Need help cooling XP 2500+

[elbirth]

I just built my new computer and it's running an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton cpu, on an MSI K7N2-L (nforce2) motherboard. I didn't want to use the stock heatsink/fan that came with it, so I had gotten a Thermaltake Volcano 9 coolmod, as I had heard that this will sufficiently cool it (as long as it's not overclocked) and plus the leds look cool through the window in the side of the case.

Anyway, after I installed the OS and got it going, I noticed it's idling with a CPU temperature of 52-55 C and a system temp of 33-34 C. I think the system temp is fine, but the CPU's temp is entirely too high for just idling.... the CPU fan is running at 5113RPMs.

For overall cooling I've got (as I mentioned) the Volcano 9 sitting on top with Arctic Silver 3 holding it on with a copper shim on there (should I take the shim off and reapply the thermal grease?). For the case I've got the Chieftec X-Pider case with 2 rear exhausts , 1 side intake and 1 front intake (soon will have another front intake in the harddrive cage).

Anyone got any help for me? I need to cool this thing down before I get gaming on it....

 

[CoBRaXT]

A system temp of 33-34C is about 91-94F which is a little on the high side. What is your room temp?
The system temp should only be a few degrees C warmer than the ambient temp.

I would remove the copper shim (I've read that some people have bad experiences with them) and find some way
to lower the system temp at least 5c which would help in cooling the CPU down also.

David

 

[elbirth]

I'm not sure of the exact room temperature, but I have a window AC running, as well as a ceiling fan, and I can feel goose bumps come up on me every once in a while, because it's really cool in here... I don't think the room temperature is the deal.... and the computer case is sitting on top of my desk right now with nothing hindering airflow.

I think I might take off that shim though...

 

[Chrisdragon]

You should use some AS3 with the V9, it should cool enough around or slightly more than me, I have an Athlon XP 2100+ w/ tbred b core, and the volcano 9. It runs around 39-41 C on idle. The barton should run around 43-45 C (just a guess)

 

[paco83]

My overclocked 2800+ runs around 52 load, with system temps of ~33 and room temp of aorund 80-85

 

[elbirth]

Hmm, then 52-55C idle for a non-overclocked 2500+ is entirely too high....
Since it's so late, I'm not going to mess with it tonight... I'm gonna just shut it down and take off the shim tomorrow morning sometime and clean the heatsink and CPU and reapply the Arctic Silver 3.....

Thanks for all the input thus far

 

[elbirth]

One other quick question... isn't the 2500+'s clock speed supposed to be 1.83ghz? Because mine is running at 1.46ghz according to the System Properties... but it also says it's an unknown CPU Type....

 

[BG4533]

First, remove the shim and see what your temperatures are.

Second, I am thinking this board reads its temperatures from the diode on the CPU rather than a diode on the mobo. This would make the temperatures appear hotter that a board that reads from the mobo. I am not completely sure if this board is this way though.

Third, do temperatures from your bios correspond to temperatures taken from MBM5 or anything else?

Brian

 

[Bookie]

the first thing you need to do is get the latest bios for your motherboard. It looks as if your bios doesn't properly support that chip (yet). I have an MSI also and have had to upgrade the bios with each chip upgrade I've done.

For comparison, I currently have an athlon xp 2400+ with the SLK-800 and the vantec stealth which runs at only 2050rpm (27CFM, 21dBA). My temps are 43C at idle 48C highest load. My case temp is only 30C.

 

[elbirth]

Ok, I removed the shim just now and cleaned the stuff off and reapplied the AS3... still the same temp, even immediately on bootup... since it's immediately I'm thinking Bookie might be right about needing to update my BIOS... also I just noticed that on bootup it says "Unknown CPU Type 1700+... but I have a 2500+.... this could also be the case of it misreading the processor speed I hope.

Also, the temp in the BIOS is the same as the one I find in PCAlert3 (which came on the motherboard drivers CD that I installed). I'm gonna go find the latest BIOS update and install that, then report back....

 

[CraigRT]

the MSI board probably reads high
I have my doubts the case temp is actually that high unless they designed the board in such a way where the temp readout is near the CPU.. (dumb)

 

[BG4533]

Originally posted by: elbirth
Ok, I removed the shim just now and cleaned the stuff off and reapplied the AS3... still the same temp, even immediately on bootup... since it's immediately I'm thinking Bookie might be right about needing to update my BIOS... also I just noticed that on bootup it says "Unknown CPU Type 1700+... but I have a 2500+.... this could also be the case of it misreading the processor speed I hope.

Also, the temp in the BIOS is the same as the one I find in PCAlert3 (which came on the motherboard drivers CD that I installed). I'm gonna go find the latest BIOS update and install that, then report back....

About the processor being reported as a 1700+, do you possibly have the FSB set to 133 instead of 166? That would probably make the processor run at 1700 speeds and be reported as a 1700.

Brian

 

[elbirth]

Finally got the BIOS flashed...
Anyway, the newest BIOS update corrected the temperature reading... now it reads my CPU temp at 37C and the system temp at 39C, which is much better than almost 60C....

As for the CPU itself..... BG4533, you were right... I never looked in the BIOS at the FSB settings (I foolishly assumed it would automatically select whatever was present). It was at 100mhz, so I switched it to 166 and now it's running at 1.83ghz. Thanks alot! However, it still says that it's an unknown CPU Type... I noticed in a few of the BIOS updates for a similar motherboard that they had added the recognition support for the Barton 2600+, etc... maybe they haven't done this with the 2500+ on this board?

In any regard, other than it not saying it's an AMD, etc., the temperatures are under control and things seem to be running fine. Thanks a LOT for all the useful info!

 

[Bookie]

one more suggestion for you. MSI has pcalert4 now on their website. Try downloading that and see if it does any better. I never used 3 so I'm not sure what the differences are.

 

[CoBRaXT]

Originally posted by: elbirth
Anyway, the newest BIOS update corrected the temperature reading... now it reads my CPU temp at 37C and the system temp at 39C, which is much better than almost 60C....

lol i guess you meant it the other way around?

 

[elbirth]

Originally posted by: CoBRaXT

Originally posted by: elbirth
Anyway, the newest BIOS update corrected the temperature reading... now it reads my CPU temp at 37C and the system temp at 39C, which is much better than almost 60C....

lol i guess you meant it the other way around?

? What do you mean I must mean the other way around? Currently, my CPU temp is 35C and the System Temp is 33C... that's correct according to PC Alert 4...

If you mean did I have my 2 temps (CPU and System) switched, I don't think so.... though I could have made the mistake...

 

[BG4533]

If you think about it, it is impossible for your CPU to be lower than your case with air cooling. The case temperature is the temperature of the air in your case. This air is blowing on the HS where it is being warmed up, not cooled down.

Brian

 

[EeyoreX]

Anyway, the newest BIOS update corrected the temperature reading... now it reads my CPU temp at 37C and the system temp at 39C, which is much better than almost 60C...

The BIOS flash doesn't really correct the reading. As someone already mention the nForce2 boards in general (i think) but specifically from MSI read a little high. And, as someone mentioned the K7N2 boards read from the CPU diode instead of the motherboards. All the BIOs essentially did was have the board read the cpu diode and then drop the temp ~10C because lots of people were calling MSI to complain about a failing board. The temps reported now are lower than "actual".

\Dan

 

[elbirth]

Hmm..... well if that's the case, then is there anyway to get an actual reading of what the temperatures really are?

 

[mechBgon]

Motherboards are calibrated all over the map, and their readings may change with a BIOS update if the mobo manufactuer sees too many people freaking out at the temp reading. To be honest with you, the 55C reading is quite realistic, and AMD specs your CPU for a maximum core temperature of over 80C (!) so it's not as if 55C is necessarily cause for alarm (if it's a true core reading).

As for your new BIOS and new temperature readings, either MSI is candy-coating the reading to make the customers happy, or the new BIOS has S2K Bus Disconnect included + enabled, which will make Bartons go sleepy-bye when they have nothing on their agenda. Put a full load on the CPU with Prime95 or another stressful program and see if the temp hits the 50C+ area again. If so, that's S2K at work.

Lastly, CPU temperatures can jump extremely fast, so don't expect it to take like 30 seconds for your CPU to ramp up to temperature when you start the system and go into the BIOS. With ~50W of heat being generated by an object with a mass of perhaps 5 grams, it doesn't take long for the CPU to reach nearly its cruising temperature and begin bringing the heatsink up to steady-state temps. If the readings do ramp slowly, then you're not getting a reading from the CPU core, it's from an external sensor instead.

 

[elbirth]

I found the forums on MSI's website and went scouring through them to attempt to get a definite answer regarding this from other consumers, since the only way I see to contact MSI is by calling...

Anyway, from what most people are saying, MSI is trying to implement a new form of reading CPU temps... meaning they're reading the temps directly off the CPU die, rather than a sensor located on the motherboard itself. This, in turn gives you a more accurate reading of the actual temperature of the CPU, as it's directly from it and not just from the heat produced directly nearby on a sensor. However, because this makes you see a higher temperature, people (like myself) get worried about such high temperatures, when in actuality these are fairly normal for these CPUs. Since they've had so many complaints about high temperatures they've released a BIOS update that underreads the temperatures to satisfy most everyday people and keep them quiet while they try and get this new way of reading out in the market.

I feel a bit better about the fact that my CPU shouldn't be really any hotter than normal, but at the same time I worry a bit because I'm not getting a real reading... I understand that they're still working on things and hopefully a new release will be out that gives the real readings.

 

[mechBgon]

When EPoX released the first production board that gave true from-the-core temperature readings, people freaked out and began RMA'ing them like crazy, thinking that it was defective, because the readings were higher than they expected. EPoX learned their lesson and stopped giving true from-the-core readings, and I suspect we will never see that become the norm simply because no manufacturer wants to be put through that experience.

If you really want to find out where your reading comes from, there is an empirical method for determining it. Read my adventure with my Asus A7V333-RAID here and see if you have the guts to hold an icepack to the underside of your mobo in the quest for Truth