Need help with a new build

[AshmerAmadeus]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/vXPNZL

This is the build as it stands. Its over-budget by a bit. To answer the helpful questions:

1: I'm attending college online. This requires the use of VMWare. I also game some, primarily Path of Exile and Borderlands 2, although with the new hardware I should be able to play more demanding games

2: I have a $1000, but I need to allocate $200 to a new phone, that leaves me $800 for the computer. This is a firm budget, although I have a few parts already. Promos will help, rebates will not as I want to order everything at once. I'll take rebates if offered, but I need to be at or under $800 before the rebates are counted.

3: I live in Florida, all parts will be bought from the US

4: N/A

5: My brand loyalty is my wallet. I'm under the impression that at my budget that an Intel i5 would be best. I'm certainly open for ideas though.

6: I already have a monitor (hpw2338h) It caps at 1920x1080, and I expect to use it for several more years. I have a 500gb hdd I plan on taking from my current computer to use in the new one. I also have a keyboard. I will be getting my OS from college, so that doesn't have to be counted against the budget. I will need everything else, including a mouse as the one I currently have will be handed to my kids with the rest of the current computer.

7: I don't plan on overclocking as any computer I put together is going to blow this one out of the water. Having said that, my pcpartpicker list does contain an aftermarket cpu cooler as I'm not sure about how good the boxed coolers work.

8: My monitor is 1920x1080

9: I would like to order the parts on Friday 2/20

10: No outside software. I will get the OS on my own, and it doesn't count against the budget.

A few thoughts of my own.

1: My list is kinda sorta built from Tomshardware monthly part lists and partly from the midrange build here. I need to cut about $125 off my list.

2: Simple cuts I can think of on my own are as follows
Hyper 212 Evo
Antec P100 Case
Steel Series Rival Mouse

Less sure of:
Corsair CM 650W
GTX 960
ASRock H97 motherboard

3: I "only" game at 1080p, I'm hoping that means I can go a little less on the video card. Every computer I've built has gotten a newer video card after a couple years, I've never replaced the processor. If the GTX 960 can max most stuff at 1080p, I don't see much reason to go higher that that for now.

4: I honestly have no idea on the motherboard. I know the socket type is compatible, but other than that, I don't know the difference between this motherboard and any other. I have 2 hhds, and will be getting a ssd for this build, will I need extra sata cables if I get this motherboard?

5: With everything else I have, is the PSU more than I'll need? I don't want to skimp and end up short, but I don't want to overdo it either.

6: I could cut some expense on the case. I'm more concerned about function over form. My computer sits under the desk, so I don't need a lot of bells and whistles, I just need something with decent air flow that will fit all the parts.

7: If I can afford it, I would like to get a webcam. Nothing fancy, just something that will allow for video chat via skype.

8: Not hardware related exactly, but how do I go about partitioning the ssd? I generally setup my hdd with a smaller (50gb) partition to hold the OS and minor programs like VLC, and a larger partition to hold all other things. I kinda like that setup, but have never yet used a ssd. Can I partition a ssd the same way I have always done on my hdd?

 

[Ken g6]

I have 2 hhds, and will be getting a ssd for this build, will I need extra sata cables if I get this motherboard?

The one I picked appears to come with only two SATA cables. Can you take the SATA cables that are attached to the HDDs along with the drives?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: *ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($68.98 @ OutletPC)
Memory: *G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: *Crucial BX100 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 280 3GB Black Edition Double Dissipation Video Card ($199.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: *Silverstone PS08B (Black) MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($33.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: *Antec Neo Eco 620W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Mouse: SteelSeries Rival Wired Optical Mouse ($53.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $799.89
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-16 16:00 EST-0500

I couldn't fit a webcam, but maybe you can afford one after rebates? I'm also not sure about mice - you could probably find a cheaper one.

Edit: Oh, did the college give suggested requirements? I can imagine VMWare needing more RAM.

 

[mfenn]

8: Not hardware related exactly, but how do I go about partitioning the ssd? I generally setup my hdd with a smaller (50gb) partition to hold the OS and minor programs like VLC, and a larger partition to hold all other things. I kinda like that setup, but have never yet used a ssd. Can I partition a ssd the same way I have always done on my hdd?

You can do it, but I wouldn't recommend it because it adds complexity for not a lot of benefit. At any rate, your HDD fulfills the role of the larger storage partition in this setup. Anything that you want to have fast access to should go on the SSD.

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

@Ken g6, your list is $835. Closer to what I need. If I drop to a generic mouse, I think I'd be on budget. I can always go back later and get a more high quality mouse. I've been using generic style mice since my first computer, so a while longer isn't going to hurt. The video card you have listed has 3gb Ram vs the 2gb on the card I picked. Other than having more ram, is that a better card? I'm currently using VMWare on my computer, and it only has 4gb of DDR2. I never got a list of requirements, but I'm comfortable adding more ram down the road if its needed. 2x4gb should only fill half the slots, so I can easily go to 16gb total if I find the need. The webcam is minor, and as you suggest, it would be a good way to spend the rebates.

@mfenn: I've always done my hdd a particular way. SSD is totally new to me though. I seem to recall its a good idea to leave part of the drive unpartitioned, although I'm not sure that is correct, and even if it is, I don't know why. My current computer has a 500gb hdd that has a 50gb system partition, containing primarily the OS, and the minor programs like VLC. The rest is a large partition to hold stuff like Steam. I would do something similar with the SSD if it makes sense. I'd still have a little better than 600gb worth of hdd storage for things like movies and music, but the OS and Steam at the minimum would make sense to be on the SSD. Is it in my best interest to use the SSD as my system drive (including steam) and the mechanical drive for all my bulk storage needs, or would it still make sense to keep the OS on its own partition, and keep steam on the SSD, but separated?

 

[Ken g6]

@Ken g6, your list is $835

Still shows $799.89 for me. Did you turn off MIR's (Mail-In Rebates) in PCPartPicker?

Note that prices are likely to change by Friday.

The video card you have listed has 3gb Ram vs the 2gb on the card I picked. Other than having more ram, is that a better card?

In general I think it's a little better. We still don't have an AnandTech review of the GTX 960. But the 285 seems a little faster than the 960, the 280 is about the same as the 285, and this particular card is 20% factory-overclocked.

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

Still shows $799.89 for me. Did you turn off MIR's (Mail-In Rebates) in PCPartPicker?

Note that prices are likely to change by Friday.


In general I think it's a little better. We still don't have an AnandTech review of the GTX 960. But the 285 seems a little faster than the 960, the 280 is about the same as the 285, and this particular card is 20% factory-overclocked.

I don't think I turned of MIR. I'm expecting price changes, so a rough idea of what I'm after is good enough. I can't complain, no matter what I get, its going to be a whole lot better that what I'm using now. If the price goes up some, I can drop to a cheaper mouse, or just grab one at a local wal mart. I do have a CompUSA about 20 miles away, I can just use a junk mouse for a while and then check there for something better later.

 

[mfenn]

@mfenn: I've always done my hdd a particular way. SSD is totally new to me though. I seem to recall its a good idea to leave part of the drive unpartitioned, although I'm not sure that is correct, and even if it is, I don't know why. My current computer has a 500gb hdd that has a 50gb system partition, containing primarily the OS, and the minor programs like VLC. The rest is a large partition to hold stuff like Steam. I would do something similar with the SSD if it makes sense. I'd still have a little better than 600gb worth of hdd storage for things like movies and music, but the OS and Steam at the minimum would make sense to be on the SSD. Is it in my best interest to use the SSD as my system drive (including steam) and the mechanical drive for all my bulk storage needs, or would it still make sense to keep the OS on its own partition, and keep steam on the SSD, but separated?

The reason that having small filesystems is bad on an SSD is because the constrained space forces the filesystem to work harder to place files, leading to more small, unaligned writes. This reduces your performance as well as increases the total number of writes.

The higher number of writes might not (probably doesn't) matter in terms of wear, but it's still an archaic practice dating back to the days where you wanted to put the system partition on the faster section of the HDD. It doesn't really serve any purpose with an SSD.

You're welcome to make multiple small partitions if it makes you more comfortable, but doesn't serve a purpose.

 

[Charlie98]

Personally, I wouldn't fool with a partition on the SSD... just load all your programs on it, including Steam... you can always put the actual game files on one of the HDDs. You also need to size your SSD correctly... to leave about 20% unused.

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

@mfenn & Charlie98: I've always used partitions as data protection rather than a speed increase. I'll be getting enough of a speed boost going from hdd to ssd, any minor gains from partitioning wouldn't be noticed. 250gb should be plenty of space, as I plan to keep the OS and Steam as the only major programs. And I think my steam folder is only around 60gb. I could function fine with just 250gb if I had to, and I'll be taking at least 1x500gb hdd from this computer to put in the new one. No matter how I slice it, this new computer will blow my current machine out of the water.

 

[Charlie98]

If that's the case (OS+Steam+60GB game file) I would indeed just load it all on the SSD without any separate partitions... and use the HDD as backup image storage (using something like Acronis to make backup images on a regular basis.)

I have had my main OS SSD fail suddenly, so it does happen. I have my OS drive backed up 4 ways (2 internal drives, 2 external drives) so I was OK... but it's something you need to be aware of.

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

@Charlie: Like I said, the whole SSD thing is new to me. I don't mind loading everything onto it and just handling the backup part myself. I can't wait to see the speed gain.

 

[Charlie98]

@Charlie: Like I said, the whole SSD thing is new to me. I don't mind loading everything onto it and just handling the backup part myself. I can't wait to see the speed gain.

...be careful! Once you use a system with an SSD, you won't want to go back to an HDD... :awe:

 

[mfenn]

@mfenn & Charlie98: I've always used partitions as data protection rather than a speed increase. I'll be getting enough of a speed boost going from hdd to ssd, any minor gains from partitioning wouldn't be noticed. 250gb should be plenty of space, as I plan to keep the OS and Steam as the only major programs. And I think my steam folder is only around 60gb. I could function fine with just 250gb if I had to, and I'll be taking at least 1x500gb hdd from this computer to put in the new one. No matter how I slice it, this new computer will blow my current machine out of the water.

Just to be clear, partitioning only helped speed on HDDs, it does nothing for SSDs and is infact counter productive (makes things slower).

Can you elaborate on "partitions as data protection"? Do you encrypt the secondary partition and leave it unmounted most of the time or something like that?

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

Just to be clear, partitioning only helped speed on HDDs, it does nothing for SSDs and is infact counter productive (makes things slower).

Can you elaborate on "partitions as data protection"? Do you encrypt the secondary partition and leave it unmounted most of the time or something like that?

Everyone in my house uses my computer. This includes 3 children, 12, 9 and 3. My wife is about as tech savvy as the three year old. If one of them does something to ruin the computer I minimize my loss. It doesn't take long for me to reinstall the OS if needed, but it would be a pain to try and recover the entire contents of my hard drive. Does that make sense?

 

[mfenn]

Everyone in my house uses my computer. This includes 3 children, 12, 9 and 3. My wife is about as tech savvy as the three year old. If one of them does something to ruin the computer I minimize my loss. It doesn't take long for me to reinstall the OS if needed, but it would be a pain to try and recover the entire contents of my hard drive. Does that make sense?

I understand what you're saying, but partitioning doesn't really help you in that situation. The other partition is sitting right there accessible to anybody who wants to mess around with it, youngsters or more seriously malware. For example, having a separate partition would not help you against one of the recent class ransomware attacks.

The way to protect against the treats that you're worried about are proper image-based backups created by (for example) Macrium Reflect or Acronis TrueImage. If those backups are offline, there is no way that anything that happens to the computer, accidental or malware, can affect them. You just take 30 minutes to restore the latest image and you're up and running, with no reinstall or reconfiguration of anything.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The way to protect against the treats that you're worried about are proper image-based backups created by (for example) Macrium Reflect or Acronis TrueImage. If those backups are offline, there is no way that anything that happens to the computer, accidental or malware, can affect them. You just take 30 minutes to restore the latest image and you're up and running, with no reinstall or reconfiguration of anything.

Or get a WHS server, or a NAS with supporting backup software. Of course, that's an additional cost, but then again, so is an external HDD. You could get lucky, like I did, and get a NAS with a pre-installed HDD, for approximately not much more than just the external USB HDD version.

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

Back on the hardware front, I have the money in hand now, so I can order parts whenever. While I don't plan to overclock now, I'd assume it would be better to get a motherboard that supports it now, than to wait until later and have to buy a whole new one. I'm going with the idea that I can get a chipset that allows me to OC, and use the stock cooler for now, knowing I'm not going to overclock. Later on, if I feel the computer needs it, I can spend the $35 or so and get something like the Hyper 212 Evo, and then overclock the processor. This would require getting the correct motherboard and a 4690K as opposed to the 4690 Ken g6 has picked. Still doable on $800?

 

[Charlie98]

You will need a Z97 mobo... that will add another $30-40 to the motherboard cost, along with the additional cost of the K-chip.

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BgdZvK

I'm three bucks over, but I'm fairly sure I still have a few dollars saved in Amazon, so this should be about perfect dollar wise. This gives me the K variant processor and a Z97 motherboard. Video card is solid. Does this get the seal of approval?

 

[mfenn]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/BgdZvK

I'm three bucks over, but I'm fairly sure I still have a few dollars saved in Amazon, so this should be about perfect dollar wise. This gives me the K variant processor and a Z97 motherboard. Video card is solid. Does this get the seal of approval?

:thumbsup: That build looks solid to me.

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

My computer parts have arrived, and it has been assembled. I'm left with several thoughts. Every motherboard manufacturer needs to make the front panel stuff all attached like they do for the USB. Trying to get the power button and such is probably the most pain in the rear part of building the computer. The case was a pleasure to work with, and while it isn't as neat as everyone here, it is still the cleanest case I've ever had when done. The computer is much quieter than I thought it would be. That video card is seriously large. The SSD is amazing. I didn't time anything, either with this computer or the one it replaced, but it is noticeably faster. Path of Exile has a much faster load, and hitting the power button to getting to the windows log in is only like ten seconds. I didn't end up getting a mouse, so I'll grab one around town somewhere, and the kids will have a fully functional computer to use. There were a few minor mistakes. The NZXT Source 210 doesn't start with a cage to fit the SSD. My wife says I should have gotten a black case, not a white one, but I'm happy with white. The SSD fills up faster that I though, I'm already using almost 100gb. I'm a very happy camper, and now that I actually have a quality computer, I'll have to look into some more demanding games.

 

[mfenn]

Nice, I'm glad it worked out for you!

 

[VirtualLarry]

The NZXT Source 210 doesn't start with a cage to fit the SSD.

Check this thread out for an option for SSD mounting:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2423237

 

[AshmerAmadeus]

Check this thread out for an option for SSD mounting:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2423237

I think I'm going to get some double sticky velcro and just stick it to the bottom of the case.

Thanks to everyone who has offered help. This computer is the stuff, and should be for quite some time.