Need better air cooling in my HAF912

[z1ggy]

My GPU is over heating while gaming. I'll likely need a new GPU but for now I'd like to try and lower my temps to try and extend the life if I can. I currently have a HAF912 with the stock fans (120mm, front and back).

The case can be fit with either 2x120 front or 1x200 front, 2x120mm top or 1x200mm top and a 1x120mm side. I was thinking about buying these Cooler Master 200mm Megaflow case fans to lower my temps. One on top as exhaust and one in front as an intake. I'd move the current 120mm to the side.

I'm wondering if these 200mm will actually fit in my case. The spec section of the fan doesn't list the HAF912 in it's case list and I've seen a few people commenting that the fans would not fit for them. I'm guessing the 120mm's will likely fit, but I'll end up with a super noisey case without much gain in flow. However, these Cooler Master 120mm come in a value 4 pack for $16, and would be all I need, as opposed to spending around $50 for the 200mm's.

What would be the best choice?

 

[Kenmitch]

Did you try some google fu to see it they will fit.

Quick search turned up this thread. http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1742590/haf-912-compatible-case-fans.html

And this link http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/landing/haf912/home.php?page=cooling

Along with this http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1040/pg3/cooler-master-haf-912-plus-case-review-external.html

I'd go with the 200mm as they move a lot of air and tend to be pretty quiet.

 

[dma0991]

When was the last time you disassembled that GTX460 and cleaned its fan and fins? If it worked fine before, it should work fine now, assuming that you did do some maintenance on it periodically. Try removing the heatsink, clean the fan blades and fins, and reapply fresh TIM.

 

[z1ggy]

When was the last time you disassembled that GTX460 and cleaned its fan and fins? If it worked fine before, it should work fine now, assuming that you did do some maintenance on it periodically. Try removing the heatsink, clean the fan blades and fins, and reapply fresh TIM.

It's worked fine, but this game I'm currently playing (world of tanks) is more demanding than counter strike or team fortress.

But I will take the fans apart to clean them anyway.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Side case fan will have the most direct impact http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Which-is-the-Best-Place-to-Install-a-Case-Fan-Part-2/1483

+1 on cleaning the GPU fan and fins. Should't need any extra fans with such and open case

 

[dma0991]

It's worked fine, but this game I'm currently playing (world of tanks) is more demanding than counter strike or team fortress.

But I will take the fans apart to clean them anyway.

CS and TF aren't what I consider games that are very demanding and would stress it at its maximum. I don't know how demanding WoT can be but I'd assume it wouldn't do as much as Crysis 3 or Battlefield 4 would.

If you have never disassembled it since you've bought it a few years back, there's a good chance that its choked with dust.

 

[z1ggy]

CS and TF aren't what I consider games that are very demanding and would stress it at its maximum. I don't know how demanding WoT can be but I'd assume it wouldn't do as much as Crysis 3 or Battlefield 4 would.

If you have never disassembled it since you've bought it a few years back, there's a good chance that its choked with dust.

Oh I know, they are pretty smooth. WoT I believe is fairly demanding as a guy on the PC thread said he can hear his fans on his 7990 spinning pretty fast while in a game.

I'll clean all the dust off the fan blades and lower my settings. If I still get issues, I'll buy a 200mm fan and place that up front and move my 120mm front so the side.

I think my fear fan might be clogged up too because I put my hands behind it and didn't really feel much flow coming out. Looks like it's time for a total cleaning of the entire case...

 

[z1ggy]

lol. Just checked my temps in game during World of Tanks. 99C GPU and 65C CPU.

Needless to say, I'm betting my fans are totally hosed. Will be taking apart tomorrow night to clean out.

 

[Charlie98]

PM inbound.

TBH, I had terrible problems with heat in my HAF922 case, and that was with 2x 200mm and 2x 120mm fans, as well as a CM 212+ push pull setup. Based on my experience, I think a case like the HAFs are TOO open and don't promote good airflow and circulation (that is to say.... Cool air in, hot air out) I moved to a much more closed case and my temperature problems pretty much disappeared... 2x 120mm fans in, 1x 120mm fan out in a closed case.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

PM inbound.

TBH, I had terrible problems with heat in my HAF922 case, and that was with 2x 200mm and 2x 120mm fans, as well as a CM 212+ push pull setup. Based on my experience, I think a case like the HAFs are TOO open and don't promote good airflow and circulation (that is to say.... Cool air in, hot air out) I moved to a much more closed case and my temperature problems pretty much disappeared... 2x 120mm fans in, 1x 120mm fan out in a closed case.

Well, there's a Woodie Allen joke. He's asked "Is sex dirty?" And he replies: "Sure. If you're doin' it right. . . "

I have three HAF 922s. they can be very cool and very quiet -- if you're doin' it right.

Case makers don't design a case for a single user; they present you a menu of options with a single case design. Choose fans and vents carefully, then block off those that are unused with black foam art-board (Michaels Arts & Crafts).

the Coolermaster fans are made to fit. There are other 200mm fans: Apevia :thumbsdown: is a bit more limp than the CM, and doesn't allow for switching of the LED lights. NZXT makes a 200mm model rated at 160 CFM, and reasonably quiet at top-end 1,300 RPM, but no LEDs. Worse: the NZXT mounting holes don't fit the CM HAF cases. [But you can use simple tricks to secure it, keep it from vibrating the side-panel, and leave a mounting that looks pretty neat.] BitFenix makes some 200mm LED fans in Red -- Green -- possibly Blue. Rated at about 140 CFM, fairly quiet, but again -- require some DIY efforts to mount in the HAF cases.

I'm sorry the OP has a 912 HAF. Some of the 922's have side-panel vents for 200mm fans. An NZXT 200mm side-panel fan blowing on the graphics card and other PCI-E cards would certainly do the trick.

 

[z1ggy]

My HAF 912 will still fit a 120mm...Better than nothing :-/

Generally speaking the HAF cases all get great reviews on newegg. I'm assuming these people are running tests to see what their temps are.

Also Charlie, you've got to take into account the air temp that you're actually pulling in as well. That will make a large difference..But it seems like in your example, switching cases helped.

I actually work with a bunch of engineers (I'm one myself) and I can ask them if theoretically more open space would be worse. Based on my limited knowledge, I would say it depends. It's more about how impeded the airflow is...and probably less about the "openness" of the case.

 

[Charlie98]

Also Charlie, you've got to take into account the air temp that you're actually pulling in as well. That will make a large difference..But it seems like in your example, switching cases helped.

I actually work with a bunch of engineers (I'm one myself) and I can ask them if theoretically more open space would be worse. Based on my limited knowledge, I would say it depends. It's more about how impeded the airflow is...and probably less about the "openness" of the case.

No, true that. There are a number of factors that affect how hot (or not...) your case or components run. The generic overview I have is, say in the case of my old HAF922... just pumping a bunch of air into the case isn't going to work as well as if it has a direction to go. Following that logic, I taped/covered up as many holes in the old case as I could... trying to leave only the fan inlets and outlets open; it helped if only marginally. I also considered flipping the top exhaust 200mm fan over... and turning it into an intake fan as well, but never did.

I also entertain the heretical thought that most CPU coolers like the 212, et al, are poorly designed and don't work as well as they could... but that is a topic for another thread.

 

[z1ggy]

No, true that. There are a number of factors that affect how hot (or not...) your case or components run. The generic overview I have is, say in the case of my old HAF922... just pumping a bunch of air into the case isn't going to work as well as if it has a direction to go. Following that logic, I taped/covered up as many holes in the old case as I could... trying to leave only the fan inlets and outlets open; it helped if only marginally. I also considered flipping the top exhaust 200mm fan over... and turning it into an intake fan as well, but never did.

I also entertain the heretical thought that most CPU coolers like the 212, et al, are poorly designed and don't work as well as they could... but that is a topic for another thread.

Exactly. You'll start to get flow that you don't really want. Instead of having a nice laminar flow (straight,even) you'll begin getting turbulant flow (swirling, uneven). It's interesting though that even with the 200mm's pushing over 100CFM, that the flow might have still been bad...

Anyway, cleaning my GPU fan and case fans out tonight hopefully that helps.

Edit2: Read the 212+ thread. Has the gap issue been resolved with the 212 EVO? Also, I believe something like the H80i or one of those 120mm closed loop solutions would probably give you better temps than what you were reporting. I'm half considering buying one if I end up dropping in a new i5 and OCing that.

Edit: Talked with our resident thermal guy. He said it's really more about the path of the flow as opposed to how "open" or "closed" the case is. Blocked out ways for air to escape like you did is one way though to try and help improve the path by not letting random air escape. It probably didn't do much because not much air was escaping. He also mentioned that for 2 cases with the exact same ambient temp, exact same fan set up, same air path with only the volume of cases being different, that the case with more internal air (larger volume) should cool better because it will have more flow.

 

[dma0991]

Exactly. You'll start to get flow that you don't really want. Instead of having a nice laminar flow (straight,even) you'll begin getting turbulant flow (swirling, uneven).

The arrangement of a typical case won't allow you to control whether there would be a laminar flow or turbulent. Without a focused flow fan, the air won't be moving in a straight column, more likely to be turbulent. But even if you did use a focused flow fan, they won't move straight due to being impeded (eg. front fans blocked by HDD cage).

You can control the flow, given its ducted, straight end to end like a server rack case, or more importantly, pressurized. For a typical case, its more important to care about its pressurization as it impacts the rate of exchange of cool air with hot air. Assuming you've created positive pressure in the case, the hot air will be more likely to exit where there are holes/perforation and it will exit as the external atmospheric pressure and case pressure balances itself.

That being said, if case airflow is sufficient, it will have very little impact on cooling performance than of having a better CPU/GPU heatsink.

 

[z1ggy]

The arrangement of a typical case won't allow you to control whether there would be a laminar flow or turbulent. Without a focused flow fan, the air won't be moving in a straight column, more likely to be turbulent. But even if you did use a focused flow fan, they won't move straight due to being impeded (eg. front fans blocked by HDD cage).

You can control the flow, given its ducted, straight end to end like a server rack case, or more importantly, pressurized. For a typical case, its more important to care about its pressurization as it impacts the rate of exchange of cool air with hot air. Assuming you've created positive pressure in the case, the hot air will be more likely to exit where there are holes/perforation and it will exit as the external atmospheric pressure and case pressure balances itself.

That being said, if case airflow is sufficient, it will have very little impact on cooling performance than of having a better CPU/GPU heatsink.

Well said. I'm an EE, so I only really understand the basics of thermaldynamics. Conduction is a much simplier problem for me as opposed to convection.

At the end of the day, when I do build a new computer, I might really consider going water. Although a custom loop seems like a lot of work and those closed loop ones seems pretty nice. Water is such a better way to remove heat.

 

[dma0991]

At the end of the day, when I do build a new computer, I might really consider going water. Although a custom loop seems like a lot of work and those closed loop ones seems pretty nice. Water is such a better way to remove heat.

I would recommend going with a custom loop in your next build if you have the cash. Not too difficult to create a single CPU and single GPU loop. The temperature reduction of watercooling for GPU is well worth the effort, and lower noise as well if done properly.

 

[Charlie98]

Edit2: Read the 212+ thread. Has the gap issue been resolved with the 212 EVO? Also, I believe something like the H80i or one of those 120mm closed loop solutions would probably give you better temps than what you were reporting. I'm half considering buying one if I end up dropping in a new i5 and OCing that.

I don't think so... and it would be so easy to fix. CM, for example, has their V8 (etc) series and they sort of address it, but at the cost of a huge, hunky cooler. The Arctic Freezer series seems to have best addressed this issue with a full fan shroud and closed heat exchanger ends (vs. using duct tape D: ) and I'm seriously considering swapping out the 212+ on my i5 for one. If I do, you know I'm going to run some CPU test and document the temp differences.

Edit: Talked with our resident thermal guy. He said it's really more about the path of the flow as opposed to how "open" or "closed" the case is. Blocked out ways for air to escape like you did is one way though to try and help improve the path by not letting random air escape. It probably didn't do much because not much air was escaping. He also mentioned that for 2 cases with the exact same ambient temp, exact same fan set up, same air path with only the volume of cases being different, that the case with more internal air (larger volume) should cool better because it will have more flow.

No matter the volume of the case, the flow is the same based on the amount of air being pumped into the case. A 5L case vs. a 10L case... the amount of air introduced into the case is the same based on the CFM of the intake fans; the only caveat to that would be, as dma noted, obstructions and flow restriction making it less efficient.

 

[z1ggy]

I would recommend going with a custom loop in your next build if you have the cash. Not too difficult to create a single CPU and single GPU loop. The temperature reduction of watercooling for GPU is well worth the effort, and lower noise as well if done properly.

I have no experience doing that and it makes me nervous :-/

If I kept this case I'd consider an h55 paired with a Kraken G10 for the GPU and an h80i for the CPU. If I got a full size tower, I'd probably put the h80i on the GPU and get a Kraken x60 on the CPU.

Got any good links with lots of pics for doing a custom loop setup?

 

[dma0991]

Got any good links with lots of pics for doing a custom loop setup?

Just do a search about it. There should be plenty of forum general guides on making your own. The thing is that almost every build can be an unique arrangement of an array of different parts that would still consist of a waterblock, radiator, pump and reservoir. There are build logs that you can search from OCN or bit-tech. Heck, when you're ready to build one, you could start a thread here to ask for help and there would be plenty of members and mods who are willing to pitch in some of their knowledge.

But if you want to put less thought into the design and the choice of parts, there are kits that contains all the main components for a simple CPU loop, which can be extended to support a GPU waterblock with the correct radiator size(> 360mm). Not sure if instruction manual is provided but shouldn't be difficult with some basic plumbing skills.

 

[z1ggy]

Just do a search about it. There should be plenty of forum general guides on making your own. The thing is that almost every build can be an unique arrangement of an array of different parts that would still consist of a waterblock, radiator, pump and reservoir. There are build logs that you can search from OCN or bit-tech. Heck, when you're ready to build one, you could start a thread here to ask for help and there would be plenty of members and mods who are willing to pitch in some of their knowledge.

But if you want to put less thought into the design and the choice of parts, there are kits that contains all the main components for a simple CPU loop, which can be extended to support a GPU waterblock with the correct radiator size(> 360mm). Not sure if instruction manual is provided but shouldn't be difficult with some basic plumbing skills.

Yeah a quick search returned two really good write ups. One done here on AT and another Here. The AT one was more custom and cooled two GPU while the second is a much simpler setup.

If anybody is interested, here is the one from AT. Has a tab on the bottom for you choose what page you'd like to read. I found the setup on AT to be fairly work intensive while the other one I read seemed pretty easy for being a custom loop. Guess it's becuase the one on AT cooled a cpu and two gpu's. I also imagine if he did some loops in parallel instead of entirely in series, his temps might have been better.

Cliffs for the AT article:
-CPU water cooling didn't provide substancially more cooling than a good HSF (in this case, Noctua U14 I believe)
-GPU water cooling very effective; halfed the temps under load

I found reading some of the comments helpful too to understanding maybe why these test results seemed odd. Interesting to me that air cooling the CPU in this case was almost as good as water. I'll have to read more articles.

 

[Skott]

I have built two rigs using the HAF 912. One has the FX6300 in it and the other an i5 2400. In both cases I did the cooling the exact same way. I put a 200mm fan in the front. A 200mm fan on top. I took the 140mm front fan that came with the case and moved it to the side. Front and side fans are intakes and top and rear fans are exhaust. Makes for a very nice cool case. You do have to buy the CM 200mm fans but worth every penny IMHO.

My one and only gripe about the HAF 912 is that there is no usb 3.0 on the front of the case. The two usb ports are 2.0 not 3.0. Neither case had a after market hsf. I used the stock hsf on each build. If I were to add a after market cpu cooler I'd get a H60 or a kuhler 620 and put the rad on the rear exhaust fan. The top 200mm fan would be enough to suck hot air out. That's the cheapest quality way to go without losing the top 200mm fan and would do the job nicely. You could go full water cooling but that's more expensive and involved. The HAF 912 is a very nice case.

 

[dma0991]

Cliffs for the AT article:
-CPU water cooling didn't provide substancially more cooling than a good HSF (in this case, Noctua U14 I believe)
-GPU water cooling very effective; halfed the temps under load

The CPU temps are too high. I suspect that there's an anomaly to how its being implemented. Take for example, I have a Core i5 3570K @ 4.5GHz and it typically runs at a maximum of 75C when running Prime95/Intel Burn Test. My temp delta is only about 40-45C as my ambient is typically 30C and above.

There aren't enough radiators to accommodate two GTX780s and a Core i7 4770K, which is still notoriously using the crappy TIM since Ivy Bridge. The GPU temps are lower but the amount of heat it needs to dissipate is still too much for a 240mm + 360mm, and indirectly affects the CPU temps since they are in a single loop. There's also the possibility that the pump isn't strong enough to handle the loop's restricted flow.

 

[z1ggy]

The CPU temps are too high. I suspect that there's an anomaly to how its being implemented. Take for example, I have a Core i5 3570K @ 4.5GHz and it typically runs at a maximum of 75C when running Prime95/Intel Burn Test. My temp delta is only about 40-45C as my ambient is typically 30C and above.

There aren't enough radiators to accommodate two GTX780s and a Core i7 4770K, which is still notoriously using the crappy TIM since Ivy Bridge. The GPU temps are lower but the amount of heat it needs to dissipate is still too much for a 240mm + 360mm, and indirectly affects the CPU temps since they are in a single loop. There's also the possibility that the pump isn't strong enough to handle the loop's restricted flow.

Yeah I felt like the set up wasn't as good as it could be. I kept researching and saw a similar hardware setup, except the user had a 1080mm rad and a 240mm rad. There was also a seperate pump so I'm guessing that was pretty beefy. Looked very costly though..I'm guessing that set up would run you $600+.

 

[z1ggy]

So I just cleaned out my case. Got dirt out of my fans and heatsinks. Helped a bit but not much. Running at 80C under full load now instead of 99C. :-/

Played some Counter strike , just now.. (less intense game) and was stable at 63C. Im hoping the new fans I'm getting will help me get down another 5C or so..I don't really want to be running at 80C.

 

[dma0991]

80C is fine for a GTX460 if its using reference design blower heatsink. It won't run as cool as a CPU nor would it need to.