Need help - How to legally fire illegal alien w/ bum SSN?

[vi edit]

We've got a situation in one of our stores where we received a tip from multiple sources that two of the workers there were illegal immigrants. Our HR person pulled their listed SSN and called the Social Security office to validate the numbers. They came back as fraudulent.

Here's the problem - Social Security Office EXPLICITLY states that you cannot fire a person on the basis of fraudulent soc. numbers. My question is, as an employer, how can you legally terminate an illegal alien knowing this information???

Has anyone had to deal with a situation like this?

 

[Pacfanweb]

Just tell them their services aren't needed anymore. You don't have to have a reason to fire someone, just like they don't have to have a reason to quit.

 

[Czar]

If they are illegal aliens then do they have a permission to work in the country? if not then there is nothing stopping you from firing them, just from hiring them

 

[Need4Speed]

File a report with the INS, and they will come and haul them off.

 

[IJump]

Did they fill out an application and sign it saying that the information they provided was accurate? Then you fire them for falsifying an apllication, not for SSN fraud.

You still know the information, but are not firing them because of the SSN, you are firing them because they obtain employment under a fraudulent application.

 

[ViperXX]

Call INS to come pick them up and deport them.

 

[vi edit]

IJump, good idea, but I reviewed the application. There really isn't a clause in there that states that falsifying information is ground for termination. I'm still looking though.

 

[trmiv]

Wow, I had no idea people couldn't be fired for giving a fraudulent SSN. I would think that would legally be grounds for automatic termination. Weird. You could probably do a lot less, and legally be fired, but give a fake SSN and that's A OK.

 

[pyonir]

i agree with a couple other guys here....call INS and let them deal with it. good luck.

 

[b0mbrman]

<< Here's the problem - Social Security Office EXPLICITLY states that you cannot fire a person on the basis of fraudulent soc. numbers. >>


Now why would this be a law?

 

[911paramedic]

i agree with a couple other guys here....call INS and let them deal with it. good luck.

Ditto. INS will take them off your hands for you, that is a pretty hot issue with them right now.

 

[vi edit]

trmiv you're preaching to the choir man.

Anywho, I went and looked over the company handbook(which I didn't write) and found the following statement:



<<
Violations Requiring Warning or Dismissal

If an employee commits a violation listed below, disciplinary action may be a final written warning or dismissal. Each occurrence will be handled individually.

1. Refusal to perform work assigned by supervisor.
2. Falsification of employment applications.
3. Falsification of Company records and reports (Including time reports).
4. Leaving the Company premises during scheduled working hours without the permission of your supervisor.
>>



Bingo, I think we have a winner! Now, it's just a touchy situation of going about it to say that we didn't fire because of the faulty SSN, but because they

<< listed >>

a faulty SSN.

 

[shiner]

Call the INS.....then start the video camera and let the fun begin. "La Migra!! La Migra!!!!"

 

[burnedout]

vi_edit: My company had the same problem of illegals with bad SSNs on one of our contracts.

If you found out from the Soc Sec Administration their number was invalid, usually the Soc Sec Administration will ask that you send the illegal to them. If he/she returns, you can release them for an invalid SSN. If you don't after a certain amount of time, the Soc Sec Admin or INS can fine you.

 

[vi edit]

burnedout, we got an inhouse tip on them. Our HR person called SSN Administration to verify the numbers. All the SSN Admin could say was "I think you need to have them see us". (Us meaning SSN administration)

I think we are going to handle the situation as follows -

Approach said employees and tell them that we have concerns on the validity of their information on their application. We are going to require them to visit the local SSN office to validate their SSN's. If they don't go to the SSN office, then we can terminate them on the grounds of invalid application information. If they actually do go to the office, then the situation *should* correct itself.

 

[burnedout]

vi_edit: That's more or less what we did.

Usually if the SSN verification came up false, we notified the employee that he/she was required to visit the SS Admin office. Then we stated:

"Go there and return with a correct SS number. However, be advised that we must validate your number upon return. We would like for you to continue your employment However, if your SSN is invalid then we cannot employ you."

Even though I'm in IT here at the company, I had to fill in for a co-worker on occasion. What really shocked me was that SS card fraud is so rampant.

 

[vi edit]

I'm IT as well, but my HR administrator comes to me for ideas every now and then

 

[IJump]

<< I'm IT as well, but my HR administrator comes to me for ideas every now and then >>



As someone here said to a new person the other day,

"This is Bob, he is our Network administrator, he does everything."

 

[glen]

Then again, if they are hard workers, why fire them?

 

[notfred]

Does he do a good job? Ever think of encaouraging him to become a legal immigrant before firing him? If he was, say, trying to get his citizenship, I'd cut him some slack. I think you talk to him and tell him that you know, give him a week to show you evidence that he's working on becoming legal... otherwise tell him you're calling the INS.

 

[burnedout]

We usually made a copy of the card and placed it in his personnel file.

Had one guy who returned 3x with three different cards. After the "lessons learned", we came out up front and stated that if the SSN was invalid, it may be a reason for termination.

As you know, the possibilities with a PC, decent printer and scanner are nearly endless in relation to this sort of thing. Bad SSNs are fairly commonplace around here in certain types of industries.

 

[b0mbrman]

<< Then again, if they are hard workers, why fire them? >>


I think vi's just covering his own a*s which is a good thing since no one will do it for you these days...Who's gonna be in trouble if someone finds he knowingly kept illegal immigrants on the payroll?

He is

 

[chuckieland]

anyhow, i did like to know what the resoult of this
so please post follow up
and anybody know if you were to hire people to work for you in Canada
what is the best please or website to go to get all the important information
to protect the company for many situation.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

If they're illegal and cannot furnish proof that they can work in this country, that is your way out (though if they can furnish proof then they're probably not illegal)