Question Need help finding a safe, non-burning, non-exploding UPS, and one that is not from Cyberpower brand?

[catboy]

I used to use a Cyberpower UPS. It worked great for a couple of years, until the battery permanently lost its charge and was unable to hold a charge any more.

As soon as that happened, the UPS shut down and also immediately cut power to everything connected to it, including my PC.

I tried to turn the UPS back on, and then restart my PC.

After a few minutes, the same disaster happened again. Then I tried a couple of more times, and it kept happening after every 2 minutes or so.

After that, I stopped using that UPS and later called Cyberpower tech support.

They told me that the unit is designed to cut off the power to everything once the battery can no longer hold its charge....which to me, is absolutely ludicrous, because that causes a catastrophic failure which is just as bad as if I had no UPS at all!

In other words, this design fubar in the Cyberpower UPS causes the very problem to occur which I bought the UPS in order to permanently avoid in the first place!

I ended up buying a brand new battery for that UPS. After I installed it, the unit failed to function at all any more, other than to give me an error code that indicates a permanent hardware defect.

So all of that horrible experience led to me to realize that I need to switch off of using the Cyberpower brand, and to another brand that makes units which will not cut the power to the UPS and everything connected to it just because the battery can't hold its charge any more.

I considered switching to APC. I called their tech support and asked if their units do that. They told me that no, they do not.

However, then I ran into another problem: when I read reviews on Amazon for all the comparable UPS units from APC to what I previously used, they all have tons of user complaints, saying how their APC units either fried and/or exploded and/or melted and/or caused some fires.

So now I feel stuck between a rock and hard place: I don't know what product I can buy that both:

a) won't cause me the same problems I had with my Cyberpower unit and also

b) won't cause me the fire/explosion/melting/burning problems that APC units are known to have.

The Cyberpower unit I had was a CP1500PFC LCD.

Can any of you please recommend me another unit from a different company that has comparable features, and that meets the two criteria I just listed?

Or failing that, could you please point to me another forum where they have super hardcore expertise about electronics and hence would be able to advise me on these matters?

Thank you.

 

[bigboxes]

I've got two of those CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD units. Just replaced the batteries yesterday in both units. They are TEN years old and still going strong.

How long have you had your's? How long did you think they'd last? You need to replace the batteries every three years or so. I would say it's a good thing that a damaged UPS won't let you power it up.

If replacing the battery doesn't fix your problem, then you just need to buy another unit. It's electronics. They do crap out after a while. You could have had a number of (power) events over the years. It could have been one big one or it could have been an accumulation of many small ones. Either way, your UPS is toast and you need a new one. If it made it 3 years, then it lasted the warranty.

Like I said, mine are on their 10th year. YMMV. Lighten strikes and power surges can take out anything. Better your UPS than your connected peripherals. That's what their designed for.

 

[catboy]

If replacing the battery doesn't fix your problem, then you just need to buy another unit.

I see what you are saying.

But I don't want to buy another Cyberpower unit, because I don't agree with their awful design philosophy whereby they make their units to deliberately cut power to the UPS, and also all of the stuff that is connected to it, just because the battery can't hold its charge any more. That is extremely counter-productive, and defeats the whole purpose having a UPS. And I don't see any good reason whatsoever for why they do that.

But I also don't know of any safe alternatives from a different brand?

As for what took out my UPS: I'm 99.9% sure it was the design fubar itself that did that, whereby it made itself cut off its power for no reason just because the battery can't hold its charge any more, and the damage it took from the repeated instances of that happening about 5 or 6 more times when I re-started it that night (at the time, I didn't know that it had that design fubar as one of its 'features'...hence I didn't know that the problem would keep re-occurring if I re-started the UPS).

It lasted for about 3 years. Yes, it may have out-lasted its warranty. But that's a moot point given the fact that it could have seriously damaged my PC by cutting the power to my PC for no reason and with no warning...which ironically, made my PC be way less safe when connected to the Cyberpower UPS than it would have been if I had instead been using no UPS at all!

 

[sdifox]

It is not a bad design, it is better to know the battery won't hold charge anymore. That way you replace the batteries and it will work when you need it to work.

Maybe one of these?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DK45T68/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_ZWQS7XEPX2JKE09CWS6W?psc=1

 

[Pohemi]

I have a CyberPower myself at the moment, but one of the most reliable enduser UPS brands is APC. Check warranties on different brands or specific models, but read reviews about their RMA process as well when comparing brands.

 

[sdifox]

I have a CyberPower myself at the moment, but one of the most reliable enduser UPS brands is APC. Check warranties on different brands or specific models, but read reviews about their RMA process as well when comparing brands.

I prefer Tripp-Lite and Eaton coming from commercial side.




It's been more than a year and I still haven't moved my stuff into that rack lol.

That is a Eaton 9135 5.5kVA with 240VAC feed.

 

[bigboxes]

I've got a 1000VA APC unit that I'm not using. I remember having to replace the battery in that thing as well.

 

[sdifox]

I've got a 1000VA APC unit that I'm not using. I remember having to replace the battery in that thing as well.

Batteries are consumables. Doesn't matter if you put it in a car or in a ups.

 

[bigboxes]

Batteries are consumables. Doesn't matter if you put it in a car or in an ups.

Agreed.That's what I said in my first reply. They only hold a working charge for so long.

 

[catboy]

Batteries are consumables. Doesn't matter if you put it in a car or in an ups.

Yes, I understand perfectly well that all batteries will eventually lose their charge permanently and then need to be replaced with new ones. That is not what I'm complaining about or objecting to.

Rather, I'm objecting to the fact that the horribly-designed Cyberpower units inexplicably cut the power to everything, including your PC that is connected to it, for no reason, as soon as the battery is no longer able to hold its charge.

In other words, Cyberpower UPS proactively function to destroy your PC due to this horrible design flaw. They replicate exactly what would happen in a power outage if your PC is not connected to any UPS at all...except the Cyberpower units cause that to happen even while power is still available...hence connecting to a Cyberpower UPS is even worse than not connecting to any UPS at all.

It is not a bad design, it is better to know the battery won't hold charge anymore

I agree it's good to know when the battery won't hold charge any more; however, the means by which the Cyberpower products "lets you know" should not be by cutting the power to everything, and hence potentially destroying your whole PC for the sake of "letting you know" that you need to replace the battery.

I have a CyberPower myself at the moment, but one of the most reliable enduser UPS brands is APC. Check warranties on different brands or specific models, but read reviews about their RMA process as well when comparing brands.

What about all the many reviews that say APC units are burn-y and explode-y? I need to avoid using products that might burn or explode or anything like that, even if I could "RMA them" after that happens (presuming I'd be lucky enough to survive the fire/explosion).

I prefer Tripp-Lite and Eaton coming from commercial side.

But when I look at the websites for those companies, I can't seem to find any consumer-level models that are comparable, feature-wise, to the CP1500PFC LCD from Cyberpower (and my inability to find such a thing is one of the reasons why I made this thread).

In addition, I had already read several review of Tripp-Lite UPS prior to making the original post of this thread, and I noticed a very common complaint with them is that the UPS doesn't turn back on after a power failure until if/when you manually turn it back on. So if possible, I'd prefer to avoid having a design flaw like that in my new UPS.

At the moment, I am still totally in the dark as to what the answer to my questions in the OP is.

 

[sdifox]

Yes, I understand perfectly well that all batteries will eventually lose their charge permanently and then need to be replaced with new ones. That is not what I'm complaining about or objecting to.

Rather, I'm objecting to the fact that the horribly-designed Cyberpower units inexplicably cut the power to everything, including your PC that is connected to it, for no reason, as soon as the battery is no longer able to hold its charge.

In other words, Cyberpower UPS proactively function to destroy your PC due to this horrible design flaw. They replicate exactly what would happen in a power outage if your PC is not connected to any UPS at all...except the Cyberpower units cause that to happen even while power is still available...hence connecting to a Cyberpower UPS is even worse than not connecting to any UPS at all.



I agree it's good to know when the battery won't hold charge any more; however, the means by which the Cyberpower products "lets you know" should not be by cutting the power to everything, and hence potentially destroying your whole PC for the sake of "letting you know" that you need to replace the battery.




What about all the many reviews that say APC units are burn-y and explode-y? I need to avoid using products that might burn or explode or anything like that, even if I could "RMA them" after that happens (presuming I'd be lucky enough to survive the fire/explosion).



But when I look at the websites for those companies, I can't seem to find any consumer-level models that are comparable, feature-wise, to the CP1500PFC LCD from Cyberpower (and my inability to find such a thing is one of the reasons why I made this thread).

In addition, I had already read several review of Tripp-Lite UPS prior to making the original post of this thread, and I noticed a very common complaint with them is that the UPS doesn't turn back on after a power failure until if/when you manually turn it back on. So if possible, I'd prefer to avoid having a design flaw like that in my new UPS.

At the moment, I am still totally in the dark as to what the answer to my questions in the OP is.

Clearly you don't understand how a ups works. If the ups shuts down, how do you expect it to power your equipment? Also, the Tripp-Lite thing, if the battery is drained before power is restored, why would the ups turn itself on? My UPS cost more than your computer and guess what happens if I lose power and run down the battery? It turns off and does not turn itself back on when power comes back on. Main function of a UPS is to give you enough time to shutdown. Generally electrical equipment are not allowed to turn themselves on for safety reason.

I linked an Eaton 1500VA UPS.

 

[UsandThem]

if your PC is not connected to any UPS at all...except the Cyberpower units cause that to happen even while power is still available...hence connecting to a Cyberpower UPS is even worse than not connecting to any UPS at all.

No.........

 

[BoomerD]

I've had one of these for nearly 5 years:

SmartPro 1500va UPS System, Tower, 10 Outlets | Eaton

Provides reliable 1500VA/900W power protection for your desktop computer, network workstation, audio/video components or media center. Protects against surges, line noise, blackouts and brownouts.

www.tripplite.com

It's always worked just as advertised...no unexpected shut-offs...it's probably time to consider replacing the batteries, but supposedly it's a real PITA to do it with these units.(no room to work, very tight fit, etc.) so maybe I'll just "bite the bullet" and replace it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I've had good luck with APC, Ultra (I don't know if they still make them, it was a Tigerdirect brand) and Tripp Lite. I hear Eaton is good too but never used one myself. Only one that takes up a whole room and I did not do much with it.

Personally I prefer if a UPS actually beeps or does something to tell me the battery is dead instead of just shutting off, but this is something that you won't really know until it happens as it's not really advertised. So I don't think it matters what brand you go with unless you can find some actual reviews that talk about that. I've seen both, some that warn you ahead of time, and some that just flat out turn off.

I can confirm that the Tripp Lite inverter-charger I use for my servers does not turn off if the battery goes bad or is even disconnected completely. I don't know if their regular UPSes act the same way but it might be a good indication. My unit is a little more robust than typical UPSes though and I would not recommend it to any random person not familiar with caring for large battery banks.

Really if you want to avoid the risk of this happening again I would just make it a routine thing to change the battery every 3 years or so. The gel cells in those unfortunately do not tend to last very long. If you do swap it out before it's bad, the old one may still be of use for other applications like a backup power source for stuff that runs on 12v.

 

[sdifox]

I've had good luck with APC, Ultra (I don't know if they still make them, it was a Tigerdirect brand) and Tripp Lite. I hear Eaton is good too but never used one myself. Only one that takes up a whole room and I did not do much with it.

Personally I prefer if a UPS actually beeps or does something to tell me the battery is dead instead of just shutting off, but this is something that you won't really know until it happens as it's not really advertised. So I don't think it matters what brand you go with unless you can find some actual reviews that talk about that. I've seen both, some that warn you ahead of time, and some that just flat out turn off.

I can confirm that the Tripp Lite inverter-charger I use for my servers does not turn off if the battery goes bad or is even disconnected completely. I don't know if their regular UPSes act the same way but it might be a good indication. My unit is a little more robust than typical UPSes though and I would not recommend it to any random person not familiar with caring for large battery banks.

Really if you want to avoid the risk of this happening again I would just make it a routine thing to change the battery every 3 years or so. The gel cells in those unfortunately do not tend to last very long. If you do swap it out before it's bad, the old one may still be of use for other applications like a backup power source for stuff that runs on 12v.

most are still plain old lead acid, not AGM.

 

[sdifox]

I've had one of these for nearly 5 years:

SmartPro 1500va UPS System, Tower, 10 Outlets | Eaton

Provides reliable 1500VA/900W power protection for your desktop computer, network workstation, audio/video components or media center. Protects against surges, line noise, blackouts and brownouts.

www.tripplite.com

It's always worked just as advertised...no unexpected shut-offs...it's probably time to consider replacing the batteries, but supposedly it's a real PITA to do it with these units.(no room to work, very tight fit, etc.) so maybe I'll just "bite the bullet" and replace it.

he's talking when blackout last longer than the usp runtime and the ups shuts down. That is an impressive toroidal transformer.

looks pretty simple to replace

 

[Pohemi]

It's always worked just as advertised...no unexpected shut-offs...it's probably time to consider replacing the batteries, but supposedly it's a real PITA to do it with these units.(no room to work, very tight fit, etc.) so maybe I'll just "bite the bullet" and replace it.

I'm in the same boat...had mine now for more than 3-4 years and time to replace the cell or the entire unit.

 

[BoomerD]

he's talking when blackout last longer than the usp runtime and the ups shuts down. That is an impressive toroidal transformer.

looks pretty simple to replace

We often have 6-8-10 hour or more power outages when we have a big storm that takes out trees...that take out power lines. A few years ago, (before we moved here) the power was out for several days.
As soon as the power goes out, the UPS starts to beep...beep...beep...fortunately, it has a mute function. I can still watch TV via Dish for a short time before the batteries die...and everything shuts down.
When power comes back on, the UPS recharges just fine. Yes, at that point, I generally have to physically turn on devices...TV, Dish box, etc.

 

[bigboxes]

We often have 6-8-10 hour or more power outages when we have a big storm that takes out trees...that take out power lines. A few years ago, (before we moved here) the power was out for several days.
As soon as the power goes out, the UPS starts to beep...beep...beep...fortunately, it has a mute function. I can still watch TV via Dish for a short time before the batteries die...and everything shuts down.
When power comes back on, the UPS recharges just fine. Yes, at that point, I generally have to physically turn on devices...TV, Dish box, etc.

Good to see your posting, @BoomerD.

 

[catboy]

No.........

Not sure what you mean by "no." Had my PC not been connected to the Cyberpower unit, then my PC would not have had the power to it cut off because that UPS decided do so, even though it didn't need to, because it was programmed to do so for no good reason. And that disaster wouldn't have happened 5-6 times in a row before I realized what was going on (i.e. I figured out that the UPS unit was the culprit).

If, alternatively, my PC had been plugged into the wall outlet directly, instead of being plugged into the Cyberpower UPS, then my PC would have continued to receive power perfectly fine for that entire night, and it would have suffered zero abrupt shutdowns at all. So how is that not better than the first scenario?

Clearly you don't understand how a ups works. If the ups shuts down, how do you expect it to power your equipment?

I'm not sure how that comment is relevant to what I'm saying. The Cyberpower unit had no reason to shut down, because at the times when it did so, it was still receiving normal power from the wall perfectly fine. It did not shutdown due to a blackout or brownout or any other kind of power error.

How do I expect it to power my equipment: that would be for it not to have shut itself down with no warning, and for no good reason, whilst power was still readily available.

I don't get why no one seems to understand what I'm saying.

As for the Eaton 5S1500LCD: that unit sucks because it's not sinewave. It seems Eaton does not offer any low-range model that is sinewave, which is one of the reasons for my dilemma which I still don't know how to solve.

After reading more about UPS products since making the OP, it seems that Eaton is the most trusted brand among IT people, as far as I can tell. So I would want to buy from that Eaton brand if I could find a suitable unit that they offer.

I read about the Eaton 5SC1500 which does have sinewave, but it has a lot of complaints that the fan sounds like a jet engine, and it never turns off either. Some people have said it's best to replace the stock fan with a Noctua fan in order to solve that unit's noise problem. But they also said they had to change the pin outs in order for the Noctua replacement fan to work in that unit.

As a layman I have no idea how to change pin outs, and I'm not sure whether or not I'd have enough technical skills to replace the stock fan if I were to buy that Eaton 5SC1500 unit. If it requires cutting wires and/or soldering, then I don't know how to do that. But if it's easy, like say, if it just requires unscrewing the stock fan with a normal screwdriver, and then screwing in the new fan, and then plugging in the cable, without making any modifications to the wires first, then I could do that.

Does anyone know exactly what are all the steps I'd need to do in order to be able to replace the stock fan of the Eaton 5SC1500 with a Noctua fan? I searched for tutorials of how to do that on the internet, but I couldn't find any. It seems most of the people who did that are IT pros who just say they did it, but without offering any guidance as to how it is done, specifically.

As of now, I still feel stuck in this problem, since my choices seem to be:

1. Use no UPS and leave my PC vulnerable.

2. Go with Cyberpower still even though I hate that brand and they almost wrecked my PC already and any other units I buy from them will still have that same design defect in them too and hence they will probably wreck my PC in the future.

3. Go with APC and risk having melty/burney/explodey batteries (according to what many reviews say).

4. Go with Tripp-Lite and have a unit that needs to be manually re-started all the time (according to what many review says)...and also a lot of reviews say they weren't happy with Tripp-Lite performance.

5. Go with Eaton on their basic model and have dirty non-sinewave power.

6. Go with Eaton on their mid-range model and have an always-on, unbearably loud fan that I may not be able to replace.

Ideally, I'd like to buy a 1500VA UPS unit that doesn't have any of those problems tied to it. But there doesn't seem to be any on the market.

But maybe if someone can provide me with a detailed tutorial on how to modify the Eaton 5SC1500 by swapping out its stock fan, then that might be the best possible solution.

 

[Pohemi]

...As for the Eaton 5S1500LCD: that unit sucks because it's not sinewave...
...Go with Cyberpower still even though I hate that brand and they almost wrecked my PC already and any other units I buy from them will still have that same design defect in them too and hence they will probably wreck my PC in the future...
...Go with APC and risk having melty/burney/explodey batteries (according to what many reviews say)...
...Go with Tripp-Lite and have a unit that needs to be manually re-started all the time (according to what many review says)...and also a lot of reviews say they weren't happy with Tripp-Lite performance...
...Go with Eaton on their basic model and have dirty non-sinewave power...
...Go with Eaton on their mid-range model and have an always-on, unbearably loud fan that I may not be able to replace...
Ideally, I'd like to buy a 1500VA UPS unit that doesn't have any of those problems tied to it. But there doesn't seem to be any on the market.
But maybe if someone can provide me with a detailed tutorial on how to modify the Eaton 5SC1500 by swapping out its stock fan, then that might be the best possible solution.

This looks like a lot of whining about products not being good enough at their respective price points, or just about brands in general based solely on reviews (professional reviews or customer comments? I wasn't sure which you meant).
You don't need a video on THAT EXACT MODEL UPS to learn how to change the pin-out on an 80mm computer fan to be able to swap it. Youtube it.

I don't get why no one seems to understand what I'm saying.

The people who've replied understand perfectly well what you are saying, you just don't want to listen when they tell you that's how a UPS is supposed to operate, including if and when it's a faulty unit.

Whose fault was it that it happened half a dozen times before YOU pinned down the issue? You can't cry about it "failing 6 times!". It failed once, you failed to identify the problem 6 times.

 

[catboy]

Whose fault was it that it happened half a dozen times before YOU pinned down the issue? You can't cry about it "failing 6 times!". It failed once, you failed to identify the problem 6 times.

It's the UPS's fault. For:

a) shutting down for no reason even though it didn't need to and wall power was perfectly intact every time it did so
b) the UPS provided no warning whatsoever that it was about to shut down, or that it was the sole cause of the problem

Initially I assumed that the problem was either due to errors in my local power grid, or my PC's power supply. How was I supposed to know automatically that it wasn't those things, but rather, solely & exclusively the terrible Cyberpower UPS unit that was causing the problem? Was I supposed to have mystical skills of divination or something?

This looks like a lot of whining about products not being good enough at their respective price points,

An item not being good enough at a particular price point is not my complaint.

Rather, my complaint is that I cannot find a decent UPS unit at any price point.

For example, I'd gladly pay a higher price than the cost of the basic model of the Eaton 1500VA UPS for a variant of it that offered sinewave as a feature. Yet none of them do, so I cannot purchase any such item, since they simply don't exist on the market.

Likewise, I'd be very happy to pay a higher cost for a variant of the Eaton 5SC UPS5SC1500 that doesn't cheap-out out by coming with a lousy a stock fan, but rather comes pre-installed with a good Noctua fan instead. Yet again, I cannot buy such a thing, because it doesn't exist on the market.

Saying "youtube it" in regards to changing a pin-out on a fan cable...that seems like highly dangerous advice. These are serious electrical devices and I'm just a layman. If I start tinkering with pin-outs in a willy-nilly casual fashion, then I'm liable to start a fire as a result of such recklessness which would probably lead to me making a mistake or doing something wrong.

Not to mention the fact that I don't even know what the correct layout is that the pin-out needs to be altered to.

That is why I need some kind of formal and professional guidance on these matters.

 

[Pohemi]

It's the UPS's fault.
How was I supposed to know automatically that it wasn't those things, but rather, solely & exclusively the terrible Cyberpower UPS unit that was causing the problem? Was I supposed to have mystical skills of divination or something?

It's called troubleshooting, obviously too much to ask? /shrug

Saying "youtube it" in regards to changing a pin-out on a fan cable...that seems like highly dangerous advice.
Not to mention the fact that I don't even know what the correct layout is that the pin-out needs to be altered to.

You're not looking up instructions for building a nuke. It's a 4-pin PC fan. Give me a break, really.
This doesn't require a rocket surgeon.
You can't find the pin-out order for the fan/NAS? And...you actually bothered looking? /doubts

That is why I need some kind of formal and professional guidance on these matters.

No, you don't.

You are only demanding that you do, because you can't or won't research it yourself.
If you don't know how to do it, why wouldn't you trust an instructional youtube video? You assume they are all going to mislead you or have false info...have you ever heard of cross-referencing sources? Maybe you'll have to watch two or three vids.

These forums might be a better tech info source than random searches on youtube, but to wave it off like there's nothing useful to be found there is just ignorant. It's a great source if you can actually parse the info and know how to 'verifiy' it before assuming it's true or false.



Edit: as an afterthought..if "lots of IT people that you know" have recommended the Eaton units, why are you so hung up on the pure sine wave power? If it was that important, do you think "IT pros" would be highly recommending them?

It seems to me that you are looking for complaints to rationalize picking NOTHING.

 

[sdifox]

TRIPP LITE 1500VA 1000W Ups Smart LCD SMC1500 2U RM Pure Sine Wave AVR USB : Amazon.ca: Electronics

TRIPP LITE 1500VA 1000W Ups Smart LCD SMC1500 2U RM Pure Sine Wave AVR USB : Amazon.ca: Electronics

www.amazon.ca

I don't know why it is so hard for you to google.

 

[SamMaster]

Just as a note: I have used two different APC branded UPS devices. One is almost twenty years old and still working. No batteries melted or exploded.

A while ago, both me and my brother had our UPS during a storm outage. His (Energiser brand) stopped working, mine (the first APC still working) kept going no problem.