Need help tweaking Vice City on my setup.

[Naruto]

My setup:

Pentium IV 1.6a @ 2.4
Epox 4g4a+
512mb pc2700 @ 374mhz
Albatron Geforce 4 ti4200 @ 315/700
Detonator 43.45
SB Live!

Currently I get 1024x768 @ max detail ok, but many times when I drive the pavement and building textures look like they were prematurely loaded, they get correctly placed about 3 seconds later. Can anyone help with this? I would like to run at 1280x1024 also, but i get hard of steering when driving and making turns.

 

[boyRacer]

is vsync on? and keep frame limiter on... i know it sucks but hey...

 

[kylebisme]

win98 compatablity mode should let you get away with keeping the framelimiter off.

 

[Viper96720]

Frame limiter on won't hurt anything. It is a console port afterall. Run the frame limiter and crank up all the details

 

[beatle]

Turning the frame limiter on makes a huge difference! It locks you in @ 30fps instead of well over the 60fps that your monitor is capable of.

 

[stockspeedsrule]

Hey Naruto, what overclocking utility are you using? Powerstrip allows only 539 mhz for memory?

 

[BoomAM]

Right then. A lesson in GTA gfx. In GTA2/GTA3/GTA:VC there is a frame limiter. Its not there for the developers to piss us off with, its there for a reason.
The GTA games, when run above what the frame limiter allows, speeds up, everything, movement, firing, turning, the sound, everything.
So, while it might seem smooth at 80fps, as soon as something complex happens and it drops to say, 40fps, then it seems to lag or jump or go jerky. When run at a constant 30fps which the frame limiter does, it doesnt go jerky or laggy or jumpy. It smooths it out.
Who give a flying sh1t about it it runs at 30fps? 25fps is all thats needed for smooth gameplay, and people need to get over this fetish of huge frame rates means better gameplay/gfx.

As for the the dodgy graphics rendering/texture problems, ViceCity uses a a graphics technique called streaming, it loads the textures as a when they are needed, and doesnt load things that it doesnt need. This technique has been optimised for 30fps gameplay, so at 30fps or lower the textures will load fine, but at over that, it`ll be a bit dodgy and wont nessessarily load the textures up right.

So, in short, switch on the frame limiter, and the chances are the game will be smooth again, and you can probably raise the res/view distance and still keep it smooth, as long as the frame limiter is on.

 

[Mingon]

Who give a flying sh1t about it it runs at 30fps? 25fps is all thats needed for smooth gameplay, and people need to get over this fetish of huge frame rates means better gameplay/gfx.

Wrong, wrong and wrong

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Mingon

Who give a flying sh1t about it it runs at 30fps? 25fps is all thats needed for smooth gameplay, and people need to get over this fetish of huge frame rates means better gameplay/gfx.

Wrong, wrong and wrong

I tell you what. You explain whats wrong, and then i`ll show you up.
Does you telly show the images jerky? No, didnt think so, and guess what most tellys run at 25fps. Same for DVDs.
30fps i more than acceptable, as long as it can be maintained at that level.
Heres a task for you, go and load up GTA3 or VC, switch frame limiter off, with fraps in the background, and i can bet you that everytime that the frame rate drops below half of what the average is, it`ll seem jerky or jumpy. Then switch it on, and tell me you noticed jerky/jumpyness.

 

[policy11]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

Originally posted by: Mingon

Who give a flying sh1t about it it runs at 30fps? 25fps is all thats needed for smooth gameplay, and people need to get over this fetish of huge frame rates means better gameplay/gfx.

Wrong, wrong and wrong

I tell you what. You explain whats wrong, and then i`ll show you up.
Does you telly show the images jerky? No, didnt think so, and guess what most tellys run at 25fps. Same for DVDs.
30fps i more than acceptable, as long as it can be maintained at that level.
Heres a task for you, go and load up GTA3 or VC, switch frame limiter off, with fraps in the background, and i can bet you that everytime that the frame rate drops below half of what the average is, it`ll seem jerky or jumpy. Then switch it on, and tell me you noticed jerky/jumpyness.

You are wrong, get this. If you cant tell the difference between 25fps/30fps when compared to 60fps something is wrong...

 

[BoomAM]

Like i said, try out the things on GTA3 and VC that i said.
Its only under certain situation and under certain game engines that that age old rule of faster fps means better/smooth gfx. You will be getting a big shock when Doom3 comes out if you think that 30fps or even 25fps is crap.

 

[waylman]

from what i've heard 30fps in vice city is smooth....I'll find out tonight as my vid card finally gets back from RMA! Do you own vice city policy11?

 

[Mingon]

Lets see were can I start. 25fps for telly, firstly thats doubled for interlacing so 50fps if you wish (PAL) or 60 for ntsc. and even then most films / tv shows (excluding cartoons/CGI) display motion blur which is very effective at fooling the brain that more images are being shown. computer games as you obviously know (note sarcasm mode on) do not show motion blur (except Q3 on voodoo vsa 100 series) and so each frame is a single 'cell' of animation which your brain* picks up on quite quickly . (*only applicable where said person has full function of said body part)

Now as for GTA vice city I have been playing that at the moment on my widescreen 32" tv, and if you think that playing with frame limiter on is as smooth as with it off then go see an optician. Next time you want to shout your mouth off try searching this forum for FPS or Refresh rate you will see a couple of very big threads with people like me and BFG10k having to explain to people like you every 3 months on average.

 

[kylebisme]

1)fps is not directly linked to gameplay speed in gta3 or vice city.
2)streaming is not directly linked to the fps either, at least not in win9x or winxp running in win98 compatibility mode.
3) the framerate necessary for something to seem smooth depends on very many factors, including the very personal matter what an individuals eyes/brain have grown accustomed to. while it is true that there are some people who simply stare at the frame counter and whine, that does not discount the fact that what looks smooth to you may not look smooth to the next person.

 

[BoomAM]

Look, the fact of the matter is, with the frame limiter on, alot of the jerkyness from GTA/GTA:VC goes. Dispute it as much as you want, but ive seen plenty of people complain about poor performance, and it is then fixed when i tell them to switch on the frame limiter. THIS IS A FACT.
Im not the one needing to see an optician, as long as the frame rate is above 25fps, then it is smooth. Full Stop. THIS IS ALSO A FACT.

I find it funny that you say "people like me" and that you and BFG10K are always having to explain things to "people like me", fyi, in alot of threads that both BFG10K & me are involved in, i cannot recall us at anytime disagreeing. You seem to have it in your head that you know everything and that you are always right. No one knows everything.

You provide some valid comments about TVs, and you obviously know alot about them, i do not, and so i cant only go on what ive learned from various sources, however, when it comes to computer games and their engines, as well as the inner workings of a graphics rendering engine, i could probably baffle you with what i know, as you could baffle me with what you know about TVs. GTA was designed to run at 30fps. Just play GTA2 on a modern day PC with the frame limiter off, you could run accross the city in less than a minute, but with the frame limiter on, it plays at a normal speed. GTA3/VC are not as bad as this, but when the frame rate drops from the lofty hights of 80+ fps, to say 30-40fps, then the game will seem jumpy/jerky.

Its been said on the official VC forums that when the Frame Limter is off, then it can cause problems with the streaming, and that the streaming has been optimised for 30fps. When i switch off the frame limiter, and an speeding down a road at top speed in a PJC-600, then i can clearly see that the game has trouble texturing the building/roads at a pace that keeps up with me. With Frame Limiter on, the game has no such trouble. So streaming works best with frame limiter on.

People have got to get it into their heads that 30fps does not mean jerky, unplayable gameplay and/or better gfx quality. Look at DX2, Warren Spector himself has said that he is aiming for 30fps with DX2.

 

[policy11]

Originally posted by: waylman
from what i've heard 30fps in vice city is smooth....I'll find out tonight as my vid card finally gets back from RMA! Do you own vice city policy11?

yes

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: waylman
from what i've heard 30fps in vice city is smooth....

At 30fps its is very smooth, no jerky/jumpyness whatsoever.

 

[policy11]

Originally posted by: BoomAM

People have got to get it into their heads that 30fps does not mean jerky, unplayable gameplay and/or better gfx quality. Look at DX2, Warren Spector himself has said that he is aiming for 30fps with DX2.

Well I never said that, I just wanted to point out that there is a visible difference between 25fps,30fps, and 60fps. 25 and 30fps are both playable.

 

[BoomAM]

Polocy11, I wasnt pointing the finger at you. No offence.

What i ment was, as long as 30fps can be maintained, then its just as good as 60fps, but 60fps is usually prefered cos if a lot goes on, and the fps goes down, then it wont go as jerky. If a system is capible of rendering a game at a constant 30fps, no matter what happens, then its more than enough for anything.

 

[kylebisme]

not true for me, i need ~40fps for things to look smooth, hence why i play in win98 compatibility mode with the frame limiter off in vice city. i even suffer with messed up sound in the cut scenes as it is a reasonable sacrifice for the smoother looking animation in my opinion.


oh and BoomerAM, what offical vice city forums? i did not know there was any, could you please give a link?

 

[BoomAM]

Ive just checked the forums, its not 100% official, but it is listed as a top fan site on the official website, so the developers must check them out.
In most games, i prefer anything over 40fps, but in GTA3/VC 30fps is fine if it smooths the game out.

Heres a link to a thread which sorta mentions what i said about the frame limiter, but the one about streaming i cant find, there doesnt seem to be a search button.
http://www.gtaforums.com/ib/ikonboard.cgi?s=dfe502b87a845d0f1830b2189c7441c7;act=ST;f=80;t=96237

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

oh and BoomerAM, what offical vice city forums?....

Its BoomAM, but i`ll let you off. lol

 

[kylebisme]

ahh ya fair enough, i kinda figured that was the forums you were reffering to. it is the biggist ones but i rather doubt rockstar pays attention to it at all.

as for frame limiter smoothing out the gameplay, with the frame limiter off i do get an occasional hitch the first time a pedestrian shouts something, the first time i hit a car and damage it and so forth but after i play a few minutes it is smooth like butter. but just like the sound glitches in the cutscenes, those sacrifices are worth it for the improved smoothness on the framerate for me anyway. again, it is really a matter of personal preference.

 

[BoomAM]

Yeah, ive noticed that in alot of games that after a while, the jerkyness goes away, but alot of people play the first minute where its going to be jerky, then panic, and try everything to optimise it.
According to the post title, its an official bug report post, i wouldnt have thought that they`d be able to put "official" without rockstars approval.

On a side note, has anyone tryed out www.rockstarnorth.com , dam thats a cool website. You control a man to select the different menu options, it give a brief guide into what goes into making a game, its pretty good. You`ve gotta check it out. Notice that alot of the concept maps or pre-renders are parts of Liberty City.

 

[kylebisme]

ya rockstar does some really cool stuff with their websites, and funny stuff too. http://www.kentpaul.com/ is a riot and http://www.rockstargames.com/libertytree/ for gta3 as well. i just wish they would put that much efforts into the ports of their games as they do their websites so we didn't have to deal with goofy workaround for the framelimiter and stupid stuff like all the missing curbs in vc due to the added backface culling. :|


as for "official", i think that is just official for the forums themselves and i don't see how rockstar could have any say over that or want to for that matter.