Need help choosing a camera for teaching photography

[montanafan]

The high school has decided to give me $400 to buy a camera to use in teaching photography to the kids. I'd like to get an SLR to teach them as much as possible, but that's out of the price range, so I'm trying to find something as close to the flexibility of an SLR as I can get.

Right now I'm considering the Canon PowerShot S3 IS. The features I like are the relatively high ISO 800 capability, max aperture of 2.7-3.5, Image Stabilization, and optional lens capabilities. The main thing I don't like is that it doesn't have a hotshoe for an external flash, does anyone know if an external flash can be used with it via a grip and sync cord?

If anyone has this camera or has had first hand experience with it, I'd appreciate any info you could give me about it. If you have suggestions for alternative cameras with good features I'd really like to hear about those as well.

 

[Ika]

I have the S3. Nice camera, lots of features, but it's still not an SLR (even though it wants to be, those SLR meanies won't let them into their club! :sadface. I'm quite satisfied with it for pictures, but I haven't been able to take that many good-looking shots yet. I'm not sure if this is exclusive to me, but when I take a picture, it usually looks really good through the camera LCD, but on the computer, it looks pretty junky. Obviously, this is a resolution problem, but I wish I could take perfect photos without doing much post-processing (doesn't everyone?)

oops... digression.

Anyway, S3 is a great SLR-wannabe. However, there are probably better choices, such as Panasonic's FZ7 or FZ30. I'm kinda behind on cameras, though, so I'm not sure if there are better cameras for the same price.

On the other hand, $400 might just be enough to get an entry-level DSLR (old ones, more specifically), but you probably won't have much money left over for good lenses.

 

[91TTZ]

Why don't you buy them used Digital Rebels (the original ones)? I'm sure you can get them for $400, it's a real SLR, you don't have to worry about them breaking expensive new cameras, and any lenses you buy will work on newer camera bodies, should you choose to upgrade someday.

 

[SZLiao214]

I suggest the canon s2 so you have money left over to by filters

From what i read the difference between the s2 and the s3 are pretty minimal.

 

[FilmCamera]

I wouldn't do it unless they gave me enough for proper equipment.

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: Aflac
I have the S3. Nice camera, lots of features, but it's still not an SLR (even though it wants to be, those SLR meanies won't let them into their club! :sadface. I'm quite satisfied with it for pictures, but I haven't been able to take that many good-looking shots yet. I'm not sure if this is exclusive to me, but when I take a picture, it usually looks really good through the camera LCD, but on the computer, it looks pretty junky. Obviously, this is a resolution problem, but I wish I could take perfect photos without doing much post-processing (doesn't everyone?)

oops... digression.

Anyway, S3 is a great SLR-wannabe. However, there are probably better choices, such as Panasonic's FZ7 or FZ30. I'm kinda behind on cameras, though, so I'm not sure if there are better cameras for the same price.

On the other hand, $400 might just be enough to get an entry-level DSLR (old ones, more specifically), but you probably won't have much money left over for good lenses.

Thanks for the information, Aflac. Have you tried taking any indoor sports photos with your camera? One of the other things that sounded good about the S3 was the comment on dpreview that it would be good for that and the kids would be using the camera to take photos of indoor sports like basketball and volleyball. As for the post-processing, I just bought PhotoShop 5.0 to use to teach them PP, so hopefully that would help with this particular camera.

I'll look into the Panasonic cameras you suggested as well. Thanks again.

 

[phoenix79]

For teaching photography, I'd go with a film camera. That way you can teach them film processing and the basics. Contrary to popular belief, film is not dead and can be every bit as rewarding as digital. Just my $0.02

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Why don't you buy them used Digital Rebels (the original ones)? I'm sure you can get them for $400, it's a real SLR, you don't have to worry about them breaking expensive new cameras, and any lenses you buy will work on newer camera bodies, should you choose to upgrade someday.

Yep, I originally thought that would be a good idea as well since I own the Digital Rebel and lots of lenses and accessories for it, but because of ridiculous purchasing rules for the school, I can't buy a used camera. It has to be new with the full warranty etc. It was a good idea though, thanks.

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: SZLiao214
I suggest the canon s2 so you have money left over to by filters

From what i read the difference between the s2 and the s3 are pretty minimal.

That might be a good alternative, I'll look into it. I was going to use the full $400 for the camera and then use money they raised from selling photo CDs to other students to buy accessories, but if there's not much difference in the S2 and S3 that could be a good idea. Thanks, SZLiao.

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: FilmCamera
I wouldn't do it unless they gave me enough for proper equipment.

Good point, but I'm hoping this is just the start to better things. This is the first year for this principal and he's the first to offer any money for the program, so hopefully if I can get it started he'll be willing to pitch in more next year.

 

[FilmCamera]

Originally posted by: phoenix79
For teaching photography, I'd go with a film camera. That way you can teach them film processing and the basics. Contrary to popular belief, film is not dead and can be every bit as rewarding as digital. Just my $0.02

But they won't have a darkroom I'm sure. And then you have to add in the costs of the film and the developing, which will add up to quite a bit if they do a lot of shooting.

You may see if you can talk with the parents of kids that are very interested and see if they might be willing to contribute something. Couldn't hurt.

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: phoenix79
For teaching photography, I'd go with a film camera. That way you can teach them film processing and the basics. Contrary to popular belief, film is not dead and can be every bit as rewarding as digital. Just my $0.02

I agree that film is not dead. I think that film photography is still superior to digital in many ways, but the expense is prohibitive. I have little hope that I could get the money from the school or through fundraising to be able to afford darkroom equipment. It would be great if we could though. With digital, we can get the biggest expense out of the way with the money offered right now and hopefully show results that will result in more investment in the program later.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: montanafan
Yep, I originally thought that would be a good idea as well since I own the Digital Rebel and lots of lenses and accessories for it, but because of ridiculous purchasing rules for the school, I can't buy a used camera. It has to be new with the full warranty etc. It was a good idea though, thanks.

elan 7ne is $339.95 at b&h

rebel k2 with lens is under $200

nikon fm10 is $250

vivitar 3800N with 50 f/1.7 is $140, uses pentax k mount.

you're not going to teach photography if you can't get the kids to slow down and think about light and composition. it'll be easier to do that with the fm10 and the 3800N.

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: FilmCamera

Originally posted by: phoenix79
For teaching photography, I'd go with a film camera. That way you can teach them film processing and the basics. Contrary to popular belief, film is not dead and can be every bit as rewarding as digital. Just my $0.02

But they won't have a darkroom I'm sure. And then you have to add in the costs of the film and the developing, which will add up to quite a bit if they do a lot of shooting.

You may see if you can talk with the parents of kids that are very interested and see if they might be willing to contribute something. Couldn't hurt.

Yes, you're correct (see my post above.) Getting the parents involved is a possiblity because some of them have asked me to teach photography classes for adults, but the way the program is set up right now I have one group of students for a semester and then another group the next semester with the first group having the option to return the first semester of the next year and so on. So this year I'm at a disadvantage because I have these kids for such a short amount of time, but before the first group returns to continue the class next year might be the right time to bring that up. This is all just starting so I guess I'll have to figure these things out as I go.

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: montanafan
Yep, I originally thought that would be a good idea as well since I own the Digital Rebel and lots of lenses and accessories for it, but because of ridiculous purchasing rules for the school, I can't buy a used camera. It has to be new with the full warranty etc. It was a good idea though, thanks.

elan 7ne is $339.95 at b&h

rebel k2 with lens is under $200

nikon fm10 is $250

vivitar 3800N with 50 f/1.7 is $140, uses pentax k mount.

you're not going to teach photography if you can't get the kids to slow down and think about light and composition. it'll be easier to do that with the fm10 and the 3800N.

ElFenix, you're right that those would be great cameras for teaching photography, but I'm afraid that with all the shooting these kids would be doing (18-20 kids in each class and two classes a year) that after purchasing the camera we just wouldn't be able to afford the film and processing costs, much less the equipment for a darkroom to teach them how to do it themselves.

 

[Ika]

Are you allowed to buy a refurb camera? Beach Camera has a Nikon D50 body for $379 and a Pentax K110D body for $389, but they don't include lenses. I'm sure a cheap kit lens won't be too expensive, though.

 

[Kelvrick]

What about the Canon G series, G6 and G7 and such.

 

[Anubis]

look on KEH im sure you can find an old Nikon FM for like 50$

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I would have to say go for a cheap DSLR, like the old Rebel or K100D at a good price or something. If the school only gives you $400 and the equipment is $500, maybe fork over $100 yourself?

I learned on a super zoom P&S like the S2, and frankly, I learned more shooting with my XT in half a year than I did shooting with the superzoom in 2 years.

P&S cameras are not good substitutes for learning about SLRs.

1. Shallow DOF is not as pronounced
2. Apertures usually only go from f/2.8 to f/8
3. ISO range is very limited
4. It is not the same design as a Single Lens Reflex camera
5. They don't use SLR lenses. The "mm" rating will be strange.

It's tough with the budget though. $400 might get you a body, but you won't have any lenses. The S2 or S3 will get you a nice telephoto lens, a normal lens, and macro capabilities all in one. Still, I've NEVER heard of a photography class being taught with a P&S.

 

[tfinch2]

Olympus E-300

http://cgi.ebay.com/Olympus-Evolt-E-300...06QQcategoryZ43457QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: Aflac
Are you allowed to buy a refurb camera? Beach Camera has a Nikon D50 body for $379 and a Pentax K110D body for $389, but they don't include lenses. I'm sure a cheap kit lens won't be too expensive, though.

Aflac, I'm not sure if we can buy a reburbished camera or not, I'll have to ask. I'd think it would be okay as long as it came with a warranty, though I realize it may not be as long as the one for a new camera. I'll look into that. I don't know anything about the Pentax K110D, but I do know that the Nikon 50D is a nice camera. It's looking like most of these cameras that are great for what we need are just a little bit out of our price range right now. Thanks again.

 

[montanafan]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
What about the Canon G series, G6 and G7 and such.

Kelvrick, I just took a quick look at them and the ones I saw were just a little more than we can afford right now, even the G6 was over $400. Maybe if I look a little more I can find something. Thanks.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: montanafan

Originally posted by: Aflac
Are you allowed to buy a refurb camera? Beach Camera has a Nikon D50 body for $379 and a Pentax K110D body for $389, but they don't include lenses. I'm sure a cheap kit lens won't be too expensive, though.

Aflac, I'm not sure if we can buy a reburbished camera or not, I'll have to ask. I'd think it would be okay as long as it came with a warranty, though I realize it may not be as long as the one for a new camera. I'll look into that. I don't know anything about the Pentax K110D, but I do know that the Nikon 50D is a nice camera. It's looking like most of these cameras that are great for what we need are just a little bit out of our price range right now. Thanks again.

AnandTech on the K110D

The thing is, he says you can get a new K110D with a kit lens for $400 after rebate... that sounds much better if you could hunt for it.

 

[todpod]

Beach camera has a Pentax K110d 339 after $50 dollar rebate + Free Shipping. This will accept any K-mount lens.
linky for camera

Here is a new lens for Cameta Camera 28-80 zoom New for $29.95 + $12.95 s&h

Lens linky

 

[todpod]

Btw its there ebay store for Cameta, but that is the buy it now price