Need help on first build

[thefork]

I put everything together, booted up, I have a 3.0C, Asus p4c-e dlx, mushkin 2-2-2 memory, antec true power 550, seagate 120gb, powercolor 9800 pro. everything went well, went into bios and started to configure, no overclocking or anything just basic stuff, time, etc..then the bios froze up!! I rebooted and it said there were corrupted bios and to put the Asus bios cd in, I did, it said flashed bios successfully, and to reboot, I rebooted, leaving the cd rom in and the computer screen was blank from then on out, all fans worked, the drives worked, but the screeen was permanently blank, like it was recieving no signal, please help.. Thanks PS, I checked the vid card on another computer and it works fine. I am at a loss.

 

[tw1164]

Do you hear the post beeps? If so, do you have an old pci video card? You may want to try booting with that, it may be an issue with the AGP slot.

 

[mechBgon]

Now try clearing the CMOS with the jumper (while system is unplugged from the wall).

If your system comes to life again, here is my recommendation for your next step: throw in a stick of slow non-special DDR like some Crucial PC2700 or something, along with the fancy 2-2-2 modules, so the motherboard temporarily adopts relaxed timings on the RAM. Next, set your memory speed and voltage manually to 2.5-3-3-7 and 2.7 volts at whatever overall speed the slow module can handle, then reboot and let it complete a POST before turning it off. Now remove your slow module, go into the BIOS and bring the memory frequency up to DDR400 but don't tighten the timings again nor lower the voltage. It's a fact that your motherboard's chipset doesn't like super-tight 2-2-2 timings, so you can blame Intel for this

 

[loafbred]

I'll second MechBgon's diagnosis. There have been scads of motherboards, of different chipsets, which have difficulty running at the RAM's SPD settings. They could eliminate this problem by not allowing a default setting so aggressive, but then they'd have another customer support issue with people not knowing how to adjust their BIOS, wondering why their system is a tad slower than another similar one.

If this is the problem and you do get it running at milder timings, I recommend adding dimm voltage and saving to BIOS *before* lowering latencies. I've had problems saving settings to BIOS if I started with low voltage and mild timings, then saved *both* higher voltage and tighter timings at the same time.

Edit: I just remembered that a lot of people don't plug the 4-pin ATX connector to the motherboard... wanted to make sure you did this.

 

[thefork]

I wish I would have known that this memory didn't do very well with my MOBO, I had to read both your posts about 3 times to try and understand. I have never done any adjusting of timings or voltage before, one thing I forgot to tell, the absolute first time I booted up I also got a "parity" error. So if I read you guys correctly, the default timings on this ram aren't really compatible with my board, so I will always have to run them with modified timings/voltage? I plugged both the 4 pin and the larger 12 pin atx into the board.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: thefork
I wish I would have known that this memory didn't do very well with my MOBO, I had to read both your posts about 3 times to try and understand. I have never done any adjusting of timings or voltage before, one thing I forgot to tell, the absolute first time I booted up I also got a "parity" error. So if I read you guys correctly, the default timings on this ram aren't really compatible with my board, so I will always have to run them with modified timings/voltage? I plugged both the 4 pin and the larger 12 pin atx into the board.

You're in luck because I have dealt with this same issue so many times that I finally went and made step-by-step instructions for someone, and here they are: click here

Hope that helps The person in that thread had the predecessor to your board, the P4C800 Deluxe, but I expect the BIOS menus will be identical for the memory configuration. Good luck thefork

I guess I should add that you don't want to set the memory speed higher than your "slow" module can handle. Do the voltage and timings, then save & exit and let it complete a POST that way, so it knows that the settings are workable. THEN shut down, pull out the slow module, go back and bump the memory speed to what it should be (meaning 400MHz).

Alternately, you could pick up some RAM that runs at slightly-more-relaxed timings by default, yeah.

 

[thefork]

Thank you very much for the help. If I cannot run it without stability issues at the 2-2-2, then it seems that I may have wasted the money for the ram. What ram do you recommend for this board? Would you keep the 2-2-2 and just relax the timings for stability or rma it and get other ram?

 

[mechBgon]

If it were me, I'd just relax the timings and call it good. While 2-2-2 is probably never going to work well, you can expect more overclocking headroom out of your high-end RAM as long as you have its timings relaxed a bit. If you're not overclocking then I guess it could be considered a waste... but look at it this way, how long would you be without your new computer if you did exchange RAM, and would that downtime be worth the money you might save? To me, I'd rather be out $40 than have my hot new system be down for a week Anyway, hope it works out for the best in the end... is the motherboard working again, by the way?

 

[thefork]

It is!!! Thank you so much, with this being my first build I was extremely frustrated and thought to myself, this is what I get for not just buying a Dell, but thanks to thoughtful people like you who are willing to give their time and thought to others I got it going, THANKS!!!!!

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: thefork
It is!!! Thank you so much, with this being my first build I was extremely frustrated and thought to myself, this is what I get for not just buying a Dell, but thanks to thoughtful people like you who are willing to give their time and thought to others I got it going, THANKS!!!!!

Excellent Come on back if you have any further difficulties!

 

[loafbred]

Originally posted by: thefork
So if I read you guys correctly, the default timings on this ram aren't really compatible with my board, so I will always have to run them with modified timings/voltage?

There are several things which can influence the timings you can use. I haven't played with Intel chipset boards in a long time, so I can't be specific there. The RAM you have is very high quality, and the manufacturer sets its onboard chip to supply the motherboard with 2-2-2 timings, and either 2.5 or 2.6v, if I'm not mistaken. Using more than one dimm generally reduces stability, so higher latencies are often required and/or more dimm voltage. This is sometimes caused by amperage available at the dimms, and at other times by the quality of the metal traces on the motherboard. The TRUE dimm voltage and amperage supplied by the motherboard can vary a good bit. It's not unusual to have to add .1v to get stability at default timings, provided that the motherboard/chipset are of high enough quality/compatibility to support the default timings. For instance, (according to Mushkin) my Athlon 64 can have difficulty running TRCD 2, at 200 bus or higher, and that is consistent with my experience with it.

Something that is very often overlooked when using very low latency RAM is that the increased data throughput can stress the cpu enough to bring about a need for a slight increase in cpu core voltage. Many motherboards undervolt a little, which can make this scenario even more likely. Considering the quality of your power supply, and the fact that you're using an Intel cpu, I'd say that it's unlikely. However, it is very common for people to experience this problem if they are overclocking with high latency RAM, and to then switch to low latency RAM.

 

[thefork]

After taking the slower ram out and putting the 2-2-2 in both slots, should I just keep lowering the timings as low as I can from the conservative settings? If it freezes up should I clear the cmos or just reboot?

 

[loafbred]

>>After taking the slower ram out and putting the 2-2-2 in both slots, should I just keep lowering the timings as low as I can from the conservative settings?<<

From what Mech said, I wouldn't go lower than CAS 2.0, TRCD 3, TRP 3, TRAS 7 with 2.6v, and don't be surprised if you need 2.7v. Run the machine for a couple of days, then try 2-3-2-6. I would do a Google search for "asus p4c-e review", and look at the settings achieved in a few reviews. Get a utility called "Memtest86", and run it at least once, each time you change settings.

>>If it freezes up should I clear the cmos or just reboot?<<

It depends on the model of board, and how badly it crashed. The way I understand it, some do a simple test for stability, then shut down if an error occurs. Some will automatically set the cpu and RAM settings to "auto", then prompt you to enter BIOS. As a rule, when you start testing the limits, be emotionally prepared to corrupt your O/S to the point that it can't even be repaired. I did that a few weeks ago, but I was prepared for the possibility. Not having your most prized data backed up would be a real pain.

The biggest concern I would have with using RAM which isn't stable at default settings, is for flashing the BIOS. I've only flashed mine once, and I used only one dimm, to be safe, since it is stable with one dimm and borderline with two, at default settings. It would be much safer to take out the low latency dimms and use something that you know will work at defaults, for flashing the BIOS.

 

[thefork]

Thank you, you guys are GREAT

 

[loafbred]

Glad to help. Half of the fun of tweaking computers is to see the results others get, at least for me. Have fun!

 

[thefork]

If you threw in cheaper 3200 ram along with the 2-2-2 would it be possible to? If the cheaper 3200 ram operates at slower timings will the motherboard automatically operate at the slower timings for both sticks or will the motherboard operate at slower timings for the slow ram and try to run at default for the 2-2-2?

 

[loafbred]

Pretty much all motherboards, these days, automatically lower either the timings or the bus speed, when two or more dimms are installed, and since you have a slower one to slow it down even more, you would probably be safe with those two dimms. If you've thoroughly tested the two dimms together at default SPD settings, you're definitely safe to flash.

 

[thefork]

If I increase the voltage to 2.75, will the voltage go back to default after flashing? Also, I don't have any 2700 to put in to be slower, I just have ddr3200 512 kingston value ram, that will do the same thing won't it as the 2700 in regards to speed? Does the computer automatically set the cas timings to the highest settings, meaning, if the kingston is 3-3-3 and I have the 2-2-2 in, will the mb then set the timings for 3-3-3 for both?

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: thefork
If I increase the voltage to 2.75, will the voltage go back to default after flashing?

The settings might stick... on my Asus K8V Deluxe, the BIOS settings were retained, for example. If in doubt, use your older stick of RAM to ensure that a drop in memory voltage doesn't leave your system stranded, then go right in and check to see if it retained the setting or not.