDGET
2. I am hoping to spend between $1500 and $1800.


COUNTRY
3. I am located in the US and plan to buy parts from Newegg.com


BRAND PREFERENCE
4. I want to build an intel computer and am currently looking at the intel i7-950. I also plan to buy an nVidia graphics card because that’s what adobe recommends. I am currently looking at the Gigabyte or EVGA GeForce GTX 470.

CURRENT PARTS
5. I have no current parts and plan to buy everything new


RELATED THREADS
6. I have searched many related threads on specific parts and have come up with a list of what I hope to get, but with my limited knowledge I am have trouble putting the final pieces together.


OVERCLOCKING
7. I don’t plan to do any overclocking unless it is something that is straightforward and easy to figure out. Overall, I’d rather buy quality parts and not need to. However, it would be nice to know that I could overclock in the future if I changed my mind.


RESOLUTION
8. I plan to work with 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 video footage and will use monitors with 1920x1080 resolution.


WHEN
9. I would build this computer today if I knew what to get.


MY CURRENT LIST:

i7-950 CPU (Considering Sandy Bridge, but from what I read i7-950 sounds better for my use)
ASUS P6X58D or ASUS P6X58D-E (Open to other suggestions)
GIGABYTE Super Overclock Series GTX 470 (Fermi) or EVGA equivalent
G.Skill 12GB DDR3-1600 or DDR3-2000 (3x4)
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply
Boot Drive:
OCZ Vertex 2 OCZSSD2-2VTXE60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Storage Drive:
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6402AAEX 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
MISC:
(2x) ASUS 24” monitors
DVD burner or Blu-ray burner
Corsair H50 cooler


So, my question is, will this work for me? My main concerns are the motherboard and RAM. Also I don't know for sure but it sounds like the DDR3-2000 RAM requires overclocking.

Thank you for your help!
HD-User1080

 

[fffblackmage]

i7-950 CPU (Considering Sandy Bridge, but from what I read i7-950 sounds better for my use)

Anandtech bench - i5-2500K vs. i7-950
Seems like the i5-2500K is faster in every benchmark except SysMark 2007-Video Creation and the 2nd pass of the x264 encode test. Not sure how similar those tests are to video editing though. I'm not quite sure what to recommend, but I lean towards the i5-2500K just because it's faster overall.

G.Skill 12GB DDR3-1600 or DDR3-2000 (3x4)

Focus on getting lots of RAM for the money and stick with cheaper DDR3-1333. Faster RAM isn't going to help you as much as you would like to think.

Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

I have both the 300 and 900. They're both very similar, but the prices aren't.

CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply

Overkill. Seasonic S12II 620 - $80, should be more than enough.

Western Digital Caviar Black WD6402AAEX 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

You're better off with the Samsung F3 1TB. Same price, greater capacity, and faster.

 

[mnewsham]

^

Agreed, pick up an i5-2500k, to OC just change your multiplier, a multiplier of 40 for example gives you a 4ghz OC
I would get 4x4gb g skill 1333mhz cl9 ram (1.5v)
Wait for gtx 560 release

Just my .02

 

[Davidh373]

Seems like the i5-2500K is faster in every benchmark except SysMark 2007-Video Creation and the 2nd pass of the x264 encode test. Not sure how similar those tests are to video editing though.

The heavy utilization stuff is in the rendering and encoding. My production company uses all full HD H.264 renders. I would personally go with sandy bridge for the added stability and compatibility, along with the fact I would save $100-$150. If you are into layering in special effects (especially if you are going to dabble in rendering/ compositing 3D) you are going to want the fastest processor possible for the task.

i7 950 vs. i7 2600k
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/100?vs=287

While Sysmark is decent, it is not a real world test of the hardware, you will notice the FPS on the H.264 video encode is significantly higher on the i7 2600k, while the i7 950 surpasses it in the "fake" test.

i7 950 vs. i5 2500k
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/100?vs=288

You'll notice, even without Hyperthreading, the i5 2500k still smokes the i7 950.

i5 2500k vs. i7 2600k.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/287?vs=288

This is where you need to focus on how much that $100 extra is going to benefit you. you'll notice these two are very close in the first pass, but you'll notice the second is quite a bit slower on the i5 2500k than on the i7 2600k, so that choice is up to you.

The choice for Sandy Bridge vs. Nehalem would be very clear cut for me though. You still save ~$50 off the motherboard with Sandy Bridge and it performs significantly better.

GIGABYTE Super Overclock Series GTX 470 (Fermi) or EVGA equivalent

As for this I both agree, and disagree. If you are just getting this for the Mercury Playback, a 460 is more than enough, if you are going to be doing some 3D modeling/ Rendering, go for a 570, or go big with a $800 Quadro 4000 since you seem to have the budget for either. Heck, you could even get a 580 with that budget!

Geforce GTX 570
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-552-_-Product

Geforce GTX 580
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-068-_-Product

Quadro 4000
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-324-_-Product

You're better off with the Samsung F3 1TB. Same price, greater capacity, and faster.

Agreed

Anandtech bench - i5-2500K vs. i7-950
Seems like the i5-2500K is faster in every benchmark except SysMark 2007-Video Creation and the 2nd pass of the x264 encode test. Not sure how similar those tests are to video editing though. I'm not quite sure what to recommend, but I lean towards the i5-2500K just because it's faster overall.

but the i7 2600k is certainly faster in everything he needs. So that extra $100 would be better invested in Sandy Bridge anyway.

Overkill. Seasonic S12II 620 - $80, should be more than enough.

Agreed.

 

[HD-User1080]

fffblackmage, thank you for your input! I think I will take your advice and get the 300 case and the Samsung F3 1TB. For some reason I thought I needed a higher watt power supply. I think someone recommended that one based on the graphics card consuption... but I'm not sure.

As for this I both agree, and disagree. If you are just getting this for the Mercury Playback, a 460 is more than enough, if you are going to be doing some 3D modeling/ Rendering, go for a 570, or go big with a $800 Quadro 4000 since you seem to have the budget for either. Heck, you could even get a 580 with that budget!

I mostly picked the card based on the Mercury Playback engine; however, I am interested in possibly pursuing some 3D modeling/rendering work in the future.

I'm now looking into:
i7-2600k
Asrock Extreme4 P67 (Any others to consider?)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 (Possibly 2 of these)
Antec 300 case
Gtx460 or Gtx570

It seems a lot of people are recommending Sandy Bridge over i7-950, as well as the gtx460 and gtx570.

I do have one concern about the i7-2600k though. With the P67 board and a discrete GPU I've heard that I will not be able to take advantage of Quick Sync. Is this a big deal because I would rather not wait until the Z68 chipset motherboards came out.

I would get 4x4gb g skill 1333mhz cl9 ram (1.5v)

I noticed that there were three options for RAM listed on the gskill website that were made to go with Sandy Bridge. How does the one you mentioned compare to the G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600?


Thank you for all your help everyone!
HD-User1080

 

[Davidh373]

I'm now looking into:
i7-2600k
Asrock Extreme4 P67 (Any others to consider?)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 (Possibly 2 of these)
Antec 300 case
Gtx460 or Gtx570

This looks good, except ASRock isn't really known for reliability (given you'll probably want your workstation to turn on all the time when you want to... you know... work )

ASRock isn't bad. I'm not telling you it's a piece of crap or anything, but it isn't like a Gigabyte, ASUS, or MSI board would be.

Look into the P67 UD3 from Gigabyte. I think Newegg even has a combo for it and the i7 2600K.

I noticed that there were three options for RAM listed on the gskill website that were made to go with Sandy Bridge. How does the one you mentioned compare to the G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600?

"Made to go with"? Or maybe just marketed with... RAM is RAM, don't spend any extra money on "Made for Sandy Bridge" Memory.

The GSkill Ripjaw X is the standard 1333Mhz Value DIMMs with a beautiful (and quite unecessary IMO) heatspreader on top.

$80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-422-_-Product

Same as $92
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-426-_-Product

The only difference is the hunk of metal on top... RAM never Overheats lol.

 

[mnewsham]

fffblackmage, thank you for your input! I think I will take your advice and get the 300 case and the Samsung F3 1TB. For some reason I thought I needed a higher watt power supply. I think someone recommended that one based on the graphics card consuption... but I'm not sure.



I mostly picked the card based on the Mercury Playback engine; however, I am interested in possibly pursuing some 3D modeling/rendering work in the future.

I'm now looking into:
i7-2600k
Asrock Extreme4 P67 (Any others to consider?)
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 (Possibly 2 of these)
Antec 300 case
Gtx460 or Gtx570

It seems a lot of people are recommending Sandy Bridge over i7-950, as well as the gtx460 and gtx570.

I do have one concern about the i7-2600k though. With the P67 board and a discrete GPU I've heard that I will not be able to take advantage of Quick Sync. Is this a big deal because I would rather not wait until the Z68 chipset motherboards came out.



I noticed that there were three options for RAM listed on the gskill website that were made to go with Sandy Bridge. How does the one you mentioned compare to the G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600?


Thank you for all your help everyone!
HD-User1080

If you haven't already i would recommend you read this article on quicksync

Also i would recommend waiting for the GTX 560 as that might bring 460 prices down, it might also bring 570 prices down. OR the 560 could be exactly what you are looking for. It is expected to be released on the 25th of January.

As for the RAM G-skill's website has the new Ripjaw X series designed for Sandy Bridge, however it is the same RAM as the older ripjaws, the only reason it is "designed for sandy bridge" or whatever is that it is only 1.5V and not 1.65V (which is too high for sandy bridge) As long as you look for 1.5V RAM you should be fine.

You can pick up these
$200

Or if you don't care if it is in a set you can get 4 of these
$164

Hope that helps.

 

[Davidh373]

I do have one concern about the i7-2600k though. With the P67 board and a discrete GPU I've heard that I will not be able to take advantage of Quick Sync. Is this a big deal because I would rather not wait until the Z68 chipset motherboards came out.

This won't matter because it cant be used with anything but the onboard video.

 

[mnewsham]

This looks good, except ASRock isn't really known for reliability (given you'll probably want your workstation to turn on all the time when you want to... you know... work )

ASRock isn't bad. I'm not telling you it's a piece of crap or anything, but it isn't like a Gigabyte, ASUS, or MSI board would be.

Look into the P67 UD3 from Gigabyte. I think Newegg even has a combo for it and the i7 2600K.



"Made to go with"? Or maybe just marketed with... RAM is RAM, don't spend any extra money on "Made for Sandy Bridge" Memory.

The GSkill Ripjaw X is the standard 1333Mhz Value DIMMs with a beautiful (and quite unecessary IMO) heatspreader on top.

$80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-422-_-Product

Same as $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-426-_-Product

The only difference is the hunk of metal on top... RAM never Overheats lol.

Ninja'd again :ninja:

 

[Davidh373]

Ninja'd again

What exactly does that mean? Is it because I edited the $90 to be $92 factoring in the shipping w/o saying so...? Or is it that I said the same thing only faster?

 

[mnewsham]

What exactly does that mean? Is it because I edited the $90 to be $92 factoring in the shipping w/o saying so...? Or is it that I said the same thing only faster?

I started typing my reply before you finished yours and you said about what i was saying, it can also be editing where you fix something before someone comments on a mistake you made

There are a few type of ninja out there :ninja:

 

[Davidh373]

There are a few type of ninja out there

lol, yes, I am occasionally both types of ninja, but I frequently make 1-2 letter typos that completely appear to say what I don't mean... so I figure it's best to fix them before I confuse the hell outta the OP lol.

 

[mfenn]

OP, listen to fffblackmage and David. I agree with their advice.

I wouldn't worry about QuickSync because it doesn't seem to be geared for what you're trying to do (high quality, high resolution encoding). It's made for cranking out Youtube-quality videos really fast!

 

[HD-User1080]

You're better off with the Samsung F3 1TB. Same price, greater capacity, and faster.

So, I understand the greater capacity and same price part; however, I was wondering what makes this hard drive faster. I noticed it is only SATA 3.0Gb/s when the other card I selected was SATA 6.0Gb/s. Does this make a difference?

Thank you,
HD-User1080

 

[betasub]

^ Current rotating HDD technology doesn't hit SATA 3.0Gb/s limits, so having a 6.0GB/s interface is merely a check box item for marketing.

 

[Davidh373]

^ Current rotating HDD technology doesn't hit SATA 3.0Gb/s limits, so having a 6.0GB/s interface is merely a check box item for marketing.

yup

things that make performance better (in the correct combination) are things like Cache, platter density, platter count, file allocations size, sector size, and I'm sure there's more. What really counts is price in the high performance drive market. The Caviar Black 1TB may be "faster" than the Samsung F3 1TB, but only by an unnoticeable margin. That unnoticeable margin might save you 3-4 seconds over your entire ownership of the drive, but then again, so would not blinking. The difference is $20, which isn't worth it imo.

 

[fffblackmage]

I just noticed something... does it seem like HDDs these days don't list transfer rates? Like say "Up to 120 MB/s (sustained)" or whatever? I guess it would be too obvious that SATA 6gbps doesn't make a HDD perform any faster.

According to a WD datasheet, the WD6402AAEX has a sustained transfer rate of around 126MBps. That's nowhere near as fast as the SATA 6gbps transfer rate (roughly 600 MBps). Not even close to the SATA 3gbps limit (about 300MBps).

 

[HD-User1080]

Current rotating HDD technology doesn't hit SATA 3.0Gb/s limits, so having a 6.0GB/s interface is merely a check box item for marketing.

Ok, good to know! I seem to be falling for every marketing trick in the book...ha.

 

[HD-User1080]

So after looking into everyone's suggestions I was about to go ahead and build my i7-2600k system, but then I talked to a technician at videoguys.com. He said "I think it is too soon to jump to sandy bridge. while initial reports are good. these are not from content creation folks." His suggestion instead was the following:

ASUS P6X58D-E
Intel Quad Core i7 950 (or Intel Hex Core i7 970)
CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Hitachi 1TB 7200RPM 0A38016 (or Western VelociRaptor WD6000HLHX 600GB - 10,000 RPM)
Antec Nine Hundred Two Black ATX Case
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W
Microsoft Win 7 Professional OEM
BDR-206 Blu-ray Burner
GTX470 (or Quadro4000)

He said, "I feel this build will hold solid for at least a year or two. But Sandy bridge could change that, especially if the next revs of NLEs tap into the Intel encode/decode capabilities."

Does anybody agree or disagree with this? I was just about set on an i7-2600k, but I know these guys are knowlegable on building systems for adobe cs5 and most reviews out are for gamers.

Thank you,
HD-User1080

 

[Davidh373]

So after looking into everyone's suggestions I was about to go ahead and build my i7-2600k system, but then I talked to a technician at videoguys.com. He said "I think it is too soon to jump to sandy bridge. while initial reports are good. these are not from content creation folks." His suggestion instead was the following:

... -_-;

Benchmarks are benchmarks... They show that the SB CPU is faster. There are a lot of mistakes this guy made.

CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

This RAM is not 1.5V, which will damage the Nehalem memory controller over time.

Hitachi 1TB 7200RPM 0A38016 (or Western VelociRaptor WD6000HLHX 600GB - 10,000 RPM)

Both of these are a bad choice. Hitachi makes some of the slowest HDDs on the market today, and you're saving only $5-$10 off your Samsung. Plus, although this model is pretty solid, Hitachi is not known for reliability.

The Velociraptor is basically paying more for a loud drive. The performance of SSDs are proven.

CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W

This is overkill by about 250W.

GTX470 (or Quadro4000)

Why the 470/ Quadro for software that barley uses graphics?

Does anybody agree or disagree with this? I was just about set on an i7-2600k, but I know these guys are knowlegable on building systems for adobe cs5 and most reviews out are for gamers.

I whole heatedly disagree with this build. You are paying $100 more for something close to 3 years older. This guy may be from the "content creation folks" but so am I really... sure, I'm just starting out as of 2 years ago, but I also know a TON about hardware. I feel comfortable that I can put my reputation on the line to tell you (or him directly if you like) that he is going off 2 year old information for that build.

 

[HD-User1080]

Benchmarks are benchmarks... They show that the SB CPU is faster. There are a lot of mistakes this guy made.

Thank you. His reasoning didn't make a lot of sense to me so I was hoping someone else could confirm what I was thinking.

Why the 470/ Quadro for software that barley uses graphics?

One question I do have is about the graphics card though. I was reading this article: http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5.htm, which had a lot of useful information about how to unlock a graphics card so it can be used by adobe's mercury playback engine. What caught my eye was the following:

"If you don't have a video card with the NVidia chip set, then Premiere CS5 will run in what is called the "Software Only" mode and will not take advantage of the video card's GPU.

Adobe Premiere CS5 has two modes for the Mercury Playback Engine, they are:
A) Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration
B) Mercury Playback Engine Software Only "

In other words, when you use a card recommended by adobe (or any unlocked nVidia card) the software will take advantage of the GPU.

Do you have any thoughts on this? It sound like the software will take advantage of a better graphics card, as long as it is recommended or "unlocked".

Thank you,
HD-User1080

 

[Davidh373]

which had a lot of useful information about how to unlock a graphics card so it can be used by adobe's mercury playback engine. What caught my eye was the following:

here's the thing, Adobe realized how dumb they were being, so the most updated 4xx/5xx series driver unlocks the capabilities of Mercury Playback. so as long as you have v260.99 you should be golden .

 

[HD-User1080]

here's the thing, Adobe realized how dumb they were being, so the most updated 4xx/5xx series driver unlocks the capabilities of Mercury Playback. so as long as you have v260.99 you should be golden .

Ok cool! So are you still saying that anything over a 460 is pointless, or will adobe take advantage of better cards (gtx570 or quadro 4000)?

 

[HD-User1080]

Another question... A lot of the LGA 1366 boards that I was previously looking at supported Triple channel memory. However, all of the LGA 1155 boards seem to support Dual channel. So my questions are:

1) Why the change?
2) Will gSkill quad channel ram work on the 1155 boards
3) How do some 1155 boards support 32 Gb of ram with 4 slots? Are 8Gb sticks coming out in the future?

Sorry for so many questions. I really appreciate the help!

 

[Davidh373]

Ok cool! So are you still saying that anything over a 460 is pointless, or will adobe take advantage of better cards (gtx570 or quadro 4000)?

The only reason to get a Quadro, or 570 would be if you wanted to be serious dabbling in 3D. Otherwise the 460 (or if you wanna wait for the 560 coming out later this month) would still be ok for the Mercury Playback and some 3D.