Need help on HTPC selection...build - or Revo, Zino, etc.

[bchalker]

I have a 50" 1080p Panasonic Viera Plasma, and am looking to put an HTPC. I'm still learning about these, and want to make sure I have something that will be with me for a while.

Looking to stay around $350-$400

I'll be playing full DVD ISOs, blu-ray movie only ISOs, and various other videos...these will be from my external drive connected to the PC, so I'm no so concerned with streaming those. I do want to use Hulu and Netflix on it, though.

Will the Revo or baseline Zino be able to handle 1080p for that. It seems from what I've read, it can't very well, but I need someone to verify it.

Also, what is the best means to navigate the interface? Remote? Keyboard?

Will the Aeon skin work well on the REvo/Zino I mentioned?...or will I need to bump up the specs on them?

Am I better off to purchase ( I have a Vista and Win7 Home CD, but heard Ubuntu is better...not familiar, though) parts and do it myself? I'm comfortable with that, also.

 

[HN]

I have revo 3610*. with latest nvidia drivers and flash 10.1, 1080p youtube is a breeze. it might stutter every once in awhile on wireless but that's a network thing. plug in the cable and it's buttah!

mkv, wmv, xvid all fine. haven't installed QT alternative / lite yet to test mov but i'm sure it won't be an issue.

*refurbed, bought from revonate for $249 when it was in stock and had free shipping ( http://shop.revonate.com/Acer_Aspire_Revo_AR3610_U9022_Factory_Refurbish_p/l-pt.scx02.051.htm )

 

[poofyhairguy]

I disagree with HN. I think no matter what you do Flash performance on a Atom based system is unacceptable, with overclocked to 2GHZ and even with Flash 10.1.

If you want Flash, then pony up for something with a real CPU.

 

[kalrith]

I recommend looking at this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2084576. You can build a basic HTPC with a dual-core AMD processor, 4550 video card, and 4GB of RAM for about $250. Win7 MCE works just fine, and you can tweak it a lot (see www.hack7mc.com for details).

You have several options for controlling it. If you're just using MCE, you can make due with a remote and just use a USB keyboard/mouse for initial setup, changing the configuration, etc. Some devices like the Logitech diNovo Mini can be used as a keyboard, mouse, and remote.

Personally I use the diNovo Mini for my keyboard and mouse and use a Harmony remote with a USB IR receiver for the remote functions. I built my HTPC for about $250 a year ago (plus another $80 for the remote and $85 for an ATSC tuner). I upgraded to a 2TB drive and Win7 recently, but those upgrades should last me several years. I'm running an older dual-core AMD processor overclocked to 2.5 GHz with 4GB RAM and a 4550.

I like building my own systems rather than using pre-built ones, because I like being able to tweak and upgrade them at my leisure.

 

[HN]

I disagree with HN. I think no matter what you do Flash performance on a Atom based system is unacceptable, with overclocked to 2GHZ and even with Flash 10.1.

If you want Flash, then pony up for something with a real CPU.

my testimonial was from actual setup and use of the revo as i own it, not from reading spec sheets.

i don't have a way to film what it looks like but there's others out there who have -- www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydiwZlx-f-c (he switches to 1080p at around 2:10)

 

[MadScientist]

This would be the almost perfect ready-made HTPC. Asrock just came out with it. I have not seen it available for sale yet in the US or the price. From it's specs it's almost certain that it's not going to be within your budget, but worth mentioning.

■Intel® Core™ i7 / i5 / i3 Mobile Processor Family
■DDR3 1066MHz
■Intel® HD Graphics, Support Native Full HD 1080p Playback
■BD (Blu-ray Disc) Combo
■7.1 CH HD Audio with THX TruStudio Pro™
■MCE Remote Controller
■802.11n Wireless Networking (300Mbps)
■2 x USB 3.0

http://www.asrock.com/nettop/overview.asp?Model=Core%20100HT-BD

 

[bchalker]

Thanks for the info guys. Really helping.

... it's almost certain that it's not going to be within your budget, but worth mentioning.

From what I read, it's going for about 650-670 Euros currently (about $800) - Yep, out of my price range, but very sweet looking specs. Would be overkill for me, I think.

poofyhairguy - thanks for the PM about the Mac Mini. Would be nice, and the best fit for my wife, but budget keeps in too low to consider. Plex looked really good on it though.

 

[poofyhairguy]

my testimonial was from actual setup and use of the revo as i own it, not from reading spec sheets.

I have an ION box too. HD Flash just doesn't play as smoothly as it should on one.

 

[Dirigible]

Touching on one of your questions, I just use a $20 mce remote and event ghost to control everything. Everything being windows media center and xbmc on my case, plus rudimentary mouse controls.

In the rare event I need a keyboard I plug in a USB one. Used the kb and normal mouse to set everything up, but I only use one now if I'm installing or tweaking something.

 

[bearxor]

I've used a revo and have been pretty impressed with it. Might go with the dual-core model if you plan on doing flash.

I like the Zino but hate the ATI GPU. It doesn't accelerate certain types of x264. I have a 4550 with a Opteron 165 and some videos that were unwatchable on my HTPC played smooth as butter on a single-core Revo with Ion LE simply because the ATI card wouldn't hw accelerate the codec.

Take that for what it's worth anyways.

 

[Chapbass]

Woowwww pretty much exactly what I'll be building soon, but if that thing is competitive on price it could be worth a solid look.... Wonder when they'll start to offer it in the states.

This would be the almost perfect ready-made HTPC. Asrock just came out with it. I have not seen it available for sale yet in the US or the price. From it's specs it's almost certain that it's not going to be within your budget, but worth mentioning.

■Intel® Core™ i7 / i5 / i3 Mobile Processor Family
■DDR3 1066MHz
■Intel® HD Graphics, Support Native Full HD 1080p Playback
■BD (Blu-ray Disc) Combo
■7.1 CH HD Audio with THX TruStudio Pro™
■MCE Remote Controller
■802.11n Wireless Networking (300Mbps)
■2 x USB 3.0

http://www.asrock.com/nettop/overview.asp?Model=Core%20100HT-BD

 

[alcoholbob]

Since you are looking for bluray playback, to save you some grief, you should probably pick up the ATI 5450 GPU.

It's HDMI out has native support for 8 channel LPCM and Dolby TruHD/DTS-Master bitstreaming, and a host of 16 and 24bit sampling rates (44.1/48/88.2/96/176.4/192).

AFAIK the only stand alone sound card that can do this is the Asus HDAV 1.3 which is obviously more expensive and is single-function only.

 

[yuppiejr]

Couple questions/points of clarification:

Do you intend to ever play a Blu-Ray disc from the HTPC itself? How about DVD - does the machine need an optical drive at all?

Are you outputting HDMI from the HTPC to a reciever to decode audio, an older reciever with SPFIF/coax digital input or simply letting your TV's speakers handle audio (presumably coming over HDMI)?

Assuming case asthetics are important based on the machine you liked above but just validating - does this need to be a typical small desktop HTPC case or will a micro-ATX tower work?

Do you need significant local storage on the device or just enough to run the O/S and standard applications? (I wasn't clear if you intend to connect USB drive with your media to the HTPC or your existing PC and stream from it to your new HTPC box).

Any plans to add a QAM/ATSC off air HD tuner or CableCard tuner in the future (this will impact suggested storage and basic system specs)?


--

As for your questions above - I think Windows 7 Home Premium running Windows Media Center is your best bet, pair it up with a typical USB/IR media center remote for the 10-foot interface experience.

 

[yuppiejr]

Here are some preliminary thoughts on a solution... Since I don't see the free mainboard with the Athlon II/x2 250 at Micro Center for $65 any more (ouch!) here is a different build based on a promo combo from Newegg good through 7/5:

(BUNDLE) AMD Athlon II x4 630 CPU (quad core!), 2 gigs DDR2 RAM, Asus 785g based mainboard w/ HDMI output and all the HTPC goodies (perfectly capable of Blu-Ray / HD playback with the audio goodies right from the integrated GPU via HDMI) - $190

Western Digital 320 gig "AV" series GreenPower hard drive - $50

----> you could jump into a 1 TB Hitachi 7.2k RPM drive for $60 if you want more space for a good price <---

Apex / HEC mATX slim desktop HTPC case w/ flex PSU - $45

Scythe 80mm 1000 RPM case fan - $12

.. that will put you right around $300, $325 with freight.

Tack on $20 for a DVD drive or $60 for blu-ray drive if you so desire. If required it's $25 for the Win7 compatible Rosewill Media Center remote . I'd hold off throwing a discrete graphics card in the mix at this point, the ATI Radeon 5450 suggested above is a good card but I'm not sure it's required in this setup.

 

[bchalker]

yuppiejr - very nice specs and build you mentioned. Looks like I might go that route.

I do want a blu-ray player, but not required. I'll have the a lot of local media (on a TB drive), and my Onkyo receiver will do the HDMI passthough - is that what you were asking? Love having one HDMI cable going to the TV for everything (except my Wii )

I would like a QAM/ATSC off air HD tuner, to be used with Win 7 MCE. This will replace my directTV.

The type case I really like is - this Apex one (Zino look is about my style) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811154091

 

[yuppiejr]

yuppiejr - very nice specs and build you mentioned. Looks like I might go that route.

I do want a blu-ray player, but not required. I'll have the a lot of local media (on a TB drive), and my Onkyo receiver will do the HDMI passthough - is that what you were asking? Love having one HDMI cable going to the TV for everything (except my Wii )

I would like a QAM/ATSC off air HD tuner, to be used with Win 7 MCE. This will replace my directTV.

The type case I really like is - this Apex one (Zino look is about my style) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811154091

Hmm, the board in the bundle I linked is mATX, the ITX case you linked is smaller and would require a different mainboard which is going to up the cost of the system a bit, let me look at the egg and see what I can come up with. How important is the physical size of the box to you, are you willing to spend the extra cash without a significant performance payoff? You can add a blu-ray drive + a dual tuner HD card to this build and end up right at $450 shipped (assuming you also add $10 for the Hitachi 1 TB drive as well as the BR drive and tuner card).

If you're going to a reciever you are all set with this rig, the HDMI on-board will pass video and audio to your reciever so you can stick with the "one cable" model.

 

[bchalker]

The Zotac bundle (no memory though +$50 for that) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813500055 , that will fit the microITX.

Size not too big a factor. I can go with a mATX case...not that big a deal. Performance is the main priority.

 

[yuppiejr]

Alright, take 2 - ITX build this time:

Intel i3-530 Processor - $115
ECS HG55H mITX mainboard - $65 ($15 rebate)
2 gigs DDR3 (Crucial) - $51
Apex mITX case w/ PSU - $50
Scythe 80mm 1000 RPM fan - $12
Hitachi 1 TB 7.2k RPM SATA HDD - $60
LiteOn 4x Blu Ray drive - $60


.. gets you to $415, $435 with shipping. Add $30 each for USB ATSC/QAM tuners and again, $25 if you want a MCE remote.

 

[yuppiejr]

One thing to consider that isn't captured in the builds above is the TCO (total cost of ownership) associated with the Blu-Ray and DVR functions of Windows Media Center.

While $450 will get you the base hardware you are still going to need a Blu-Ray software player, generally $80-$100 on top of the $60 for the drive included in the hardware price. For the same price as the BR drive and software (around $150) you can buy a stand-alone player that does plays movies as well or better and duplicates most media-extender type capabilities (video/music/photos from a PC on your network) and online features like Blockbuster/Netflix online, Rhapsody/Pandora, etc..

On the DVR/HD side of the equation you really have two tiers to deal with...

Basic ATSC/QAM "free content" tuning just requires some extra drive space and a pair of tuners... figure $60-$70 (already in the price of the systems we discussed).

If you want to view or record anything in the encrypted/premium realm beyond basic cable you need cablecards. Adding a cablecard tuner to your media center is going to set you back $300-$400 on top of the price of the basic system which puts you easily into the $750-850 range.

I did some shopping around and found Blockbuster is clearing out their Tivo HD Series 3 boxes for $99 (in store) and you can grab the WD DVR 1 TB extender eSATA drive for another $113 at buy.com. All-in you're looking at $212 for 140 hours of HD storage plus $13 a month for their guide services (first 3 months free are currently included). You also get access to the "extender" features like Blockbuster/Netflix online and the various video/content sites supported by plugin apps. The TiVo can also stream content from PC's on the same network and share shows with other TiVo's or PC's on the network...

While I understand the interest in a DiY project I think people who embark on the HTPC mission and want "premium" DVR and Blu-Ray need to be aware that it's not necessarily the most cost effective solution. With massive extender style feature convergence in pretty much much every gaming console, blu ray player and DVR on the market coupled with highly flexible transcode software out there I think the HTPC is losing it's shine. Don't get me wrong, I love the Windows Media Center look and feel but when you look at the total cost to own it's tough to justify the headaches versrus easy to use "closed box" solutions.

I'd love to see Microsoft converge the Windows Media Center concept with the XBox gaming console by supporting cablecard, blu-Ray and a Zune dock on the same device to create the ultimate living entertainment room appliance. It would make support of the platform a lot easier (hardware/software variances and nuances are still a PITA in Windows 7 MC, far improved from XP MCE 2005 though) allowing for greater market penetration and a huge value proposition. Scale of economy on production cost and the ability to more closely focus on a standardized hardware + software platform could really make it a cost competitive solution.. the guts to run any of the 3 devices (game console, BR player, DVR) are so similar it seems like a no-brainer to converge the 3 into a lower cost (than separates) single box solution with an appropraite DVR subscription model and app/content/extras store. If TiVo can get people to fork over $400 plus $13 a month for their Premiere box and Microsoft can get $300 for a gaming console + the Live! subscription I think there's room in the market for this sort of product.

Just food for thought.. guess I should find something more productive to do with my time than wax about the future of converged multimedia devices.

 

[bchalker]

Blu-ray will be for ripping only. I'll rip them to a drive locally. Not getting cable and dropping DirectTv. I will download the majority of what we watch using BitTorrent. We watch most our shows on DVR now, days after it aired. BT has the same shows for download. I'm perfectly fine paying a Hulu subscription when it's made available, as well.

I love Tivo - but it doesn't work with DirectTV. I have a Series 2 unit with DVD player sitting in a room...just need to get rid of it.

No desire to view or record anything coming in, other than local stations. I'll watch my DVD/Blu rips, Netflix, and Hulu. With that...my wife, my kids, and I will be happy

$90/month just isn't worth what we need, so DirectTV will be gone.

To be honest, Popbox was my 1st choice - but it won't do Hulu and it won't do Netflix (at launch, at least). Love the simplicity and network aggregating of my media though a set-top like Popbox or WD Plus, but I think the HTPC will be a smoother fit for us.

 

[bchalker]

With the Zino - which would benefit ME more? An Upgraded video card or upgrade CPU...yes I know both would be ideal. Can I upgrade the CPU to a dual later on?

Also, can I add a 3.5" Blu-Ray player to the Zino, or is it a slimline?

 

[yuppiejr]

With the Zino - which would benefit ME more? An Upgraded video card or upgrade CPU...yes I know both would be ideal. Can I upgrade the CPU to a dual later on?

Also, can I add a 3.5" Blu-Ray player to the Zino, or is it a slimline?

The included BR drive is a slimline SATA version, not sure if the door bezel is unique to the case (might require trimming corners on an aftermarket drive). Some teardown/internals photos here:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/pcs/2010/02/16/dell-zino-hd-review/2

I'd probably opt to go with the 3250e dual core CPU, 2 gigs of RAM, the standard integrated ATI x3200 graphics (plenty for HD/BR) and add the blu-ray drive for $100. Should be a good combo for the uses you've identified.