Need HD

[Heinrich]

I have a nice shiny BFG 6800 Ultra OC sitting here unopened in a box. Why unopened? Since I've ordered it I've come to realize I will be going PCI-E by the end of the year. This AGP PC is going to become an HTPC.

It seems as though this card will support Svideo but not HD quality even with an Svideo to composite adaptor. Some 6800 cards come with composite cables but I'm unable to determine if this means just connectivity or an actual HD type signal.

The reference card does mention say "? DVD and HDTV-ready MPEG-2 decoding up to 1920x1080i resolutions"

so I'm very confused. It looks like I should have bought a Sapphire x800 Pro ViVo with this thing and soft-modded it.

I've been reading up on the HD Wonder and an unclear if I could play games on this 6800 Ultra through an HD Wonder on my HD capable TV?

 

[Heinrich]

OK I found this ah heck

http://www.copperbox.com/lite/popinfo.php?lc_code=09A60&uneek=188117712

With this card I would be going DVI->VGA->Composite. I wonder if that's a good idea for image quality HMMMMMMMMMM Maybe I shoulda just gone with a GT then I would be VGA--> Composite

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Could I then use an HD Wonder with either one of these connections?

 

[Keysplayr]

In your position, I would call the manufacturer for your card and get the EXACT capabilities of it. The details that arent listed on the box.

 

[rbV5]

Your use of the term "composite" confuses the issue, composite generally refers to lowly RCA. Component (YPbPr) is what you mean. The Audio Authority 09A60 transcoder you linked to should work well with the 6800U to convert VGA to YPbPr to connect to your HD display, and Forceware drivers support custom timings, and infact have a built-in utility to configure the timings (if you can figure it out)

The HD Wonder is an OTA ATSC tuner, its not for playing games at all, just for tuning HD broadcasts. The ATI board would probably have been far easier to configure, and enjoys much better YPbPr driver support, however the 6800U should work for what you want to do with it, be prepared to spend some time configuring.

 

[Rage187]

Check out Anand's article

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
In your position, I would call the manufacturer for your card and get the EXACT capabilities of it. The details that arent listed on the box.

Good freaking luck. I called both nVidia and ATI and neither could answer questions about decode capabilities of their top of the line cards. Got some seriously non-answers. Even talked to some directors in the companies to help, signed up for dev programs, got a card (ATI as nVidia was not even available as a part at the end of June.) If it is new and the other guy has something similar, they don't seem to care about learning more about it.

 

[Heinrich]

Thanks guys - the term composite was just a brain fart, in my brain I know it's component.

I'm trying to justify breaking the seal on this $500 video card 6800U I have sitting here or sending it back for a PCI-E version which is really what I need, I think, for my upcoming A64 nforce4 system and then get an ATI dongle for my 9700/3200XP and put that in the HTPC room w/an HD Wonder.

 

[kki000]

Im sort of confused as to what you want your htpc todo exactly?

Either way,
1) You will never get hd resolution thru svideo. Not the cards fault, svideo isnt meant to do it.
2) Best connection between a hd set to a htpc is via dvi. If your hd set doesnt have a dvi port, then a vga or rgb is your best bet.

If all you have is a component connection, then i strongly suggest not using an htpc.

The benefit of htpc is that they are able to generate clock frequencies very close to the native rate of a video device. Similar to video scalers costing tens of thousands of dollars. You can achieve something called "pixel perfection", where you get a match dot for dot what your card is pushin to what video display is displaying. This can involve alot of fiddling with the service menu of your tv as well as alot of tweaking with video utils such as powerstrip.

The result is a pristine crstal clear picture.

Again you can't achieve this higher level pq using component.

Only situtauon that you might want a component connection to a htpc is if your interested in wmv9 files, where there is not much of a choice.

If your interested in hd time shifting, after market cards other than ati's can achieve that and it has its own component outs.

Please see this forums for more info.

AVS forum HTPC

Good luck.
K

 

[Acanthus]

The VGA to component adapters generally dont hurt image quality a lot, just make sure the resolution of your TV is supported by the adapter itself (a friend of mine got one that would do more than 800x600 on his 1080i TV.

 

[Heinrich]

Originally posted by: kki000
Im sort of confused as to what you want your htpc todo exactly?

.................

If all you have is a component connection, then i strongly suggest not using an htpc.
......
Good luck.
K

Thanks - I have a TIVO that I have hacked into so the time shifting for an HTPC would ONLY be for over the air HD signals. At some point I will get an HD TiVo and do the same thing, but then I can get HD local through HD Wonder.

I thought that I needed an HD Wonder to output HD signal level from games, but I see now that it's not involved in that step. I could also browse the web and so forth on my TV.

I'm very disappointed to hear your comments on component video. I know that HTPCs have been around for far longer than TVs with DVI or RGB or VGA inputs. I have a 60" Toshiba 61H70

http://tacpservice.toshiba.com/ConsumerProductSupport/Manuals/TV/435561h70.pdf

what is the best way to tell the highest res I could expect on games or web surfing via component cables

THANKS

 

[kki000]

indeed htpc have been around a long time, but used to be alot of tvs had rgb inputs. Thats how they have traditionally been used.

They are quarky to use at best and darn right frustrating sometimes.
The fact that many of their functions can now be duplicated in other more easier to use devices is what makes me say that.

Case in point, dvd players with dvi out with custom resolutions, reach about 95percent of the pq of a fully dekced out htpc for dvd movies.

I used to use and still own a hipix hdtv tuner card for my pc.
Back in 2001, it was the only game in town for recording hidef.

Since ive gotten my hd tivo.. wel theres no comparison. The hipix card is now for sale.
(Maybe we can take this off line if yer interested?)

Seriously the hipix can do some amazing things. Its recording software can detect the switch from 4:3 to 16:9 and uses that flag to NOT record any commercials. Its simply the coolest thing in the world.
So instead of 8.4 gigs per hr of hd w/ commercials, i only record the 16:9 hidef bits with no commercial.

The ati hd wonder sounds great, but i dont think it'll have that feature anytime soon.

I digress.

so back to the ati vs nvidia for htpc. If yer really limited to component, and want to play pc games on the big screen, i think the component dongle used on some ati cards might be a viable option. (Ive never used it so i cant comment any more)

Again if all yer intereted is in hidef recording, doesnt matter what card u use now, unless u want to use the ati hdtv card, in which case yer choice is obvious.


Pm me if yer interested in the card.
thnx,
K

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Heinrich
Thanks guys - the term composite was just a brain fart, in my brain I know it's component.

I forgive you. I do it all of the time.

 

[rbV5]

If all you have is a component connection, then i strongly suggest not using an htpc

Why not? I use YPbPr myself and it currently enjoys the best driver support, and is by far the easiest way to game on a big screen using an ATI card and CTS without a bunch of configuration issues. Sure pixel perfect DVI may be the best, but it is also the biggest PITA and support is iffy.

Component connectivity shouldn't keep you from using it in an HTPC at all, in fact its probably the easiest, most user friendly method available. I'd say the majority of HTPC's are analog units using s-video TV-out. Component YPbPr would be superior to all of those.

 

[Heinrich]

rb what rez do you get?

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Heinrich
rb what rez do you get?

What do you mean?

 

[Heinrich]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Heinrich
rb what rez do you get?

What do you mean?

Resolution - what resolution do you get on your HDTV

thanks

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Heinrich

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Heinrich
rb what rez do you get?

What do you mean?

Resolution - what resolution do you get on your HDTV

thanks

My display supports 480p and 1080i. Using Powerstrip I can configure a variety of resolutions to sync to those resolutions using Catalyst drivers. With Catalyst drivers, I use CTS and 1600x1200 desktop to remap games (at 1280x1024) to the Center of my display for big screen gaming. Using AnyDVD, I can watch DVD's upscaled to 1080i using YPbPr, or I can clone my desktop (set to 1080i), otherwise DVD playback is limited to 480p using YPbPr. I've not been able to figure out Catalysts custom timing support.That pretty much covers ATI I guess.

Using Forceware, Im not as familiar with the drivers, and basically stuck at 480p using VGA, I cannot get 1080i to sync. I also have a MyHD tuner in my NV rig, and it outputs 480p and 1080i, and it upscales 720p to 1080i for the OTA HD broadcasts, and using AnyDVD, it scales DVD's to 1080i nicely. I've not yet been able to figure out Forceware's custom timing support, but I haven't revisited it since I initially tried to set it up.

"basically", ATI's drivers are more mature for HD output, especially for gaming using YPbPr but my NV rig is adequate for everthing but gaming. I'm sure someone with better handle on forceware drivers could get it to work for them, if nothing else, using powerstrip.

 

[Heinrich]

That's great information and getting me excited. A bit more clarification on "CTS and 1600x1200 desktop to remap games (at 1280x1024) to the Center of my display" what is CTS and by remap I assume that the PC is running at 1600x1200 if you were to hook up a LCD or CRT but that it translates through to an HD res of 1280x1024? Not sure I fully understand. I see that your card is a 9700 Pro which can certainly handle 1600x1200 in all but the newest games but it tends to lag too much in City of Heroes at that level and Flight Sim 2004 w/2 monitors.

I think my 9600XT rig will be my first HTPC later this year with an HD Wonder attached as well - but the max it's comfortable with is a native 1280x1024

 

[Boogak]

Before I moved my HTPC over to a X1 projector connected thru standard VGA, I had it hooked up to my 43" Toshiba HD RPTV. Because my RPTV only had component connections, I bought a ATI HDTV VGA dongle for my 8500LE. I quickly gave up on it after I had issues with overscan and timings (this was about 2 years ago so newer drivers may have fixed this) and bought that Audio Authority transcoder instead. That thing works great, you'll need Powerstrip to set timings though (although that article on Anandtech does mention the new nVidia Forceware drivers support custom timings now). Picture quality is vastly superior to s-video, while it may not be as good as straight DVI, I was still very pleased with the picture quality.

I also had a MyHD PCI OTA HDTV tuner for the HTPC (which I still use) and it worked great with the transcoder. The only tricky part really is setting the timings so that you minimize overscan. So my advice is to go ahead and break open the seal of that bad boy and game to your heart's content It'll be HTPC ready when it's time to move up to PCI-E.

 

[rbV5]

what is CTS and by remap I assume that the PC is running at 1600x1200 if you were to hook up a LCD or CRT but that it translates through to an HD res of 1280x1024? Not sure I fully understand. I see that your card is a 9700 Pro which can certainly handle 1600x1200 in all but the newest games but it tends to lag too much in City of Heroes at that level and Flight Sim 2004 w/2 monitors.

1600x1200 is my desktop resolution. CTS (Center Timing Support) is an option using YPbPr output with the Catalyst drivers. When you have it enabled, it maps the PC output to the center of the display. By trying different resolutions, I was able to find that 1280x1024 maps nicely to my Widescreen with small black bars right and left, and none top and bottom. Why this is nice, is that now I can run virtually every game at 1280x1024 and it takes no configuring, no powerstrip, no custom timings (which my 9700pro handles fine <Doom3 I run at 1024x768 however, haven't tried it on the big screen yet&gt

Its nice for my setup because I use my rigs for more than HTPC, and actually game mostly in front of my 22" CRT. I hate spending hours configuring everything just to play an occasional game on the big screen and CTS just makes it easy.

YPbPr output still needs work however. Boogak gave a good recommendation with the Audio Authority Transcoder, which should work well with the 6800 and has a pretty fair sized user base. ATI has given driver options for CTS, custom timings for YPbPr, ect... but apparently have left it to the community to figure out how it all works. Thats where my frustration lies, and what keeps it from becoming a complete solution. It also makes it difficult to decide what to purchase, as there is no ideal solution.