Need Help w/Static Electricity

Scalptrash

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Apr 30, 2003
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For the second time in two months I touched my aluminum tower, got a shock and lost video and sound. The video card works fine in a different computer and I use onboard sound. It's an Abit IC7-G motherboard, Antec True 330 and a Raidmax aluminum case. The motherboard is mounted on the appropriate spacers and with the appropriate screws. The power supply is mounted correctly (only way possible). It is dry in here (winter in MN).
Is something not grounded? Not sure what else I could do so the motherboard doesn't absorb the ESD. Or at least the AGP and onboard sound chipsets.
I am not overclocking CPU, video or RAM. I have burbur carpet and the tower is on the carpet, which may matter.
The motherboard is under warranty and fortunately Abit has replaced it once, so far. I want to prevent it from happening again, if possible. Any ideas?
 

morkinva

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Nov 16, 1999
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I'd check to see if your outlet is properly grounded. A quick check could be done with one of these, I bought mine at home depot for $6 or so.

If you have a decent surge protector, they usually have a light on them indicating proper ground. You could also obtain case ground by connecting a properly grounded coax cable to your video capture card input, albeit a temporary fix.

Those zaps can be pretty powerful (and hurt like a bitch), but I'd think a well grounded case should absorb it okay.
 

Scalptrash

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Apr 30, 2003
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Thanks for the suggestions. I do have a very good surge protector that actually has an audible alarm if the outlet is not grounded, so I am pretty sure it is. Could the power supply be bad? It works fine as far as power is concerned, but maybe the ground lead(s) to the motherboard are bad? Don't know, I am guessing.
I know the motherboard is grounded to the case with the screws and metal spacer mounts, but how is the entire case grounded? Is it just through the power supply physically touching the case? Are there ground wires in the wires that plug into the mobo? Never really thought about how everything is grounded until now, anyone know for sure?
 

Matthias99

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Oct 7, 2003
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You *don't* want the motherboard grounded to the case through the standoffs; that'll short it out and cause problems (thus the whole point of the standoffs!). The case *is* usually grounded via contact with the PSU, but this is not necessary (for instance, you can get acrylic plastic cases, which are totally nonconductive). All the black wires coming from the PSU are ground, and are used as the electrical ground for all your components.

I would guess that your motherboard is shorting to the case somehow; try replacing the metal standoffs with plastic ones (check at CompUSA/Frys/Micro Center/etc. for them), or use plastic washers in between the standoffs and screws. It could also be a bad power supply, but check the case first.
 

Big Lar

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Oct 16, 1999
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Check by the I/O shield,(the silver plate behind the mobo that is where you plug in all cables), and if you have a slide out mobo tray, see if it rattles a bit if moved back and forth, if so, either wedge it somehow to tighten it up, or ground the tray via a ground wire to the case.
 

Scalptrash

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Apr 30, 2003
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Thanks for the suggestions! Big Lar makes a good point, even if I had plastic standoffs, the I/O shield touches the metal parts of the mobo where the cables get plugged in. So there is still metal contact between the mobo and the case, right? Or is the I/O shield there for that reason, to shield the mobo from making contact? Why are most standoffs metal, or aren't they conductive? Plus the mobo's have metal around each screw hole, or is that just for strength? Plus, wouldn't the ESD have to jump from the standoff/screw to the actual chip that is getting zapped? There aren't any wires (integrated) touching the metal around the screws.
Sorry for the all of the questions, I actually know enough about computers to be dangerous, but this has me baffled. I don't want to have to go through this every month, plus Abit might get fed up with me!
Thanks for the help!
 

Mark R

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Oct 9, 1999
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The best way to stop the static electricity from affecting the sensitive electronics is to ensure that there is a very good connection around the electronics - so that the charge will take the easy route.

You need to make sure that all the metal parts of the case, are well connected to all the other metal parts. An unfortunate problem with aluminium is that it forms an oxide layer on the surface (this prevents corrosion, but also can act as an electrical insulator). If necessary, clean the edges of all the aluminium panels with sandpaper, and ensure that there is good contact between them. If there are loose panels, consider attaching wires to connect them electrically to the main body of the case.

Make sure that your power cable is OK, and that the earth connection is making good contact - both in your power strip, and to your PSU. Make sure that your PSU is firmly attached to the case, and that there is a good electrical connection. Make sure that your motherboard is fitted correctly on the appropriate metal spacers - make sure that each screw makes good electrical contact with the motherboard and spacer. The spacers are metal for a reason - it's too ensure that the mobo gets an excellent ground connection.
 

Matthias99

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Oct 7, 2003
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Big Lar makes a good point, even if I had plastic standoffs, the I/O shield touches the metal parts of the mobo where the cables get plugged in. So there is still metal contact between the mobo and the case, right? Or is the I/O shield there for that reason, to shield the mobo from making contact?

I think the I/O shield is there mostly so that you don't have a big gaping hole in the back of your system. :D

It is possible, however, that static is jumping through the shield and into one of those connectors. You might try just removing the I/O shield entirely and see if that helps, or simply running your motherboard outside the case. If the motherboard isn't even touching the case and a static jolt still sets it off, you're having a power supply issue.

The spacers are metal for a reason - it's too ensure that the mobo gets an excellent ground connection.

No, the spacers are metal because it's cheaper to make tiny little threaded metal standoffs than tiny little threaded plastic ones. The motherboard does *not* get its ground connection from the case/spacers. It's wired to ground in the PSU through the ATX power header. Thus why you can run it in a nonconductive case, or sitting outside a case on a piece of cardboard, etc... Now, a particular motherboard might tie those standoffs to ground, but it's certainly not required. In fact, I suspect it would cause problems if the case wasn't actually grounded well.

 

Mark R

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: Matthias99
Big Lar makes a good point, even if I had plastic standoffs, the I/O shield touches the metal parts of the mobo where the cables get plugged in. So there is still metal contact between the mobo and the case, right? Or is the I/O shield there for that reason, to shield the mobo from making contact?

I think the I/O shield is there mostly so that you don't have a big gaping hole in the back of your system. :D

It's for EMC compliance - i.e. prevention of electro-magnetic interference. It should be a tight fit into the case, and ideally the case should have spingy clips, or metal coated rubber seals, which ensure a reliable electrical contact. The better the electrical contact, the more likely it is to contain any interference within the chassis.

As it provides electrical shielding, it will also help with static protection - a solid metal shield will prevent the static charge from entering. It simply allows the charge to flow around the sensitive circuits - rather than through them.

That's also how modern anti-static bags work. The older ones used very slightly conductive plastic (these are black, or blue) - these would prevent static building up on the chip from the chip moving around inside the bag, by constantly allowing it to discharge. Modern PC chips are too sensitive for these bags, and can still be damaged from an external static discharge. Modern bags, use the conductive plastic, but surround it with an aluminium coating, which is then insulated from the outside. The metal coating acts as a shield and prevents external static charges being conducted in.

The spacers are metal for a reason - it's too ensure that the mobo gets an excellent ground connection.

No, the spacers are metal because it's cheaper to make tiny little threaded metal standoffs than tiny little threaded plastic ones. The motherboard does *not* get its ground connection from the case/spacers. It's wired to ground in the PSU through the ATX power header. Thus why you can run it in a nonconductive case, or sitting outside a case on a piece of cardboard, etc... Now, a particular motherboard might tie those standoffs to ground, but it's certainly not required. In fact, I suspect it would cause problems if the case wasn't actually grounded well.

Yes, the motherboard is grounded through the power connector - but there are problems associated with a single ground point, and ESD (electro-static discharge) is one of them.

ESD is, very characteristically, extremely brief (nanoseconds), high-voltage, and often relatively high current. It can therefore cause significant voltages to be generated across even very small resistances or very small inductances. If an ES discharge enters a motherboard via a port, and the only ground point is the ATX connector, then there could be substantial transient voltages generated within the mobo's ground planes - and could very easily cause malfunction or damage.

A well recognised technique is to ensure that there are multiple connection points throughout the ground plane - where the internal ground plane can be bonded to chassis ground: the best way to protect against large jumps in potential, is to ensure that all points jump together.

Of course, this assumes that the case is well grounded. The PSU should ground the case, via its attachment - and all parts of the case should be electrically connected to each other. Unfortuately, aluminium is a potentially a problem in PCs - because of the surface coating. Most Al is 'anodised' - a process which greatly thickens the insulating oxide layer on the surface. This is a disaster in terms of EMI and ESD protection - unfortunately, most Aluminim PC cases I've seen are made from anodised aluminium, instead of the more appropriate chromated aluminium.


 

Scalptrash

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Apr 30, 2003
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I guess I have started quite the discussion. I appreciate all of the advice and education you guys have provided.
I now have another new mobo from Abit to install, which I am going to do tomorrow. The shock's that I received occurred by touching the case itself and not the I/O shield or anything in the back.
I am confused about whether or not I should use plastic standoff's because the I/O shield is metal and makes contact with both the mobo and the case, so I would assume it defeats the purpose?
The more I read, the more I start to think that the power supply may be at fault. Why or how, I am not sure, because it works fine otherwise. I will remount the PSU and sand down the areas of the case that make contact with it, hopefully that will resolve the issue. I won't really know unless it never happens again! Any other suggestions that I should do, no matter what?
 

pyrokk

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Aug 26, 2002
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I agree, i'm highly suspect of the power supply. The reason why I say this is because your computer's case should be grounded directly at the power supply. If you arc to your case, the ground should absorb all of the static electricty and not affect anything else