Need Help deciding on a socket 939 CPU

[anandtechrocks]

I have looked over a lot of topics that resembled mine, but I could not find a real consise answer to my problem.

Ok, I have the money for a 4000+ and a 3800+ but if I can get away with getting a 3500+ without sacraficing a lot of preformance in 3D applications I would definately prefer it. I shopped around a lot and it looks like I will be paying about $700 for the 4000+, $560 for the 3800+, and $270 for the 3500+ (winchester).

I am going with a K8T Pro-939 board because I already have an APG 6800 GT. I am not much of an overclocker, because I don't like to compromise my components, so I would probably use stock speeds for the majority of the time. Another reason I don't overclock is that my powersupply is only 380 watts and am not going to upgrade it.

I need to know what chip to get. It seems like many people shy away from the 3800+ and lean toward the 3500+, but in most test that I read the 3800+ is usually 7-15 fps faster.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[memories2002]

Get a 3000 or 3200 right now, and then get like a 4200-4400-whatever after 9-12 months.

 

[Duvie]

MOst ppl are looking at the sckt 939 3000+, 3200, and 3500+ mainly cause they are the 90nm part and not the 130nm part of the 3800+ and 4000+....

7-15fps isn't all that and the cost from the 3500+ to the 3800+ for that limited 200mhz more clock, same l2 cache is 300+ dollars...That could damn near buy a GT 6800 by itself...

The 3800+ , 4000+ and FX 55 are about the worst price/performance ratio AMD has.....I can buy 2 3500+ for the price of 1 3800+...translate waste of fing money.....

You dont oc, and that is fine...pay 600 dollars for something my 140 dollar 3000+ did at stock voltage up to 2.5ghz and beat s that 600 dollar beast....Not wise money spent...

 

[Vee]

Originally posted by: Duvie
You dont oc, and that is fine...pay 600 dollars for something my 140 dollar 3000+ did at stock voltage up to 2.5ghz and beat s that 600 dollar beast....Not wise money spent...

No, I agree that the money spent on the top few % performance on processors is not worth it.

However, you should realize that the rest of your comparisions are not valid. First of all, you spend a lot of money on periphel hardware to support your OC. Secondly, your criteria for a *working* CPU is nowhere close to what 3800+, 4000+ achieves.
Now. that's perfectly fine if you're happy with it. If your computing or your data is not important for you, and you only run benchmarks or play games, well OK. It might be a fun hobby. But a CPU that only achieves a couple of hours of P95, is a nonfunctional CPU.

 

[ts3433]

Do you have to spend lots of extra money simply to OC? Not necessarily. Winchesters do very well on stock cooling, and most good PSUs out there should be able to handle the overclock. As Zebo's tests indicate, fancy RAM isn't needed, either. Additionally, not all overclocked processors will fail P95 in just 2 hours--it's dependent on how good your chip is, but many overclocks are quite stable under P95 and other stress tests.

I'd get the 3200+, which won't be any performance hit that you'll notice, but if you're dead set on one of those three and really don't want to try overclocking at all, 3500+ it is.

 

[Zebo]

I would recommed the 3400 skt 754 for non overclcokers interested in agp. DO NOT believe the dual channel hype. Speed is more about latency, which A64 has in spades, than bandwidth.

-it's faster than the 3500, about the same as 3800 http://www.behardware.com/articles/531/page7.html
-It comes on rock solid server componet board like DFI Lan party 250GB, 939 boards OTOH take patenice
-It costs $220!!

I mean why spend the dough if you don't have to? Or how about getting a real nice monitor instead where you will see appreciable differences? Alternativly bank it or put the surplus to some other good use....

There is one negative.. looks like dual core's will not be supported by skt 754.. but so what? with the money saved, and when dual cores come out you will be able to buy a new processor and mobo with change left over.

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Vee

Originally posted by: Duvie
You dont oc, and that is fine...pay 600 dollars for something my 140 dollar 3000+ did at stock voltage up to 2.5ghz and beat s that 600 dollar beast....Not wise money spent...

No, I agree that the money spent on the top few % performance on processors is not worth it.

However, you should realize that the rest of your comparisions are not valid. First of all, you spend a lot of money on periphel hardware to support your OC. Secondly, your criteria for a *working* CPU is nowhere close to what 3800+, 4000+ achieves.
Now. that's perfectly fine if you're happy with it. If your computing or your data is not important for you, and you only run benchmarks or play games, well OK. It might be a fun hobby. But a CPU that only achieves a couple of hours of P95, is a nonfunctional CPU.

try 62 hours!! It is fully stable....I run FH majority of the time and CAD the rest of the time...Not a gaming machine. The vid card was to accerlerate CAD modeling fuctions period.....


My data is fine and for all the years I have been ocing I have never ever lost one single ounce of data. Never ever corrupted a window install....So I dont know what the hell you are talking about..

 

[Dough1397]

7 bills fora 4000+ why not go for the fx-55 you will get some mad bragging rights with it too

 

[Vee]

Originally posted by: Duvie
try 62 hours!!

Yes do. It was the right idea. However, it should run 2 years . Summer and winter.

It is fully stable

How do you propose to know that? Prime95?

My data is fine

How do you know that?

I knew when I posted it would spark something like this. The big reason I normally don't comment OC, is that I know it's pointless to spend time discussing this.

 

[Zebo]

How do you know that?

How do you know it's stable at stock speeds?

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: Vee

Originally posted by: Duvie
try 62 hours!!

Yes do. It was the right idea. However, it should run 2 years . Summer and winter.

It is fully stable

How do you propose to know that? Prime95?

My data is fine

How do you know that?

I knew when I posted it would spark something like this. The big reason I normally don't comment OC, is that I know it's pointless to spend time discussing this.

NO I did just finish 62 hours of prime testing...check the thread...

I will defintely be able to run this in winter and summer. My temps are great and my home is AC and my office downstairs is always coolest place in the house by default.


My data is fine cause I am a stickler to back stuff up!!! got a dvd burner and a l;arge backup drive. I am careful to use PCI locks and my hdds are very cool with fans blowing over them.....

i have seen more stock systems go bust around here then anything. The last component that died on me was my sons Athlon 2100+ (not oc'd)...last harddrive that died on me was 1998 a 2.1gb Quatum Harddrive.....never had a stick of memory die....knock on wood....

I actually bet my system now is more stable then alot of pppl here on the forums now. I buy quality PSU and ram, careful with my ocs and understand the potential pitfalls, extremely well cooled and well powered.....Our stock work machines that usually are not be used mor ethen 70% of them time break down more in 4-6 months then I have had in my computer days since 1994....

 

[Vee]

Originally posted by: Zebo

How do you know that?

How do you know it's stable at stock speeds?

Exactly. Figuring out if it works completely as it should, is not so easy.
But what I suppose you're hinting at, is at some point reasonable, "good enough". And I also believe Prime95 is a pretty good tool, as it's available. But I don't actually know that it's good enough (disclaimer).

There's also this to contemplate: True, CPU prices are not always just supply & demand, there's a strategic playing of the market too. But if the Winchester 3000+ really is a 3900+, couldn't and wouldn't AMD marketing then do something more creative and effective, than selling it as a 3000+?

What I reacted against, was Duvies comparision of a 1.8GHz CPU overclocked 47%, with a retail (overpriced) CPU. Clearly, even after his years of tinkering with this stuff, stable ambient AC environment, careful selection of PSU, MB, HS and RAM, he have insignificant margins left, if any. The demands and working criteria those two CPUs will cope with, are not similar.
Whether it's good enough, for Duvie, is beside the point.

*************

There are two interesting psychological phenomenons here. The amount of money people are prepared to pay for very few % additional performance, in the highend CPUs.
And the amount of time and effort, and relaxed safety, people are prepared to sacrifice for the same few % performance. OC may be fun, and a rewarding activity in that sense. However, I bet the excitement over an OC, is often closely tied to the retail price of a comparable CPU. IMO, it's much more a case of comparing costs of cpus, than objective actual performance.

(This concludes my comments on OC, for now. Head down in the foxhole. )

 

[Vee]

Originally posted by: Duvie
last harddrive that died on me was 1998 a 2.1gb Quatum Harddrive.....

(OT). Since stoneage, I mostly never had any problems with hds. However around 2000 things were pretty bad, with hds crumbling all over. Things been OK for about 2-3 years now, but I'm sort of holding my breath and tiptoeing around. I just hope hds have become better. I've also started to cool them (heatsink) and mount them vertically for better boundary layer airflow. I really hope that helps. Unfortunately, many of my cases are a bit old and doesn't allow too much flexibility, without some crafty helper for sheet metal work.

never had a stick of memory die....knock on wood....

Interesting. That's been my experience too. If the RAM works properly when you put it in, it seem to continue to work indefinitely.

..Our stock work machines that usually are not be used mor ethen 70% of them time break down more in 4-6 months...

That's unacceptable, and should be dealt with. Computers should always work. Stability may ultimately be a relative quality, but it shouldn't be noticable that it is. If it is, then it's not "stable", MO.

(OT question for you) Aside from components like hd and optical drives, I really don't have any hardware issues, since I went 100% Fortron. I have this one question for you though: One of my CPU's ~2 years old, have recently started to become warmer. (it always runs 100%). I've increased fan rpm to get temp back down. But I recently checked, and it's creeping up again. What's your take on this? Interface paste going through changes? (This one used AS, I otherwise normally use white silicon.)
Or is there such a thing as spontaneously dying CPUs? Never happened to me before, since 1978-79.