Need help building storage server.

[leglez]

My boss is remodeling a new building for our audio/video studio. We are going to have 8 Mac G5s that will stay at the studio, and 4-5 Powerbook G4's that will go with employees home to work on projects. We are interested in setting up a storage server for storing projects and possibly applications (if that is possible with macs). I have built a few PCs before so thats not a problem, I just need help picking out the parts. I don't really have a CPU preference. For HDDs I would prefer to use SATA Seagate hdds because of the warranty. I just need the tower, and a UPS i believe. I don't need a monitor, keyboard, or mouse. I plan on running Linux but not sure what distro. I searched around but couldn't find anything. The budget is $1500. We are wanting at least ~5TBs to start, but with upgradabilty. I think the computer should be able to be built for less than $200-$300 and the rest should be spent on the HDDs and the UPS.

I also plan on doing RAID, I am not sure which yet, so if someone could tell me which is the most reliable is.

Please let me know what the cheapest, but most reliable way to build this would be. Thank you!


Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 $69.99
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ 2.1GHz $59.99
RAM: G. Skill 1GB $24.99
PSU: OCZ GameXstream 700W $129.99
Case: <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811182566&Tpk=N82E16811182566
<b"><b">">CODEGEN 4U-500-CA </a> $70.99
Storage Controller: Areca ARC-1220 $460.00
OS HDD: Seagate 80GB $43.99
Storage HDDs: Seagate 750GB * 4 $739.96
OS: ???

Total: $1,664.89

Questions:

• 
  What OS should we use? I am assuming Linux but what distro? It needs to be able to be accessed by Macs.

• Where should I get a rack from? I was looking around today and decided I want just about everything for the network to go into a rack. I have no clue about racks or rackmounts or whatever they are called so need some help. I checked newegg and they around $1,000+, I can do that, but I don't really think I should pay $100 in shipping if I can pick one up locally.

• What should I use for backing up the server? It needs to be backed up at least once a week. I would prefer if the materials are reusable too. So we only need to hang onto no more then 2 backups at a time. It also should be able to backup by itself on a set date weekly. So like Saturday at 3 A.M.

• How does the build look overall?

• What is the best RAID to use with the least chance of losing data?

• What UPS should I use?

 

[MegaVovaN]

Full tower case.

RAID...might want a dedicated RAID controller card which would be easily ~$200.....

 

[leglez]

Ok well thats fine, what should I go with as far as CPU, Mobo, PSU, UPS, Raid Controller, etc..

 

[Madwand1]

Understand that "RAID alone is not a backup", and start with the budget and plans including provisions for regular backups.

Areca makes nice storage controllers. PCIe should generally be used these days. ECC RAM is a good idea for servers. A name-brand server with support and warranty has CYA-compatibility.

 

[leglez]

How much do name-brand servers cost? I looked around at dell and I think HP and the servers cost quite a bit more once the storage was counted in. Thats why I was just planning on building it. And I understand RAID shouldn't be my only failure protection. But what do most people use for backups now? We don't really want to do DVDs, each project is usually 10GBs when finished, and we don't want to have 2 dvds for each client. Are SSDs pretty reliable?

 

[leglez]

reposted in first post

 

[MegaVovaN]

SSDs are NOT reliable in server environment AND are ultra expensive to boot. SSDs are worse than floppies.

 

[leglez]

Oh ok well thanks then. What should be used for backups? Tape drives? DVDs? I don't know much about tape drives so I am not really sure.

 

[MegaVovaN]

As far as I know, tape drives and HDDs.

Data on HDDs.
Tape drives for routine backup of everything on HDDs that you hope you won't have to read. Tapes can hold giant amount of data but they aren't designed to be read frequently like HDDs. Tapes are "write and place on shelf".

DVDs? Compared to hard drives they aren't very reliable.

edit: $230 case and $100 raptor for boot drive?!?
Get a cheaper case, we're not on contest here.

And why raptor for boot? Like you need it to boot in 1 minute instead of 3 min with any other HDD? If money is concern get a cheaper drive.


You're getting $50 mobo and $50 CPU yet $230 case/$100 boot drive?? I would rather put faster hardware in fugly case with slow boot drive.

 

[leglez]

The reasoning for the $230 case was because it has 10 spots for hdds. Is there something cheaper that can hold that many? Or what should I do with that? I don't care about the looks because its going to be in a closet the whole time anyways. And I can get rid of the raptor, I thought it would be important but I was thinking differently, the server won't be shutdown very often so there is no need for it to boot quickly.

 

[leglez]

Bump, found a similar build that someone was doing, it was about a year old though so I changed some stuff around.

 

[MegaVovaN]

Looks better now with 3x cheaper case and 2x cheaper hdd.

Rackmounts are whole new level...can't say much about them since I never actually worked with these.

If you don't get satisfactory answers here, talk to admins of other companies and ask what they do, maybe ask to go on tour. Sounds like you don't have much "architecture" in place - it would be a good time to plan how you will grow in future, so that your computer room does not turn in haphazard mountain of mixed hardware and cables.

 

[leglez]

Ok thanks I will call around to a few places tomorrow and see.

And yeah we just purchased a new building. It is a 3 level 6,000 SQ ft building, and we are completely gutting it with hopes to have it finished by August. And so yeah there is no network architecture setup. We are running network, phone, and cable lines to just about every room with more than needed just to try to somewhat future-proof it. And we are also trying to layout a pipe system so that when the time comes and we need to add on we can run new lines without have to tear walls down. Thats another reason we decided to do rackmounts so that we have expandabilty with more room.

Also one question about the rackmount case, will that motherboard fit in it? I have never used rackmount anything before so I am clueless.

 

[skyking]

In a datacenter, rack space = big bucks. They build carefully designed 1u and 2u servers with angled rams slots, half height cards or card risers. They are also noisy as all get out, trying to push cooling through those tight cases.
For the small business you are describing, you won't be needing a huge rack farm of equipment.
This means you can use 4u rackmount cases.
4u ATX is the same physically as a standard case, and supports full height cards.

 

[aigomorla]

work with mission critical data = Enterprise Class

Dont buy desktop class or even gaming class. The stress an enterprise class server can handle is 5x greater then any desktop home end user brand

Go with a SuperMicro or Tyan LGA771 board. These boards are expensive but definitely worth the money.

Then go with Xeon dualcore or even quadcore if your going to run SQL on it some time in the future or run a DB software

I would use at least RAID5 on your system for redudancy. OR even better would be RAID1 where your mirroring a drive.



Thats my 2 cents. And i have worked with both enterprise and desktop. Enterprise you cant overclock, but you dont overclock a mission critcal server.

 

[leglez]

Well the spot that the server is going is in a 15' x 15' closet with a big exhaust fan leading straight outside, so noise isn't a problem. We make low budget films for weddings, partys, and many other things, and we also make advertisements for business's, do photography, and music production. So the material is important and will be taking up quite a bit of space. We save everything (sure it isn't effecient, but if they ever want more copies or something changed it makes it a lot easier). Most of the stuff will be stored and then put away and probably won't touch it again for a year or so. We need 2-3 TBs of onhand storage that will be used daily for different projects. We also expect to upgrade that in a few months with another server. That is the main reason I planned on the rack, for clean expandabilty, rather than just having computer towers and routers and switches just sitting around in the storage room. The way your making it sound is that no one makes 4u racks. Is this true? If it is price then that is fine, we don't mind paying more for clean. Like I said I looked around on newegg and it looked like they were going for ~$1,000-$2,000 which is fine.

Also Aigomoria, it isn't really "mission criticial data," it is important, but if we lose it it isn't a life or death situation. It just means lost time. We aren't running any SQL software or any DB software and don't plan to so that isn't really necessary. If we do end up doing SQL or DB software then we can upgrade then, no reason to put money into something we will never use. And so RAID1 will be the best?

And yeah overclocking won't matter anyways, we won't be overclocking anything.

Still trying to figure out a UPS to use, and what OS.

 

[bob4432]

personally i would tell your boss $1500 isn't going to cover it, order a dell to take care of your needs and not be personally responsible for it if/when it crashes and all the data that the company you work for is gone.

and, i am not trying to sound like a dick, but if you are asking these questions, you probably shouldn't be doing it...again, this comment is made to help not shit on you.

w/ the rig you have posted, i wold use that in my home for a home htpc, not a mission critical piece of hardware for a company

 

[leglez]

Ok well thanks for the suggestions! Is it possible to install your own hdds in a dell server? And also will dell servers work with macs?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: leglez
Ok well thanks for the suggestions! Is it possible to install your own hdds in a dell server? And also will dell servers work with macs?

almost definitely.

I was going to recomend a dell server as well, however seeing how you say you dont require the server to do anything besides share files, why not just drop in Hotswap RAID NAS storage units with gb enet?

The units have enet, so you can share files on network. Also there mostly hotswap, so you can swap drives out for storage. Most of them are about the size of small towers. And nicer units, around 400-500 dollar ones offer RAID protection.



Im sorry OP i should of asked for more info when you said server. Your looking for a full blown NAS to share files and not do much work besides hand out files. A network attached storage unit might be a better route.

 

[leglez]

Oh ok well that sounds good to me then. Is there a very high chance of losing data through a NAS?

 

[RebateMonger]

Creating a place to store files is relatively easy. Making backups of terabytes of data is tougher. You can't put all of that data on a single hard drive or tape. That means multiple hard drives (maximum is 1TB per drive right now) or a tape changer (big bucks). You'd probably want an LTO-3 tape changer if you go with tapes.

 

[leglez]

I have looked around and there are tons of options for NAS's out there. Can anyone reccommend one or a brand or something? Also I just discovered at our meeting last night that we have decided to use windows PC's for a few of the employees and so Windows and Mac will need to be able to access the files.

 

[leglez]

Bump

 

[MegaVovaN]

I don't think there are many network admins here...maybe it's time to search for network admin's forum?

 

[JackMDS]

Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
I don't think there are many network admins here...maybe it's time to search for network admin's forum?

Personally I am a little amused when I see posts that take the Hardware/Gamer approach to serious Networking issues.

There is a certain level of knowledge that is needed for professional work and if it seems that this level is Not there is No point to resolve it over public forums.

A mistake in professional Project can cost a business big lose and a person can end up losing it Job.

I left this thread running here because I know that otherwise it probably would end up with a suggestion to look for a consultant that knows this type of business.

In addition Rebate Monger and Madwand1 (both posted above) are very knowledgeable about these issues.

That said i would leave this here unless the OP asks for the move it to the network Forum.