Need help with 50 inch plasma selection

[FallenHero]

I've been looking around at 50 inch plasma's lately and attempting to gather what information I can regarding them. I'm willing to spend 2000-3000 dollars for one but can't decide because I can't trust any review sites to give me a straight answer. I've read that the panasonic's are good, but they have 3-4 different 50 inch models. I can't find any information on different manufactures...at least not on the scale that I find panasonic info. Here is what I require:

1080p
50 inch
up to 3000 dollar limit...preferrably 2500 or under.
HDMI input.
Tuners
Built in speakers.


Not really technical, but I'm not a video guy so I don't know what exactly to look for. Any help would be appreciated.

It will be used mainly for xbox360/movies

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Are you sure you want to use the built-in speakers?

360 and Movies would be a LOT cooler with some good sound to go along with it.

Something like a ~$2500 Pioneer 5080 and a ~$500 HTIB from Onkyo would be a nice ~$3000 total system.

The Pioneer 5080 is only a 720p (768p) set, but they seem awesome from what I have read, and I think it would be a strong option for you vs. some of the 1080p options that would not have the same level of picture quality, despite better resolution.

 

[kalrith]

I agree with yoyoyo. There are quite a few reviews on that TV that can be seen at this thread at avsforum. It's one thing for a single reviewer to rave about a TV, but when almost all the reviewers say that it's the best flat-panel TV or even the absolute best TV they've ever seen, it's obvious that it's a good TV. Add to that the objective readings showing the best black levels and best contrast ratio of any non-CRT, and you've got yourself a winner.

At 10 feet away, you won't be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p. Even at 8 feet, the 5080 will probably look better than a Panny or Samsung 1080p TV.

I think sound makes as big of a difference for games and movies as the TV does. If you went to the movies, and they had one crappy speaker at the front of the theater, I doubt you would be pleased. For $500 you can get an incredible amount and quality of sound compared to a TV speaker. Heck, even my friend's $150 surround sound system from Wal-Mart sounds many, many times better than a TV speaker.

Something like this Onkyo system would be good.

 

[DBL]

If you must have 1080p, consider the Panasonic or the Samsung. If not, consider the Pioneer. Those are really the only choices.

 

[zinfamous]

Honestly, you don't need 1080p at 50" --the price difference simply isn't worth it, esp if you're going plasma. If you could get them at the same price, then there would be no reason to not go 1080p.

anyone have the link to that article that breaks down the 1080p myth?

for those 70-200" screens, 1080p would be worthwhile.

EIDT: also, if you have a little patience, wait until BF. you will find some kickass deals.

 

[Thetech]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Are you sure you want to use the built-in speakers?

360 and Movies would be a LOT cooler with some good sound to go along with it.

Something like a ~$2500 Pioneer 5080 and a ~$500 HTIB from Onkyo would be a nice ~$3000 total system.

The Pioneer 5080 is only a 720p (768p) set, but they seem awesome from what I have read, and I think it would be a strong option for you vs. some of the 1080p options that would not have the same level of picture quality, despite better resolution.

I notice that you usually suggest Onkyo HTIB sets, are they a very good choice if you can't dedicate 2000 dollars to the audio part of a home theater, what type of compromise is being made by taking this choice?

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Thetech

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Are you sure you want to use the built-in speakers?

360 and Movies would be a LOT cooler with some good sound to go along with it.

Something like a ~$2500 Pioneer 5080 and a ~$500 HTIB from Onkyo would be a nice ~$3000 total system.

The Pioneer 5080 is only a 720p (768p) set, but they seem awesome from what I have read, and I think it would be a strong option for you vs. some of the 1080p options that would not have the same level of picture quality, despite better resolution.

I notice that you usually suggest Onkyo HTIB sets, are they a very good choice if you can't dedicate 2000 dollars to the audio part of a home theater, what type of compromise is being made by taking this choice?

It's mentioned somewhat in the General Home Theater Audio Thread. I went the route of the Polk R series and feel that I did better than just spending the money on a HTIB. For comparison, I spent roughly $600-650 on the receiver, 5 speakers, and sub. When I started, I had less than $500 for a DVD player, receiver, and speakers, so I could have gotten the entire surround-sound system in a HTIB. However, I chose to start with a decent receiver, decent DVD player, and two Polk R50 speakers. I added the rest of the components later when I had the money. I'm very pleased with the system now and see no reason to upgrade in the near future (my 27" CRT is in MUCH more need of an upgrade).

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Thetech

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Are you sure you want to use the built-in speakers?

360 and Movies would be a LOT cooler with some good sound to go along with it.

Something like a ~$2500 Pioneer 5080 and a ~$500 HTIB from Onkyo would be a nice ~$3000 total system.

The Pioneer 5080 is only a 720p (768p) set, but they seem awesome from what I have read, and I think it would be a strong option for you vs. some of the 1080p options that would not have the same level of picture quality, despite better resolution.

I notice that you usually suggest Onkyo HTIB sets, are they a very good choice if you can't dedicate 2000 dollars to the audio part of a home theater, what type of compromise is being made by taking this choice?

They're an easy decent choice.

The main compromise is with the speakers, which is actually one of the most important components to a system, but for a $400-$500 total budget, the Onkyo sets offer good value in a full surround sound system that includes all the components you'd need.

If you're willing to put more effort into it, you can probably do better than the Onkyo sets for around the same budget and get a better surround system for the price, or you could get a starter system that you can add to over time by leaving yourself an upgrade path. I go into some detail on possibilities in the sticky thread up top.

Going with either a quality 2.0/2.1 set or a budget HTIB set for $500, you'll greatly enhance your experience. Using the speakers integrated into the display is going to really limit how realistic and enveloping your experience is going to be. Even spending a couple hundred dollars towards a refurb Onkyo HT-SR600 for $170 would greatly enhance the movie / gaming experience.

There are some compromises to HTIB sets and budget speakers, but it's nowhere near as bad as the compromises made to speakers integrated into displays.

 

[FallenHero]

I suppose I should say WHY I want the built in speakers:

In my apartment, we currently don't have room for my (current) surround sound system and we don't feel like pissing off the neighbors. Believe me, I would buy bear bones if I could, but I'd like to have sound while I wait to move out june of next year.

So what you guys are saying is that unless I buy 70 incher, the 1080p does nothing compared to 720p?

 

[mallik]

What about the Panasonic TH-50PZ700U?

 

[FallenHero]

Originally posted by: mallik
What about the Panasonic TH-50PZ700U?

I actually have looked hard and long into that, but I wanted ATOT opinion on it. Fry's online has it for 2000 shipped. Good deal?

EDIT: Price went up in a day...2200 for it shipped.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: FallenHero
I suppose I should say WHY I want the built in speakers:

In my apartment, we currently don't have room for my (current) surround sound system and we don't feel like pissing off the neighbors. Believe me, I would buy bear bones if I could, but I'd like to have sound while I wait to move out june of next year.

So what you guys are saying is that unless I buy 70 incher, the 1080p does nothing compared to 720p?

Some say that. They're usually the guys with the 720p sets.

Get the Panny.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: FallenHero
I suppose I should say WHY I want the built in speakers:

In my apartment, we currently don't have room for my (current) surround sound system and we don't feel like pissing off the neighbors. Believe me, I would buy bear bones if I could, but I'd like to have sound while I wait to move out june of next year.

So what you guys are saying is that unless I buy 70 incher, the 1080p does nothing compared to 720p?

Some say that. They're usually the guys with the 720p sets.

Get the Panny.

I wouldn't say 1080p is completely useless, but resolution is NOT the most important attribute of image quality. The four aspects of picture quality (in order of importance) are contrast ratio, color saturation, color accuracy, and resolution. 1080p definitely has some merit, but the more-important thing is that it's easily marketable. It's a number that a company can use to say why their TV is "better" than another one.

I would choose the Pioneer 5080 720p TV over the Panny or Samsung 1080p TV as long as I'm sitting 8 feet or more away from the TV. If you look at the reviews of the Pioneer 5080 in the link I provided above, none of them said that it was the best-looking 720p flat-panel TV they had ever seen. They said it was THE BEST flat-panel TV they had ever seen. These were professional reviewers who have reviewed 1080p TVs before, and many of them used 1080p TVs in comparison to the Pioneer 5080. CNET seemed to be the least-impressed reviewer of the Pioneer 5080; however, they gave it an 8.7 rating (link), which is their highest rating of any TV, and their Editors' Choice award, while they gave the Panasonic 58" 1080p TV an 8.0 rating (link).

If I were you, I'd click this link and order the Pioneer 5080 for $2,599 with free white-glove delivery from Amazon. This means that the delivery people will bring the TV into your home, unbox it, and set it on your TV stand for you. Not only is it nice to not have to get someone to help you do this, but it also gives you plenty of opportunity to check for damages before signing for delivery.

Before someone slams me as opposing 1080p, I do not. However, it's an attribute that requires you to sit closer than the average person in order to reap the benefits. If the OP sits 6-7 feet away from the TV, then he should definitely get a 50" 1080p TV. However, at 8+ feet away, he most likely won't see the benefit of 1080p; however, he will most definitely see the benefits of the deeper black levels, better contrast ratio, and better processing of the Pioneer 5080.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: FallenHero
I suppose I should say WHY I want the built in speakers:

In my apartment, we currently don't have room for my (current) surround sound system and we don't feel like pissing off the neighbors. Believe me, I would buy bear bones if I could, but I'd like to have sound while I wait to move out june of next year.

So what you guys are saying is that unless I buy 70 incher, the 1080p does nothing compared to 720p?

Some say that. They're usually the guys with the 720p sets.

Get the Panny.

1080p is certianly better--but you can't perceive a differnece at anything below 50", so there really is no reason for it. Like I said, if the price were the same, there'd be no reason to not go 1080, but the difference in price makes a 42~60" 1080p set an idiotic buy, IMO.

Again, the advantage that is offered with going 1080 only comes into effect the bigger the screen is. the electronics in the set can tell the difference b/w a 1080 and 720 signal at "lower" screen sizes, but your eyes can't--and that's all that matters

EDIT: but if you were going 70 inches, then sure, 1080 is better. the difference is negligible b/w 42" (and less, of course) to maybe 60". I'm sure some could tell a difference at 60...

 

[Gunslinger08]

Get the Samsung FPT-5084. I've had mine for a few weeks and I love it.

You can get it for $2140 shipped at Amazon.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: FallenHero
I suppose I should say WHY I want the built in speakers:

In my apartment, we currently don't have room for my (current) surround sound system and we don't feel like pissing off the neighbors. Believe me, I would buy bear bones if I could, but I'd like to have sound while I wait to move out june of next year.

So what you guys are saying is that unless I buy 70 incher, the 1080p does nothing compared to 720p?

Some say that. They're usually the guys with the 720p sets.

Get the Panny.

1080p is certianly better--but you can't perceive a differnece at anything below 50", so there really is no reason for it. Like I said, if the price were the same, there'd be no reason to not go 1080, but the difference in price makes a 42~60" 1080p set an idiotic buy, IMO.

Again, the advantage that is offered with going 1080 only comes into effect the bigger the screen is. the electronics in the set can tell the difference b/w a 1080 and 720 signal at "lower" screen sizes, but your eyes can't--and that's all that matters

EDIT: but if you were going 70 inches, then sure, 1080 is better. the difference is negligible b/w 42" (and less, of course) to maybe 60". I'm sure some could tell a difference at 60...

STOP THE MISINFORMATION.

1080p assists with ALL sources regardless of viewing distance. If you like scaling artifacts and what not, then by all means don't get real HD.

We are almost into the year 2008. If you aren't buying a 1080p display you are justifying purchasing inferior video quality.

Do you really want to throw away resolution on HD?
Do you really want scaling artifacts from most all HD content?
Do you really want bad scaling with 480 content?

Then by all means, don't get a 1080 display.

 

[SLCentral]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: FallenHero
I suppose I should say WHY I want the built in speakers:

In my apartment, we currently don't have room for my (current) surround sound system and we don't feel like pissing off the neighbors. Believe me, I would buy bear bones if I could, but I'd like to have sound while I wait to move out june of next year.

So what you guys are saying is that unless I buy 70 incher, the 1080p does nothing compared to 720p?

Some say that. They're usually the guys with the 720p sets.

Get the Panny.

1080p is certianly better--but you can't perceive a differnece at anything below 50", so there really is no reason for it. Like I said, if the price were the same, there'd be no reason to not go 1080, but the difference in price makes a 42~60" 1080p set an idiotic buy, IMO.

Again, the advantage that is offered with going 1080 only comes into effect the bigger the screen is. the electronics in the set can tell the difference b/w a 1080 and 720 signal at "lower" screen sizes, but your eyes can't--and that's all that matters

EDIT: but if you were going 70 inches, then sure, 1080 is better. the difference is negligible b/w 42" (and less, of course) to maybe 60". I'm sure some could tell a difference at 60...

STOP THE MISINFORMATION.

1080p assists with ALL sources regardless of viewing distance. If you like scaling artifacts and what not, then by all means don't get real HD.

We are almost into the year 2008. If you aren't buying a 1080p display you are justifying purchasing inferior video quality.

Do you really want to throw away resolution on HD?
Do you really want scaling artifacts from most all HD content?
Do you really want bad scaling with 480 content?

Then by all means, don't get a 1080 display.

I know how strongly you feel about this, spidey, but still, a Pioneer 5080 kills a Panasonic 50PZ700U. Color accuracy and contrast just seem to be more important at this size. Then again, the Pioneer 5010 is the best of both worlds .

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: spidey07
STOP THE MISINFORMATION.

1080p assists with ALL sources regardless of viewing distance. If you like scaling artifacts and what not, then by all means don't get real HD.

We are almost into the year 2008. If you aren't buying a 1080p display you are justifying purchasing inferior video quality.

Do you really want to throw away resolution on HD?
Do you really want scaling artifacts from most all HD content?
Do you really want bad scaling with 480 content?

Then by all means, don't get a 1080 display.

If this is true, then explain why PROFESSIONAL reviewers who have reviewed many 1080p TVs say that the Pioneer 5080 (non-1080p) is THE BEST flat-panel TV they've EVER seen.

Also, since you used the word "MISINFORMATION", I'd like to point out the misinformation in your words "Do you really want bad scaling with 480 content?" Last time I check a 1080p TV had to scale 480 content just like a 768p TV does. Once again, the Pioneer 5080 has better processing than the Panny 50PZ700U and will therefore display 480 content BETTER than a TV that has the "all-important" (quoted for irony) phrase 1080p written on the box.

 

[spidey07]

It's a known fact that you can scale 480 better with 1080 display than a 768 one. There just isn't any compelling reason today to not get a 1080p display.

This entire board is so full of misinformation on HD, the BS misinformation has to be stopped in it's tracks.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It's a known fact that you can scale 480 better with 1080 display than a 768 one. There just isn't any compelling reason today to not get a 1080p display.

This entire board is so full of misinformation on HD, the BS misinformation has to be stopped in it's tracks.

the compelling reason is price difference. strangely enough, not everyone on this planet, let alone on these boards, has the limitless funds (that you seem to possess) to throw at 1080p only.

besides, your arguments have yet to be backed up with facts, whereas the non-1080p argument has a rather strong, data-based following

nothing to get into a flame war over.

 

[spidey07]

zin, I don't have limitless funds. Just REALLY into audio/video.

sorry if I came off rude. It triggers the same reaction as when somebody says "plasmas explode after two years".

 

[zinfamous]

I know what you mean (hehe...that's why I refused to get a plasma...then I got one...now I don't believe it ).

It's just starting to sound like the Blu-Ray v HD DVD fussin' and feudin'

The way I see it is that the majority of people won't be able to distinguish these differences (strange, I know, but there are still some people who have no idea what Pan & Scan is and how to spot it). It's like the ultra high-end audio group. I read some article several years ago that compared the sensitivity of the human ear (frequency, db capability, whatever--all mumbo jumbo to me), and showed that the thousands people put into high end speakers is wasted on technology that might make a dog howl, but no human would be the wiser. There are systems that are clearly better than others, but it seems that those that claim to distinguish these differences in the ultra high-end go in with a pre-conceived notion that there is a difference, and that they are already capable of hearing it. they have convinced themselves that they can separate these differences before they give themselves a chance to do it...

what it all comes down to in the end, imo, is what the user sees/hears/prefers.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It's a known fact that you can scale 480 better with 1080 display than a 768 one. There just isn't any compelling reason today to not get a 1080p display.

This entire board is so full of misinformation on HD, the BS misinformation has to be stopped in it's tracks.

A known fact by whom? Where's the support for your claims? Here's mine:

Quoted from CNET's review of Pioneer 5080 (link):

When we ran the PDP-5080HD through a battery of standard-def tests, courtesy of the HQV DVD played at 480i through the component input, it performed quite well. The set resolved every line of the DVD format (although the lines of horizontal resolution were less distinct than on the Samsung and the Toshiba), and the finest details in the stone bridge and grass scene looked as natural as we expect. The Pioneer did an excellent job of smoothing out jagged edges from diagonal lines, such as the stripes on a waving American flag. We also really appreciated the two kinds of noise reduction, each available in three strengths in addition to "off," because they went a long way in reducing--and in some cases eliminating--the moving motes of snowy video noise in the skies and sunsets from the disc. The Pioneer also effectively, if not as quickly as most other sets, implemented 2:3 pull-down detection in all of its video modes.

Quoted from CNET's review of Panasonic 58PZ700U (link):

The big Panasonic's standard-def video quality was a bit disappointing. It resolved every vertical line of resolution from the DVD, although horizontal resolution was not fully resolved, which softened some of the test scenes such as the fine brickwork in the stone bridge. The Panasonic was mediocre at removing jagged edges from moving diagonal lines, and we saw some evidence of jaggies in the waving American flag. Despite the presence of three different on/off controls for noise reduction, none of them were effective at cleaning up the noisy shots of skies, clouds, and sunset beaches. The set engaged 2:3 pull-down processing quickly and effectively, however.

 

[FallenHero]

You can stop the debate. I'm going for the 5080 after doing additional research and taking these suggestions into account. Plus, Best buy is matching Amazon.com for me, so I get it for 1000 under what they currently have it listed as.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: FallenHero
You can stop the debate. I'm going for the 5080 after doing additional research and taking these suggestions into account. Plus, Best buy is matching Amazon.com for me, so I get it for 1000 under what they currently have it listed as.

Good choice! That's what I'm planning to get as well. I must ask. How the heck did you get Best Buy to price match Amazon?